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Posted: 8/21/2017 5:25:58 PM EDT
I've always wanted an Enfield, and found a local deal....it's a Savage built rifle, supposedly US, but I know nothing about these rifles or what to even look for.  Numbers all match, and bore looks good, but is there a way to check the muzzle like you would a Garand?  Anything particular to look for?

Any guesses on a fair value?Attachment Attached File

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Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:26:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:27:14 PM EDT
[#2]
tag and bump

I don't know much about enfields, but like to learn
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:28:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Check and see if the other parts are "S" marked for Savage as that will have an effect on value.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:29:22 PM EDT
[#4]
U. S. Property?  So aught-six instead of .303?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:29:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Check and see if the other parts are "S" marked for Savage as that will have an effect on value.
View Quote
Excuse my ignorance, but which parts?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:30:24 PM EDT
[#6]
probably pay $350 - $400 for it in my area
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:30:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
U. S. Property?  So aught-six instead of .303?
View Quote
Nope it's 303, it's a land lease gun.

Rough guess on value is $350 but check gunbroker to be sure
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:31:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Excuse my ignorance, but which parts?
View Quote
The metal ones.  Most of them individually.  The more the better.

Just looking at your pictures I'd give $300 for that and shoot the shit out of it. 

None of these Enfields will be 30-06.  That's P14/P17s.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:32:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Ten years ago I'd have said $150.

Today, I'd check gunbroker and see what has bids and where they're at.  I'd guess $250-400 range.  (Just checked GB, looks like that's right for non-sporters... and sporterized ones get ignored.)


A lot of milsurp has just dried up, as there were limited amounts.  Prices have adjusted.


As far as shootability, the idea always used to be to take a round and put it nose-down in the chamber and see if it falls all the way in or not, and that would give you some ballpark of whether the bore is shot out; though I've heard that has mixed results.

Checking head space is important with old Enfields.


ETA: Pakistani ammo sucks.  It sometimes has hangfires, and occasionally also goes boom.  There's new ammo to be had if you want to shoot it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:33:38 PM EDT
[#10]
You might also ask in the Armory/Curios & Relics section here if you haven't already.

Eta: Damm I am slow in the 4 minutes to type it you got 3 answers.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:36:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ten years ago I'd have said $150.

Today, I'd check gunbroker and see what has bids and where they're at.  I'd guess $250-400 range.  (Just checked GB, looks like that's right for non-sporters... and sporterized ones get ignored.)


A lot of milsurp has just dried up, as there were limited amounts.  Prices have adjusted.


As far as shootability, the idea always used to be to take a round and put it nose-down in the chamber and see if it falls all the way in or not, and that would give you some ballpark of whether the bore is shot out; though I've heard that has mixed results.

Checking head space is important with old Enfields.


ETA: Pakistani ammo sucks.  It sometimes has hangfires, and occasionally also goes boom.  There's new ammo to be had if you want to shoot it.
View Quote
$300-400 tops
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:39:10 PM EDT
[#12]
I'd be interested at $350-ish.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:54:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Privi Partizan for ammo,
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:58:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Privi Partizan for ammo,
View Quote
This.

150 gr. shoots best in my 1944 Long Branch.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:58:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Check and see if the other parts are "S" marked for Savage as that will have an effect on value.
View Quote
All are stamped with an "S"...
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:02:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Most of the metal parts will be stamped with a stylized S. The wood is refinished British wood and it is not American walnut. 350 400 is OK all correct would be more but harder to find.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:07:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Yep those crescent wood moons are not American walnut.  That's beech wood so not the original.    Might say FTR on the receiver for a factory through rebuild.

ETA. I zoomed in and I didn't see any FTR markings.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:11:00 PM EDT
[#18]
So, $300 would be reasonable?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:17:19 PM EDT
[#19]
$300 is a good price if bore is GTG.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:20:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, $300 would be reasonable?
View Quote
I'd buy it.  But I have a pile of Greek .303 to run through mine.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:22:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Is there any rifling in the bore??  Is it dark, or rounded lands?  

Most used Enfields were shot with corrosive ammo and put away wet....bad
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:22:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
U. S. Property?  So aught-six instead of .303?
View Quote
NO.

