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Posted: 1/9/2005 10:23:37 AM EDT
Let police carry concealed weapons


There's an issue brewing on concealed-carry permits in Wisconsin that we think even the most ardent gun-control advocates can agree on. It involves law-enforcement officers.

Last year Congress passed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active-duty and retired police offices to carry concealed weapons as long as they're in good standing on the force, haven't retired because of mental defect, and other common-sense standards.

In Wisconsin, the federal law isn't a problem for active-duty officers, who are allowed to carry concealed weapons if they're authorized to do so by their individual department or agency. But retired officers "must annually meet the state's firearm training and qualification standards for active officers," according to the federal statute. And therein lies the rub.

Wisconsin doesn't have a statewide standard for firearms training for active or retired law-enforcement officers. When they're first hired, Wisconsin police officers, game wardens and others authorized to carry a weapon are required to take a 48-hour firearms class offered by the Wisconsin Law Enforcement Standards Board. After that, it's up to the individual departments to set standards.

To her credit, Wisconsin Attorney General Peggy Lautenschlager has pointed out this statutory discrepancy to the governor and senior legislators and noted that they need to craft legislation giving the Standards Board, which she oversees, the authority to set up state firearms standards for law enforcement officers.

While we typically favor local government control, we think the Wisconsin Legislature would be wise to give the Standards Board the authority to do this. In supporting these legislative changes, we join the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, the state's largest police organization, with more than 10,000 members in more than 375 agencies.

"Having a uniform standard is better than not having one and letting the court's ferret out the case law," WPPA lobbyist Jim Palmer told us in a recent telephone interview.

We agree.

It's a good sign that the attorney general has already formed a committee to begin exploring how to set up state standards. We can save her some time by directing her to the National Rifle Association. While the powerful Washington lobbying group is often pilloried for its efforts to derail the assault-weapon ban and other gun-control legislation, it's also the largest gun-safety education organization in the country.

"Over 2,000 public and private law enforcement and military instructors received NRA firearms training or attended NRA-organized armorer schools in 2004," said Ron Kirkland, director of the NRA's Law Enforcement Activities Division.

Since 1960, the NRA has trained more than 50,000 law enforcement firearm instructors in police departments and the military. Today, more than 12,000 NRA-certified instructors are training police officers nationwide.

In other words, this is the branch of the NRA that everyone should be able to support. Wisconsin residents would also be wise to support legislation to give police officers, game wardens and others the right to carry concealed weapons. It's the least we owe these people who put their lives on the line for us every day.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:48:22 AM EDT
Retired cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:57:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 10:58:59 AM EDT by olyarms]

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Retired cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.


+1

Edit: I don't see the big deal. Why wouldn't you just get a CCW in the states you travel. Being a LEO would no doubt make it a snap.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:07:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.



There you go.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:07:38 AM EDT
Most cops CCW anyway.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:26:40 AM EDT
This does not surprise me from the anti-gun community. Here in the Peoples' Republik of Kali-fonria, the active-duty LEOs are exempt from the AW bans because the anti-guners needed their support for the law to pass, well at least from their CLEOs anyways.

And also there is more practical side benefit for active and retired LE CCWs, in some of the states where CCWs are impossible for the proliteriates to get, the LEOs can moonlight as plain clothes security guards. A nice little racket.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:28:57 AM EDT
Retired LEOs were also exempted from the CA AWB until that was declared unconstitutional in Fed court.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:41:13 AM EDT
Remember that sometimes you're dealing with a segment that believes that even on-the-job LEO's shouldn't carry. ( "English style")
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:45:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:46:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Hell no. If cops want to carry off-duty, let them get a permit. If no permit is available in that state, let them lobby to legalize concealed carry.



That is what they are trying to do- FOR THEMSELVEs.

Not everybody.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:53:40 AM EDT
CRC where did you find this???
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:56:12 AM EDT
Google news.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:56:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Wisconsin residents would also be wise to support legislation to give police officers, game wardens and others the right to carry concealed weapons. It's the least we owe these people who put their lives on the line for us every day.



Sorry I have just as much right to defend myself as any LEO does. I just can't support a law that only covers a small part of the people.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:03:40 PM EDT
There was an article in an IL paper today, basically saying the same things, but adding interviews with currently employed local chiefs of police. Some of them were actually against former officers carrying. It just goes to show that once you leave law enforcement or the military, the government and liberals no longer trust you with firearms anymore than the person on the street.

