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Posted: 8/15/2005 9:14:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 12:37:17 PM EDT by Flyfishing26]
Ok, I have an "employee" who spends most of the day with the Instant Messenger on the taskbar and constantly sending messages. She is not a great worker and screws off quite a bit....anyway things have taken a major turn over the last 4 hours.
I have an IT administator that copies me on all messages sent to an from the office - mainly do to security and client confidentiality issues. The copies of the IM's sent this morning are basically nothing short of PORNOGRAPHY...(Discussing clothing, sex acts, sex organs..feelings...extremely graphic)

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content - but I could on performance issues since IM is not a job related product. Anybody dealt with something similiar??? I have a call into the HRIS to see where I stant...I hate to terminate somebody and have it bite me later.

Input Please...
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:15:34 AM EDT
she is stealing company time,

steakling company bandwidth,

and making other workers work hard because they are picking up her slack.
Fire her today.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:17:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:17:25 AM EDT
Is she hot?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:18:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:18:47 AM EDT by LoginName]
What's her IM handle?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:18:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:19:07 AM EDT by senorFrog]
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:18:54 AM EDT
Can't fire them over content? I'm sure you guys have a documented company policy against pornography.

sarge is right, stealing time, bandwidth, money and violating company policy. Can her today, but make sure you have a good paper trail.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:19:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
Ok, I have an "employee" who spends most of the day with the Instant Messenger on the taskbar and constantly sending messages. She is not a great worker and screws off quite a bit....anyway things have taken a major turn over the last 4 hours.
I have an IT administator that copies me on all messages sent to an from the office - mainly do to security and client confidentiality issues. The copies of the IM's sent this morning are basically nothing short of PORNOGRAPHY...(Discussing clothing, sex acts, sex organs..feelings...extremely graphic)

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content - but I could on performance issues since IM is not a job related product. Anybody dealt with something similiar??? I have a call into the HRIS to see where I stant...I hate to terminate somebody and have it bite me later.

Input Please...



To me, the IM stuff is irrelevant. Confront her about her work output. If she doesn't bring it up to snuff, then drop her.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:19:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5



- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:20:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
What's her IM handle?



Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:26 AM EDT

Is the a company POLICY about not using IMs or computers for personal use? If so, fire her for the policy violation.

If you DO fire her, be sure to make it all about her bad performance, and do not mention her saucy IMs (just to cover your ass).
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:
Is she hot?


A question which bears repeating.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5



- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



So it's not a company asset, yet you had the IT guys bug it?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:22:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:22:56 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
Ok, I have an "employee" who spends most of the day with the Instant Messenger on the taskbar and constantly sending messages. She is not a great worker and screws off quite a bit....anyway things have taken a major turn over the last 4 hours.
I have an IT administator that copies me on all messages sent to an from the office - mainly do to security and client confidentiality issues. The copies of the IM's sent this morning are basically nothing short of PORNOGRAPHY...(Discussing clothing, sex acts, sex organs..feelings...extremely graphic)

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content - but I could on performance issues since IM is not a job related product. Anybody dealt with something similiar??? I have a call into the HRIS to see where I stant...I hate to terminate somebody and have it bite me later.

Input Please...



Fire her. IM is not a job related product like you said and the content is certainly worth firing over. If someone were to walk bu and see what she was typing. You would be rewsponsible. You would be to blame, you would be the one under the gun for a sexual harrasment case. You could have prevented it but did not? You in deep doo doo. I guess it depends on the state but I have seen quite a few harrasment cases. Some of them were because of pop ups. A questionable pop up hit a womans screen and she sued us.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:22:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:22:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.




The fire her over the fact she is brinbg electronic pornography into the work place.

Why is this so hard?

If she is a shitty worker you already should have 2 documented action plans ofn her.


All you need now is a write up stating she isn't improving.


I can find three violations on ANY person at ANY company ANY time of the day.

Firing people is really easy.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:23:30 AM EDT
Does she get a warning first?

Hell, the sending of pron (or pron like content) leaves you open to harassment cases, etc right? If she accidentally sent it to somebody who wouldn't appreciate it. If it was a guy sending that to a woman it (generally) wouldn't go down at all well, right?

Base it on performance issues, and cover your own arse!

/PHil

PS. Hail to King Baby
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:23:50 AM EDT
The AOL Instant Messenger program is not installed by the IT department, we are not super hardcore and prohibit people installing software on thier own - HOWEVER, since IM is sort of not used for anything else but screwing off...I know it should have been removed once we discovered it was installed..but hindsight is 20/20 I gotta address the current problem....
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:24:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5



- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



So it's not a company asset, yet you had the IT guys bug it?



Whoa, I smell LAWSUIT!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:24:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:26:03 AM EDT by LoginName]
Is there any valid or professional reason to be running the IM service at your workplace (or at least is there any reason why she might need it on her computer?).