It is a Savage No.4 MK.I* in .303 British, made for the Brits and supplied under the Lend-Lease program.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
$300 is a good price if bore is GTG.
View Quote
That's the only problem, kind of hard to really check the bore...I mean, I can look through it with a light, but its difficult to tell how good or bad it truly is.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:53:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's the only problem, kind of hard to really check the bore...I mean, I can look through it with a light, but its difficult to tell how good or bad it truly is.
View Quote
Pull the bolt out
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:00:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
NO.

It is a Savage No.4 MK.I* in .303 British, made for the Brits and supplied under the Lend-Lease program.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
U. S. Property?  So aught-six instead of .303?
NO.

It is a Savage No.4 MK.I* in .303 British, made for the Brits and supplied under the Lend-Lease program.
This Gentlemen is absolutely correct. I have it's twin in my safe as we speak. (SA acceptance marks on mine though) .303 and made by Savage. The US Property marks were to satisfy the Lend Lease requirements
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:02:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's the only problem, kind of hard to really check the bore...I mean, I can look through it with a light, but its difficult to tell how good or bad it truly is.
View Quote
To remove the bolt, look on the left side of the receiver and you will see a notch, when you pull back the bolt the bolthead will fit that notch, flip it up and remove the bolt. (reverse to reassemble)
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:04:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Us property enfield would be 300-500 around here.


Its .303 British.

P14s are also .303. M1917s are .30 cal
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:16:26 PM EDT
[#28]
UPDATE

I am now the proud owner of an Enfield rifle.

I met up with the guy this evening, with the plans on passing on the rifle.  He originally wanted to buy a rifle I had listed, and brought the Enfield just to tease me a bit....well, it worked!  I ended up with the rifle and almost 100rds of surplus ammo (1x box is commercial Winchester 180gr PPs).  Price was pretty good, I am into the deal for $285 (with the ammo).  I was selling the rifle for $425, he gave me the Enfield/ammo + $140.  I was still a little hesitant, as I hate to rush into any kind of deal, but felt like this one was OK.  Rifling looks OK, but I really won't know until I shoot it.  Everything else feels solid, so now I have start learning about these rifles, ammo, and everything else.  

Few questions.  What spare parts should I keep laying around?  Any recommendations on magazines, or should I stick with stripper clips?  Any suggestions on a place to find stripper clips?  

I'll post a few pics tomorrow, once I get back home.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:21:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Was just looking at one locally and asked the same question last week. 

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_14/481039_Requesting-info-on-US-Lend-Lease-Savage-Enfield-Mk4-No1-rifles.html
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:26:05 PM EDT
[#30]
That reminds me, now I have to find a bayonet for it as well...

Did you end up getting the rifle?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:30:46 PM EDT
[#31]
I ended up with the rifle and almost 100rds of surplus ammo (1x box is commercial Winchester 180gr PPs).  Price was pretty good, I am into the deal for $285 (with the ammo).  I was selling the rifle for $425, he gave me the Enfield/ammo + $140.  

on the surplus ammo you can shoot it but look at a youtube on how to clean corrosive ammo

water or windex down the bore and wipe with a clean patch
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:34:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Ammo is all '64 era, which I was told is not corrosive...headstamped "POF 64 L".
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:35:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Nice Enfield!  
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:36:35 PM EDT
[#34]
First thing you should do is move the sling swivel where it belongs which is on the band below.

Second.... look at the flat back of the bolt handle... does the serial number match the receiver.  The wood, as stated already is not Savage wood... so it was redone at some point.  Still a nice rifle... prices on these are really moving up.. so you got a great deal.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:51:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
First thing you should do is move the sling swivel where it belongs which is on the band below.

Second.... look at the flat back of the bolt handle... does the serial number match the receiver.  The wood, as stated already is not Savage wood... so it was redone at some point.  Still a nice rifle... prices on these are really moving up.. so you got a great deal.
View Quote
Yeah, I'll definitely move it tomorrow.  The numbers on the bolt match, as does the magazine...not sure about anything else.  Should the barrel also have the same SN?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:06:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Cocking piece on the bolt is non-original (like that from a No. 1 MKIII), as is the European beech wood.  Rear sight is the simple flip type, two-position aperture affair.

Looks like a rebuild, or perhaps someone purchased a "sporterized" No.4 Mk1* and tried to restore it back to its original glory with surplus wood.

That said, not a bad looking rifle overall.  You can still find original Savage wood on Ebay and from other sources.