I, like most people, am disappointed that this legislation didn't include everyone, but I guess you've got to do things one step at a time.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:06:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Retired cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.



so should off duty cops, especially off duty cops on personal business in another state
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:28:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:31:09 PM EDT
Since when did the anti-gunners ever let reason and common sense stand in their way?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:50:18 PM EDT

Even anti-gunners should support the right of cops to carry concealed weapons

Some don’t!

Ted Kennedy bitterly fought the recent nationwide CCW law for LEO’s, claiming it was “a step in the wrong direction” (and I’m hoping his worries become justified!).

And the International Association of Chiefs of Police (which is very anti-gun) also opposed it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:02:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
There was an article in an IL paper today, basically saying the same things, but adding interviews with currently employed local chiefs of police. Some of them were actually against former officers carrying. It just goes to show that once you leave law enforcement or the military, the government and liberals no longer trust you with firearms anymore than the person on the street.


Remember most CLEOs are closer to politicians than to professional LE. Take LAPD chief Bill Bratton, he was nominated by the Los Angeles Mayor Jim Hahn and approved by the Los Angeles city council.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:10:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
There was an article in an IL paper today, basically saying the same things, but adding interviews with currently employed local chiefs of police. Some of them were actually against former officers carrying. It just goes to show that once you leave law enforcement or the military, the government and liberals no longer trust you with firearms anymore than the person on the street.



Remember most CLEOs are closer to politicians than to professional LE. Take LAPD chief Bill Bratton, he was nominated by the Los Angeles Mayor Jim Hahn and approved by the Los Angeles city council.



+1. Most folks see blue, and don't discern between between "real" cops (on the street) and "poser" cops (behind a political desk). Nearly all of the bored "deer in headlights" LEO's standing behind Clinton during his various "acts against violence" (gun banning / rights infringement) were ordered to appear by their chiefs, as a public relations gig.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:14:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Wisconsin residents would also be wise to support legislation to give police officers, game wardens and others the right to carry concealed weapons. It's the least we owe these people who put their lives on the line for us every day.



Sorry I have just as much right to defend myself as any LEO does. I just can't support a law that only covers a small part of the people.



+1

I want to be a little more vocal, but after my 50 cal rant, I'll control myself. If I can't have it, then the cops shouldn't have it either. I have just as much right to self defense as they do. If cops are pushing this, they are just showing another example of how "elitest" they are.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:26:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Retired cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.


+1
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:28:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 5:29:31 PM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Retired cops should have the same rights and privledges as the general populace. They are not a seperate class of citizen.



+1!!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:36:26 PM EDT
Even anti-gunners should support the right of cops to carry concealed weapons


Even cops should support the right of citizens to carry concealed weapons.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:52:07 PM EDT
If everyone in a single state woke up to find that today they could carry a firearm counseled everyone on this site would cheer with glee. If all the members of our armed forces came home today and found that they could carry a firearm counseled based upon their training and job, we would all again cheer.

Today another door is opening not just at a state level but also at a national level. I would like to think that this too would be something that we at this site would all cheer about. Once the door nationally is opened for one it will be very difficult to exclude another group or person. Slam this door for one is like slamming it for all.

I am a police officer and believe in a national CCW for everyone. I will not set my pride or limit my view to be close-minded. I will cheer no matter what person, group or state passes laws that enable someone to carry a firearm counseled.

Remember “Divided we all Fall
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:07:07 PM EDT
the same cops that want to carry CCW when they retired are probably the same ones that support the AWB, fuck 'em. They can buy a black rifle if they feel threatened, if not outlawed in their own state/city by their own stupidity yet.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:03:56 PM EDT
I think that there might be a misconception about a regular police officer and the politically appointed chief in a police department. The chief is appointed by a politician and is one himself.
A police officer is the average guy on the street that decided to put his butt where his mouth is. Most street officers have served their time in the military or are currently in a reserve or guard unit. If you think that most police officers wanted the AWB you are not getting the correct information again. If you think that you most police officers do not want CCW then again you are you are not getting the correct information.
If you think that after a police officer after he retires is then never faced with the same people he spent his 20 plus years arresting then again you are not getting the correct information
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