Why not just disable or delete the service from the system if ther's no need for it?

(ETA: never mind... I just read the previous posts).
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:24:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5



- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



If the transmission was over your equipment on your dime I would think you are safe. Unless your lawyer is weak, or you live in a place with whacky laws.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.




OK, forget about IM content.
Post a notice that Instant Messaging is no longer acceptable, unless it is work related (leave that last part off if there is no reason to do it for work).
Next, discuss her work productivity. Do not mention IM.
Document the discussion, document what will happen if she does not improve, have her sign it.
Follow up.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:25:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:25:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

I understand that I cannot terminate somebody because of content ..



what are you talking about?!?!?

OF COURSE YOU CAN FIRE THEM OVER CONTENT!!!


SGat1r5



- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.





Splain ???


I'd just have IT take the damn messenger right off her computer, and disable any reinstallation of any programs.

Administrator rights are nice like that.... and I gather she has no need of them, from your posts.

Hell, just block them through the company's firewall...... she can click all damn day, and it simply wont work. Problem solved.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:25:31 AM EDT
I suggest you get input from someone that understands termination procedures before you get yourself in trouble, because it seems you don’t know what you are doing.

Terminating someone on performance issues can be iffy because it is subjective, in many cases termination for bad performance does not constitute “cause".

Terminating for misuse of company time, equipment, and pornography is not subjective... it is provable misconduct.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:25:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



So it's not a company asset, yet you had the IT guys bug it?



Hmmm, it's not a company asset and yet it's still bugged....the boss is hypocritcally posting from work?

What's the name of this outfit so I know NOT to submit a resume?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:26:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.



What??

Do you understand the concept of BOSS/OWNER versus EMPLOYEE ?

PLus, she is goofing off, and sending/reciving porn, he is here asking a question about how to improve his company. Seem to be very different things.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:26:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:
Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.
That sums it up for me.



Really? It sounds like they are his computers and his payroll.
Sounds like he can do whatever he chooses with his own time.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:26:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.

while not in those exact words....i was thinking something similar.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.



Um, he's the boss. That is a priveldge HE gets.

Peons don't get privledges.

Sgat1r5

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:27:31 AM EDT
Simple solution....

Get the IT guy to remove all the IM software and make all employees aware it's against company policy

The company can dictate what software is permissible on their pc's

No more bother for anyone

how easy is that?

Taffy
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:28:44 AM EDT
Be sure to have a policy in place.

Also have the IT guys remove IM from her computer, give a formal warning and if it is back on their the next day or week then she is a goner.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:30:04 AM EDT
How can it be that she's at work but the IMs are not being sent via company connection? If you do not use IMs for business, I would just have your network admin block the port and be done with it. Either way I would document the crap out of it so that you have a paper trail for furture use, if you decide to fire her. The company should have a policies in place about using business equiptment for personal use, about all communications NOT being private ( ie email / IMs will be read ), and about elicite communitions.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:30:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
The AOL Instant Messenger program is not installed by the IT department, we are not super hardcore and prohibit people installing software on thier own




Okay, she violated company policy by installing software

Write up #1

She is using your computer for personnal gain AND exchanging porn.

Serious write up #2 and possible sexual harrassment issues.

Document all of this and you can fire her troday.

Nothing wrongful about it.

Is she transfered porn on the companies computer you have a duty to the OTHER wortkers to get rid of her.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:30:07 AM EDT
Have the IT Guy null route the DNS entries that messenger uses. That is what we have done here where I work.

We have messenger installed on our email server for internal use only. All external calls to the messenger services are routed into the crapper.

Plus you get the added benefit of explaining that it isn't good use of company time when she complains that her computer is not working ;)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:30:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
The AOL Instant Messenger program is not installed by the IT department, we are not super hardcore and prohibit people installing software on thier own - HOWEVER, since IM is sort of not used for anything else but screwing off...I know it should have been removed once we discovered it was installed..but hindsight is 20/20 I gotta address the current problem....



If you prohibit people installing stuff on their own, that's a violation of company policy. Document it, write her up for shitty job performance, write her up for installing personal material on the computers, write her up for the pornography. Wait for her to do it again, and zap her.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:30:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mantis_51:
Be sure to have a policy in place.



Exactly.

Once you have a formal company policy, that has been communicated to employees - and that they have acknowledged (signed is best) - then firing someone for a documented policy violation is easy and pretty risk-free.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:31:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:
Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.
That sums it up for me.



Really? It sounds like they are his computers and his payroll.
Sounds like he can do whatever he chooses with his own time.



+1 If he has to follow rules set for subordinates, then he is no longer the leader.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:32:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



So it's not a company asset, yet you had the IT guys bug it?



Hmmm, it's not a company asset and yet it's still bugged....the boss is hypocritcally posting from work?