As an aside, Savage Arms in the USA and Long Branch in Ontario Canada did share some parts from time to time from what I've been able to read.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:25:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
To remove the bolt, look on the left side of the receiver and you will see a notch, when you pull back the bolt the bolthead will fit that notch, flip it up and remove the bolt. (reverse to reassemble)
View Quote
US made (Savage) Enfields don't use the British design to remove the bolt.

There will be a notch in the bolt head track a little behind the chamber on the right side. Line the bolt head to that point and rotate the bolt head up out of the track.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:46:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ammo is all '64 era, which I was told is not corrosive...headstamped "POF 64 L".
View Quote
If anything, pull the bullets and use them as components. POF was the worst f the .303 surplus I shot when I had one.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:51:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This.

150 gr. shoots best in my 1944 Long Branch.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Privi Partizan for ammo,
This.

150 gr. shoots best in my 1944 Long Branch.
I hate you like Antifa hates America



So jelly
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:24:16 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Any recommendations on magazines, or should I stick with stripper clips?  Any suggestions on a place to find stripper clips?  

I'll post a few pics tomorrow, once I get back home.
View Quote
The magazines weren't really meant to be used like we think of using magazines now.  They were made to be loaded from clips.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:38:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Sweet!   Mine is also a 1942 savage.  All savage except for the forestock.  I brought her back from a sporter last winter.  

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 7:40:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Nice rifle.  As has been mentioned, the cocking piece (the "rear of the bolt") is non original.  Yours appears to be a much earlier version.

Magazines:  While the magazine is removable, the "correct" method of using the rifle is to leave the magazine in place, and to use stripper clips.  Given that the .303 British is a rimmed round, you need to pay some attention to loading of the clip so that you don't get rim-over failures.  Think "top round in magazine won't move forward because its rim is hung up on the round underneath".

Reloading:  The 303 Brit headspaces on the rim.  Most chambers are fairly generous. On firing, expect to see the case shoulder blown forward to a degree that would be freaky on any non-rimmed cartridge.  If you reload, do NOT full length resize. Pushing that shoulder back and forth on firing and resizing will lead to really rapid case failure.  

The brits didn't care about reloading case life.  Not an issue for a military rifle.  The generous chamber was meant for reliability.  The round will chamber, the rifle will fire, its reliable in mud, snow, ice, and dirt, so call it good.  If you reload, partial neck size only.

If you want a bayonet, Midway USA has mil surp WWII spike bayonets for about $30.  these are period correct for the rifle.

Not a lot of actual milsurp .303 on the market at the moment.  Occasionally you'll see Greek, Pakistani or Indian, and it is corrosive.  I use a little ammonia based windex to pre clean, then clean as normal.  No issues.  however, Wolf has some metal cased Non-corrosive 303 brit for about $8/box of 20.  If you want something soft point, try PrivPartizan/PPU for about $14-15/20.

fro
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:04:48 AM EDT
[#43]
When in doubt, buy.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:08:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
UPDATE

I am now the proud owner of an Enfield rifle.

I met up with the guy this evening, with the plans on passing on the rifle.  He originally wanted to buy a rifle I had listed, and brought the Enfield just to tease me a bit....well, it worked!  I ended up with the rifle and almost 100rds of surplus ammo (1x box is commercial Winchester 180gr PPs).  Price was pretty good, I am into the deal for $285 (with the ammo).  I was selling the rifle for $425, he gave me the Enfield/ammo + $140.  I was still a little hesitant, as I hate to rush into any kind of deal, but felt like this one was OK.  Rifling looks OK, but I really won't know until I shoot it.  Everything else feels solid, so now I have start learning about these rifles, ammo, and everything else.  

Few questions.  What spare parts should I keep laying around?  Any recommendations on magazines, or should I stick with stripper clips?  Any suggestions on a place to find stripper clips?  

I'll post a few pics tomorrow, once I get back home.
View Quote
Congrats.

Treat any surplus ammo other than Greek (headstamp HXP) as corrosive. Cleaning up after corrosively primed ammo isn't a big deal. You just need to use something with water in it to dissolve and flush out (not "neutralize") the corrosive residue, which is a water-soluble salt. Water, old-style USGI Rifle Bore Cleaner in the green can, Windex, wiper fluid, etc. will work. Don't forget to wipe down the bolt face. Then clean as with any other rifle. You do not need ammonia, contrary to what you may read on the Internet.

