Posted: 6/27/2012 3:54:22 AM EDT
| I am the executor of a will. There are firearms involved in the estate and I am fairly certain that some of the heirs are convicted felons how do I determine if they can legally inherit the firearms? |
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I am the executor of a will. There are firearms involved in the estate and I am fairly certain that some of the heirs are convicted felons how do I determine if they can legally inherit the firearms? <––––FFL but not an attorney If they are convicted felons: only under extremely rare circumstances do convicted felons get their rights to possess firearms restored. Remember, as a nonlicensee, when transferring a firearm to another resident of your state you cannot have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. If you believe the person is a felon or prohibited person.......you violate Federal law by transferring the firearm to them. According to ATF, the bequest of a firearm is one instance which does not require the person acquiring the firearm to complete a Form 4473 and undergo an FBI NICS check. If they are residents of the state where the firearms are located, they simply come pick them up from the executor. If they are residents of another state they are allowed under Federal law to come and pick them up as well....in person. If they do not come and take possession in person, the transfer is like any other interstate transfer of a firearm: they have to be shipped to a licensed dealer in the heirs state of residence. The dealer will have them complete a 4473 and NICS. You could have the heirs pick up their guns at a local gunshop, where the dealer would have them do a 4473/NICS............and its off your hands. Make it clear that they will have to provide ID and undergo a criminal background check when they pick up the guns. |
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Tom, please quote Fed Law/Reg that requires an FFL for interstate inheritance transfers. What I've read (BATFE Ref Guide 2005) says NO FFL required. This is exceptionally important in MA as incoming to an FFL means almost no handguns (even heirlooms) are "transferable" by a MA Dealer per MGL. However MGL allows direct transfer on inheritance with no FFL involved. |
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Tom, please quote Fed Law/Reg that requires an FFL for interstate inheritance transfers. What I've read (BATFE Ref Guide 2005) says NO FFL required. This is exceptionally important in MA as incoming to an FFL means almost no handguns (even heirlooms) are "transferable" by a MA Dealer per MGL. However MGL allows direct transfer on inheritance with no FFL involved. Any firearm shipped across state lines is an interstate transfer of a firearm. With the exceptions of: 1. shipping your own firearm, addressed to yourself, to another state for hunting or other lawful purpose. 2. The return of a repaired or replacement firearm from a manufacturer to the customer § 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
top No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section: (a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of §478.96(c) and (c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with the provisions of §§478.30 and 478.97. [T.D. ATF–270, 53 FR 10493, Mar. 31, 1988] Example: Grandfather dies in Texas, leaving all of his firearms to a grandson who lives in Vermont. 1. The grandson can come to Texas to take possession. He can take them back to Vermont any way he wants, including mailing or shipping them to his address in Vermont. 2. The grandson chooses not to come to Texas, so the executor can ship the firearms to a licensed dealer in Vermont, who will transfer the firearms to the grandson via 4473. 3. if the executor (or any other person) ships the firearms directly to the grandson they are commiting a felony (interstate transfer of a firearm). 4. As stated above in 478.29(b) the firearm must be "lawful for the person to purchase or possess" in their state. If a Glock 19, AR15, AK, etc. is not lawful for the person to purchase or possess in the heirs state of residence they CANNOT take possession. |
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Quoted: I am the executor of a will. There are firearms involved in the estate and I am fairly certain that some of the heirs are convicted felons how do I determine if they can legally inherit the firearms? The will should give you the power to sell them and distribute the cash from the sale. |
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I am the executor of a will. There are firearms involved in the estate and I am fairly certain that some of the heirs are convicted felons how do I determine if they can legally inherit the firearms? The will should give you the power to sell them and distribute the cash from the sale. Not really... |
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Tom, please quote Fed Law/Reg that requires an FFL for interstate inheritance transfers. What I've read (BATFE Ref Guide 2005) says NO FFL required. This is exceptionally important in MA as incoming to an FFL means almost no handguns (even heirlooms) are "transferable" by a MA Dealer per MGL. However MGL allows direct transfer on inheritance with no FFL involved. If you're reading the guide then it's on page 7. § 922(a)(2) prohibits shipments across state lines to a non-FFL and then it lists exceptions (e.g. a gunsmith ships a firearm back to the owner after a repair); inheritances are not included in these exceptions. § 922(a)(3) and § 922(a)(5) cover transfers, transports, sales, trades, etc. to non-licensees and inheritances are included in the exceptions. So the way I read it: - Heir travels to executor and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor travels to heir and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor ships gun directly to non-licensee heir: illegal. Stupid? Yes. But I didn't write the danged law. |
