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Posted: 5/1/2011 4:06:27 PM EDT
What the F have I done?

The light switch in my daughter's room controls a ceiling fan and an outlet. The ceiling fan stopped working. Check for power at the ceiling, and my multimeter says yes, there's voltage. Figured the fan had died so I went and got a new one. Put it up and still no go. Still showing power to the ceiling. Checked the outlet with a lamp and it works (both plugs). Light turns on and off with the switch. What the heck is going on? Why won't the ceiling fan work?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:08:36 PM EDT
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:09:04 PM EDT
Whats the OHM reading across the switch with the wires unhooked?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:10:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?


Ground to hot. I'm thinking the voltage isn't the issue though, if the outlet is functioning properly?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:10:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Whats the OHM reading across the switch with the wires unhooked?


BRB
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:10:56 PM EDT
In for the little chain pulling ,"oh fuck" moment.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:13:00 PM EDT
Need voltage readings....assuming the switched outlet is working fine...maybe Neutral gone in the Fan tap?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:13:15 PM EDT
Is there a romex at the ceiling? A white, black , and a bare copper ground?

Sounds like someone fished a wire up from a switched outlet for the fan. Check the connections in the outlet too.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:14:53 PM EDT
Missing a ground?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:15:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:17:03 PM EDT by fxntime]
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?


Ground to hot. I'm thinking the voltage isn't the issue though, if the outlet is functioning properly?


Yes, voltage can be an issue. Lights may work but a motor is a entirely different thing. Also, check hot to return voltage. Hot to ground tells you that you have power to the outlet, It doesn't tell you if you have a return path.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:15:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Need voltage readings....assuming the switched outlet is working fine...maybe Neutral gone in the Fan tap?


What readings do you need? From ground to hot with switch off, voltage is 0. With switch on, voltage is 122v at both the ceiling and outlet.

I just took the switch completely out of the equation, took the wires off of it and nutted them together. Same voltage at ceiling and outlet.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:16:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:17:24 PM EDT by ragedracer1977]
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?


Ground to hot. I'm thinking the voltage isn't the issue though, if the outlet is functioning properly?


Yes, voltage can be an issue. Lights may work but a motor is a entirely different thing.


Even the light kit on the fan doesn't come on. And yes, I pulled the little cords.

ETA: What could I plug into the outlet to test draw? I plugged in a computer with a 500w power supply and it turned on.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:17:53 PM EDT
In for some asshat reversed wire colors and the Op just needs to swap the black and white.... I found this in a house someone had used white for the hot from the plug up to the ceiling fan.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:18:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?


Ground to hot. I'm thinking the voltage isn't the issue though, if the outlet is functioning properly?


Yes, voltage can be an issue. Lights may work but a motor is a entirely different thing.


Even the light kit on the fan doesn't come on. And yes, I pulled the little cords.

ETA: What could I plug into the outlet to test draw? I plugged in a computer with a 500w power supply and it turned on.


Are you sure it's wired correctly?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:18:15 PM EDT
your power is fine, you fan is bad
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:19:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Harvster:
In for the little chain pulling ,"oh fuck" moment.


Zactly what I was thinking
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:19:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:20:30 PM EDT by ragedracer1977]
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
When you're checking the voltage what legs are you checking?

And did you try pulling the little chains?


Ground to hot. I'm thinking the voltage isn't the issue though, if the outlet is functioning properly?


Yes, voltage can be an issue. Lights may work but a motor is a entirely different thing.


Even the light kit on the fan doesn't come on. And yes, I pulled the little cords.

ETA: What could I plug into the outlet to test draw? I plugged in a computer with a 500w power supply and it turned on.


Are you sure it's wired correctly?


I would guess, if only because the old fan in there (with light kit) worked just fine for 8 years. (and I installed that one too)
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:20:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:
your power is fine, you fan is bad


Yeah, I doubt that, since I bought a new one. I know my first post was long and all...
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:20:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:21:54 PM EDT by skunk-ape]
you should check volts with the hot leg and the neutral leg of the circuit
typically the hot is black and the neutral is white


Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:20:27 PM EDT
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:20:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:
your power is fine, you fan is bad


Based on information to date I would go with this or incorrectly installed.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:20:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.


2 in a row with the same comment. BRB.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:22:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Need voltage readings....assuming the switched outlet is working fine...maybe Neutral gone in the Fan tap?


What readings do you need? From ground to hot with switch off, voltage is 0. With switch on, voltage is 122v at both the ceiling and outlet.

I just took the switch completely out of the equation, took the wires off of it and nutted them together. Same voltage at ceiling and outlet.


K, 120 between hot to Neutral is correct, your good there.......Does the fan have a light pack on it? Does it work? If you are getting 120 on the wires in the ceiling,
either you fan is bad,
wired wrong
or as others are saying...your missing something {pull switch} :)
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:22:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:
your power is fine, you fan is bad


Yeah, I doubt that, since I bought a new one. I know my first post was long and all...


It's not impossible. Wire it up to a plug and plug it into a known outlet to eliminate that possibility.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:24:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:25:13 PM EDT by ragedracer1977]
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Need voltage readings....assuming the switched outlet is working fine...maybe Neutral gone in the Fan tap?