Prvi Partizan and Sellier & Bellot both make Boxer primed, non-corrosive ammo.

Lee-Enfields were never issued with spare magazines. In fact, spare mags may need to be fitted to the gun. Load singly or with stripper clips ("chargers" in Brit-speak). This page shows how to properly put the rounds in the clips to avoid rimlock. I suggest polishing the inside of the clips and even giving them a spritz with a dry Teflon lube to smooth them out. Regardless, they'll never be as smooth as Mauser or Springfield clips.

If you decide to reload for it, you should only neck size the brass to maximize case life. Lee-Enfields were built with generous chambers to account for dirty or corrodes ammo. They have a lot of slop and the cases expand a lot. They were able to do this because it headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder.

Intersting tidbit: Lee-Enfields handle escaping gas extremely well. My dad once had a complete case head separation in a No.4 and didn't know it until he opened the bolt. If you reload and full length resize your brass you want one of these.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:00:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ammo is all '64 era, which I was told is not corrosive...headstamped "POF 64 L".
View Quote
Pakistani Ordnance Factory 1964
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:02:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, $300 would be reasonable?
View Quote
Probably unless it is in shit condition.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:28:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sweet!   Mine is also a 1942 savage.  All savage except for the forestock.  I brought her back from a sporter last winter.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272589/IMG_0168-287074.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272589/IMG_0189-287075.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272589/IMG_0211-287097.JPG
View Quote
Restoring No.4 MK1 and No.4 MK1* rifles is always fun, IMHO.

I restored two in my life:  One is a 1943 Long Branch No. 4 MK1*.  It was in great shape when I purchased it at 13 or 14 years old, but the stock had been "sporterized", so I ordered replacement English wood from Springfield Sporters back in 1979 or 1980.  Eventually, I got around to finding the correct Canadian wood for it.  It's a solid and very handsome rifle.

The second project rifle was a 1942 Long Branch No.4 MK 1 that was FTR'd and marked as such sometime after the war.  The serial number on the rifle was struck out, and re-engraved with an electro-pencil of some type (for whatever reason).
The UK-made bolt was replaced and properly stamped with the matching serial number, wood replaced with English furniture, the rifle parkerized and then "stoved" with British bake-on lacquer.  The flip-style, two position rear sight was replaced with some sort of God aweful, cheaply made and pressed adjustable sight and then the rifle was stamped with English proofs and "England" on the receiver ring.  After all that, it was used and abused by whoever it was issued to.  The rifle was stripped of trigger guard, stock bands, other parts and the upper and lower handguards by someone and sold as a parts gun.  The barrel was and is a sewer pipe.  Surprisingly, the paint is mostly gone from the receiver and other parts, exposing a nice, even greenish park finish.      

I purchased it for $125.00 and already had some LB walnut wood for it laying around.  I had to buy a replacement LB forearm because the original is cracked at the receiver end and sanded down, not to mention that it's somewhat beat up, although not terribly so (I'll use it for another future restoration).  The replacement I purchased of Ebay has a few minor dings, but it's correct, solid, and has lots of "meat" on it.  The buttstock and upper and lower handguards are in excellent+ / new condition.

The milled stock bands and front sight protector came from Springfield Sporters, and the stamped trigger guard and screws came from a place in GA that dug through their inventory to find exactly what I wanted.  I already had a spare original UK magazine sitting around.

Was it cost effective?  Hell no, but it was a project that I enjoyed finding parts for and spending a little money on here and there.  I'll rebarrel it and call it good.  Whatever money I've spent or will spend on it will seem cheap at some point in the future.  I'd post pics if I could, but fuck photobucket....
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:40:18 AM EDT
[#48]
I got shed of all my #4s except for my '44 and '50 Longbranch examples. Why drive a Pinto when you can drive a Bentley?

'44



'50



If it would not be for owning the LBs I would have kept the '42 Savage but like the OP's example it was a rebuilt/mismatched rifle.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 3:36:44 PM EDT
[#49]
This thread is killing me
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I got shed of all my #4s except for my '44 and '50 Longbranch examples. Why drive a Pinto when you can drive a Bentley?
View Quote
What, no love for a [new] Fazakerly made No4?  

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