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Tom, please quote Fed Law/Reg that requires an FFL for interstate inheritance transfers. What I've read (BATFE Ref Guide 2005) says NO FFL required. This is exceptionally important in MA as incoming to an FFL means almost no handguns (even heirlooms) are "transferable" by a MA Dealer per MGL. However MGL allows direct transfer on inheritance with no FFL involved. If you're reading the guide then it's on page 7. § 922(a)(2) prohibits shipments across state lines to a non-FFL and then it lists exceptions (e.g. a gunsmith ships a firearm back to the owner after a repair); inheritances are not included in these exceptions. § 922(a)(3) and § 922(a)(5) cover transfers, transports, sales, trades, etc. to non-licensees and inheritances are included in the exceptions. So the way I read it: - Heir travels to executor and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor travels to heir and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor ships gun directly to non-licensee heir: illegal. Stupid? Yes. But I didn't write the danged law. I believe you're reading it wrong. When it says "transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State" it is referring to the state of residence of the recipient. |
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Tom, please quote Fed Law/Reg that requires an FFL for interstate inheritance transfers. What I've read (BATFE Ref Guide 2005) says NO FFL required. This is exceptionally important in MA as incoming to an FFL means almost no handguns (even heirlooms) are "transferable" by a MA Dealer per MGL. However MGL allows direct transfer on inheritance with no FFL involved. If you're reading the guide then it's on page 7. § 922(a)(2) prohibits shipments across state lines to a non-FFL and then it lists exceptions (e.g. a gunsmith ships a firearm back to the owner after a repair); inheritances are not included in these exceptions. § 922(a)(3) and § 922(a)(5) cover transfers, transports, sales, trades, etc. to non-licensees and inheritances are included in the exceptions. So the way I read it: - Heir travels to executor and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor travels to heir and gun is handed over: legal. - Executor ships gun directly to non-licensee heir: illegal. Stupid? Yes. But I didn't write the danged law. I believe you're reading it wrong. When it says "transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State" it is referring to the state of residence of the recipient. Nope. As Bubbles posted: "- Executor travels to heir and gun is handed over: legal.". What you are missing is that Federal law prohibits the interstate shipment of a firearm to a nonlicensee*. While the heir could legally receive it, the shipment across state lines is a violation by the sender. *the only exceptions being the return of a repaired or replaced fiirearm by a manufacturer to the owner and shipping your own firearm addressed to yourself in another state for hunting or other lawful purpose. |
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DogtownTom, Your replies had me wondering if I was wrong and I don't want to give out bad info, so I sent a query to a BATFE agent that I know personally (he was a very young kid, Son of a local police chief who was my instructor in the police academy ~30 years ago). Here's his response (with his name, title {he's in management at BATFE} and Email redacted): Hi Len, There is nothing in the regulations that would prohibit the executor/ executrix from shipping the firearms to the heir. However, by using contract carriers such as FedEx and UPS, the executor/ executrix would have to comply with their company policies. My understanding is that UPS and FedEx will not ship directly to unlicensed individuals- they will only ship to FFLs. Because handguns are involved, a contract carrier must be used to ship the firearms. Due to the stringent nature of MA laws, I would recommend the executor conduct research on which contract carriers will permit direct shipment to unlicensed individuals. Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any additional questions. <name redacted> Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives <title redacted> |
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DogtownTom, Your replies had me wondering if I was wrong and I don't want to give out bad info, so I sent a query to a BATFE agent that I know personally (he was a very young kid, Son of a local police chief who was my instructor in the police academy ~30 years ago). Here's his response (with his name, title {he's in management at BATFE} and Email redacted): Hi Len,
There is nothing in the regulations that would prohibit the executor/ executrix from shipping the firearms to the heir. However, by using contract carriers such as FedEx and UPS, the executor/ executrix would have to comply with their company policies. My understanding is that UPS and FedEx will not ship directly to unlicensed individuals- they will only ship to FFLs.
Because handguns are involved, a contract carrier must be used to ship the firearms. Due to the stringent nature of MA laws, I would recommend the executor conduct research on which contract carriers will permit direct shipment to unlicensed individuals. Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any additional questions.
<name redacted> Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives <title redacted> Ask him if he would put that in writing (that a nonlicensee can ship interstate to another nonlicensee). Not that I distrust you or your friend, but verbal interpretations are worthless. I find it puzzling that ATF regs clearly state that a nonlicensee cannot ship a firearm interstate to a nonlicensee, yet he thinks no such regulation exists. I've dealt with more than a couple of "my IOI/agent/BATF told me _________" stories in the last year. When I asked for written verification only one would provide it. In the other, the question/situation left out enough facts that the IOI was giving an interpretation based on incomplete information. The IOI called the other dealer back and set him straight. |
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DogtownTom, Your replies had me wondering if I was wrong and I don't want to give out bad info, so I sent a query to a BATFE agent that I know personally (he was a very young kid, Son of a local police chief who was my instructor in the police academy ~30 years ago). Here's his response (with his name, title {he's in management at BATFE} and Email redacted): Hi Len,
There is nothing in the regulations that would prohibit the executor/ executrix from shipping the firearms to the heir. However, by using contract carriers such as FedEx and UPS, the executor/ executrix would have to comply with their company policies. My understanding is that UPS and FedEx will not ship directly to unlicensed individuals- they will only ship to FFLs.