What's the name of this outfit so I know NOT to submit a resume?



- Let me explain...I OWN the company (49% holder) I actually paid for the PC's we are using...and I sign that silly little line located on the bottom right corner of the paychecks sent out each week. Your are 100% correct - if you intend to come to my organization and fuck off using my equipment and talk about your weekend long "fuck session" I will not tolerate it. I only posted here on this topic because I wanted some input....When you are willing to buy some stock and put your nickels at risk in order to work here..I will let you submit your resume.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:34:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.



Um, he's the boss. That is a priveldge HE gets.

Peons don't get privledges.

Sgat1r5




I agree the boss makes the rule and can ignore them if he wants.

But it has been my experience that a boss that does that quite often fails.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:34:33 AM EDT
I don't know what state you biz is in, but many states DO NOT require you to give ANY reason for termination. They call them "at will" states.

If your biz is in an at will state...just hand her her paycheck and tell her that her services are no longer required. Have her escorted to her vehicle so that she doesn't slip and fall, and tell her not to come back onto Company property.

If your biz is not in an at will state, document her poor performance, council her, pay her and cut her loose.

The main thing is not to cite any behavior that results in an employees' termination, unless you absolutely HAVE to. This will keep the wrongful termination suits to a minimum. Seems the pendelum has swung back to most of these cases being found in favor of the businesses anyway.

Good luck with it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:35:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

- No I cannot, it was not over our company systems - it's a device or transmission that we are not suppose to be able to monitor. I was going to go this route but was advised against it by the IT admin.



So it's not a company asset, yet you had the IT guys bug it?



Hmmm, it's not a company asset and yet it's still bugged....the boss is hypocritcally posting from work?

What's the name of this outfit so I know NOT to submit a resume?



- Let me explain...I OWN the company (49% holder) I actually paid for the PC's we are using...and I sign that silly little line located on the bottom right corner of the paychecks sent out each week. Your are 100% correct - if you intend to come to my organization and fuck off using my equipment and talk about your weekend long "fuck session" I will not tolerate it. I only posted here on this topic because I wanted some input....When you are willing to buy some stock and put your nickels at risk in order to work here..I will let you submit your resume.



Ah, now that the full story is known - fire her.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:35:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:35:34 AM EDT by MMcCall]

Originally Posted By Vamousegun:
Have the IT Guy null route the DNS entries that messenger uses. That is what we have done here where I work.

We have messenger installed on our email server for internal use only. All external calls to the messenger services are routed into the crapper.

Plus you get the added benefit of explaining that it isn't good use of company time when she complains that her computer is not working ;)



+1, or just block the ports at the router. Shutting people down with no confrontation is way too much fun, especially when they're trying to figure out what's wrong
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:35:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
The AOL Instant Messenger program is not installed by the IT department, we are not super hardcore and prohibit people installing software on thier own - HOWEVER, since IM is sort of not used for anything else but screwing off...I know it should have been removed once we discovered it was installed..but hindsight is 20/20 I gotta address the current problem....



IM sent...
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:36:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

The main thing is not to cite any behavior that results in an employees' termination, unless you absolutely HAVE to. This will keep the wrongful termination suits to a minimum.



+1

"We no longer require your services" - unless you NEED to specify a performance reason or something else.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:36:17 AM EDT
How do you handle people who talk on the phone all day long and get no work done? It's the exact same situation and you should treat it as such. Do you bug people's work phone and listen to all their converstations?

I'm sick and tired of all the pathetic managers out there blaming the technology for the problem and violating the trust the employee has with the company "just because they can".

If she isn't getting her work done then you need to do your job as a manager and make sure she does her job or knows that she will get let go. The reason she isn't getting her work done whether it is IM, surfing the net, talking on the phone, taking 15 minute smoke breaks every hour...ect doesn't really matter...it's the fact that she is getting paid to do a job and that job isn't getting done.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:37:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
BTW, You're not posting from work, Are You?




- It's good to be the KING...




Fucking hypocrit piece of shit.

That sums it up for me.



Ah... one of the little people.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:37:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:40:12 AM EDT by KN]
If she is not producing or getting her work done get rid of her.

We let people use IM here as long as it uses html (only thing that will go through our firewall).
It saves money on phone calls.

The way I see it. Its up to managers to make sure there people are productive. Not the network admins job by making policys and taking away freedoms.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:38:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
The AOL Instant Messenger program is not installed by the IT department, we are not super hardcore and prohibit people installing software on thier own - HOWEVER, since IM is sort of not used for anything else but screwing off...I know it should have been removed once we discovered it was installed..but hindsight is 20/20 I gotta address the current problem....



IM sent...



- HRIS is joking around with the same material "Hey, I have been trying to send you IM's all morning, we need to press forward with turning off the IM program- HA!HA!"

Smartasses!
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