Because handguns are involved, a contract carrier must be used to ship the firearms. Due to the stringent nature of MA laws, I would recommend the executor conduct research on which contract carriers will permit direct shipment to unlicensed individuals. Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any additional questions.
<name redacted> Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives <title redacted> Ask him if he would put that in writing (that a nonlicensee can ship interstate to another nonlicensee). Not that I distrust you or your friend, but verbal interpretations are worthless. I find it puzzling that ATF regs clearly state that a nonlicensee cannot ship a firearm interstate to a nonlicensee, yet he thinks no such regulation exists. I've dealt with more than a couple of "my IOI/agent/BATF told me _________" stories in the last year. When I asked for written verification only one would provide it. In the other, the question/situation left out enough facts that the IOI was giving an interpretation based on incomplete information. The IOI called the other dealer back and set him straight. The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. |
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DogtownTom, What I cut and pasted was from an Email direct from said agent. Thus, I do have it in "writing". I understand that agents sometimes give out wrong info. I also understand two things about addressing the Tech Branch with this question (I've considered it): - They sometimes change their minds (shoestring machine gun anyone), and/or - They may totally ignore the request for clarification. |
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The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. Really? The "exception" is the heir may RECEIVE an interstate shipment directly...........nothing in the regulations says the shipper is exempt from the requirements of the GCA. If you've found that exemption please post it. |
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The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. Really? The "exception" is the heir may RECEIVE an interstate shipment directly...........nothing in the regulations says the shipper is exempt from the requirements of the GCA. If you've found that exemption please post it. It could be that the agent is interpreting the illusory exemption to recieve as creating a right to ship (whether or not that's allowed). |
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DogtownTom,
What I cut and pasted was from an Email direct from said agent. Thus, I do have it in "writing". I understand that agents sometimes give out wrong info. I also understand two things about addressing the Tech Branch with this question (I've considered it): - They sometimes change their minds (shoestring machine gun anyone), and/or - They may totally ignore the request for clarification. I would want it on DoJ letterhead with the stamp of approval from the ATF Legal division, not simply an email from "an agent". And I have been asked to help with estates often enough I should just go ahead and submit a letter officially to the ATF requesting clarification. |
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The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. Really? The "exception" is the heir may RECEIVE an interstate shipment directly...........nothing in the regulations says the shipper is exempt from the requirements of the GCA. If you've found that exemption please post it. 27CFR §478.29(a) authorizes the unlicensed individual to accept the firearm in their State of residence. 27CFR §478.30(a) authorizes the unlicensed executor to ship to firearm to a benificiary in another State. Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION Subpart C—Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions § 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees. No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section: (a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence; and |
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The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. Really? The "exception" is the heir may RECEIVE an interstate shipment directly...........nothing in the regulations says the shipper is exempt from the requirements of the GCA. If you've found that exemption please post it. 27CFR §478.29(a) authorizes the unlicensed individual to accept the firearm in their State of residence. 27CFR §478.30(a) authorizes the unlicensed executor to ship to firearm to a benificiary in another State. Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION Subpart C—Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions § 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees. No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section: (a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence; and That is NOT permission to ship or mail the firearm interstate. If you'll refer back to Bubbles examples above, she addresses how an executor can "transfer, transport or deliver" firearms to an heir. |
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The shipment to a unlicensed individual of a bequest is an exception to the prohibition against shipping to an unlicensed person. Federal regulations are full of prohibitions and exceptions to those prohibitions. Really? The "exception" is the heir may RECEIVE an interstate shipment directly...........nothing in the regulations says the shipper is exempt from the requirements of the GCA. If you've found that exemption please post it. 27CFR §478.29(a) authorizes the unlicensed individual to accept the firearm in their State of residence. 27CFR §478.30(a) authorizes the unlicensed executor to ship to firearm to a benificiary in another State. Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION Subpart C—Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions § 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees. No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section: (a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence; and That is NOT permission to ship or mail the firearm interstate. If you'll refer back to Bubbles examples above, she addresses how an executor can "transfer, transport or deliver" firearms to an heir. What do you think shipping is if not transportation? Here is a definition from the Code of Federal Regulations: "Transports or transportation means the movement of property and loading, unloading, or storage incidental to the movement." A transporter such as UPS transports property. 478.30(a) does not specify any particular method of transportation. |