What readings do you need? From ground to hot with switch off, voltage is 0. With switch on, voltage is 122v at both the ceiling and outlet.

I just took the switch completely out of the equation, took the wires off of it and nutted them together. Same voltage at ceiling and outlet.


K, 120 between hot to Neutral is correct, your good there.......Does the fan have a light pack on it? Does it work? If you are getting 120 on the wires in the ceiling,
either you fan is bad,
wired wrong
or as others are saying...your missing something {pull switch} :)


Well... Nope.

At the outlet neutral to hot? 120v. At the switch box neutral to hot? 120v. At the fan neutral to hot? 0v.

Broken neutral somewhere?

Guess I'll have to climb up in the attic.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:25:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:
your power is fine, you fan is bad


Yeah, I doubt that, since I bought a new one. I know my first post was long and all...

its happened. go plug it into another recep and see if it works
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:26:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:27:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


Wrong. i didn't. From neutral to hot at the ceiling fan, I get 0v.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:28:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Need voltage readings....assuming the switched outlet is working fine...maybe Neutral gone in the Fan tap?


What readings do you need? From ground to hot with switch off, voltage is 0. With switch on, voltage is 122v at both the ceiling and outlet.

I just took the switch completely out of the equation, took the wires off of it and nutted them together. Same voltage at ceiling and outlet.


K, 120 between hot to Neutral is correct, your good there.......Does the fan have a light pack on it? Does it work? If you are getting 120 on the wires in the ceiling,
either you fan is bad,
wired wrong
or as others are saying...your missing something {pull switch} :)




Well... Nope.

At the outlet neutral to hot? 120v. At the switch box neutral to hot? 120v. At the fan neutral to hot? 0v.

Broken neutral somewhere?

Guess I'll have to climb up in the attic.



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:30:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


Wrong. i didn't. From neutral to hot at the ceiling fan, I get 0v.
at the fan or in the recep

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:30:51 PM EDT
I've had this problem before. The power wire had rubbed through the insulation and was touching copper. I got resistance and power but when the current flowed it got drained out through the copper. Trace the wire and look for bad spots.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:31:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:32:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


He didn't.

My guess is that the wire came loose at the outlet. Most likely the switch goes to the outlet first then runs to the fan. Either that or you have a squirrel/possum to take care of.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:34:06 PM EDT
Could be...I had a call to a guys house that lost his flood lights...turned out either a rat or squirrel chewed up the sheathing and it shorted out.....I never found the carcass, and there was NOW WAY that animal could have lived through that........
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:34:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.

before you go pulling wires and shit did you get that reading in the fan, or from the recep? these problems typically arent complicated requiring rewiring and all sorts of shit. the simplest solution tends to be the right one
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:34:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


Wrong. i didn't. From neutral to hot at the ceiling fan, I get 0v.


Remember, you are checking DIFFERENTIAL, 0v hot to neutral with no load is good.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:35:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


Wrong. i didn't. From neutral to hot at the ceiling fan, I get 0v.



As I suspected it is an open neutral.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:35:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.

yeah, well, the fact that something WAS working then STOPPED working meant you were going up in the attic all along.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:36:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArimoDave:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


He didn't.

My guess is that the wire came loose at the outlet. Most likely the switch goes to the outlet first then runs to the fan. Either that or you have a squirrel/possum to take care of.


Switch goes to the outlet last. I thought I had resolved the wiring problems in the ceiling last year. I replaced this wiring, but must have done something wrong or missed this run.

This is what I found up there once...


Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:36:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.


wait.....the outlet is the end of the line? So you have ONE blk/wht/bare there?
k...so it's fed from the switch.....how many sets are at the switch?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By wicketsurplus:
You keep saying ground to hot, you need to tell us what you get from neutral to hot.

hell get the same thing


Wrong. i didn't. From neutral to hot at the ceiling fan, I get 0v.
The only way you can get 120V hot to ground at the fan but 0V hot to neutral would be a hot to neutral short near the fan but that should trip the breaker and if it is wired to the fan then to the outlet you should see the same scenario at both.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:38:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Waveform:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.

yeah, well, the fact that something WAS working then STOPPED working meant you were going up in the attic all along.


I was hoping it was the fan itself... Up I go. i'll report what I find, if the rabid possums don't get me.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Waveform:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:



K, you lost it somewhere....now you need to find weather the line is leaving the switch to the fan, or from the outlet to the fan...."typically" there is a bad connection/burnout or something, RARELY does it happen n the middle {inside the wall/ceiling} Check the connections at the switch and pull out outlet, IF it's at the outlet, make sure it not a "stab-back" wire job.....I never use them because of the issues they cause.


I pulled the switch of the wall, connections look good there. Outlet is the end of the leg and it reads right between the hot and neutral. Guessing it has to be in the ceiling. Oh well. At least it's not 120 yet and the attic shouldn't be completely unbearable.

yeah, well, the fact that something WAS working then STOPPED working meant you were going up in the attic all along.


I was hoping it was the fan itself... Up I go. i'll report what I find, if the rabid possums don't get me.

if youve answered i missed it, at the recep itself you are getting 120 hot to ground and 0 hot to neutral?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:45:14 PM EDT
Think he's in the attic....might be getting gnawed on by a rabid animal, or shocked......{hope not}
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:46:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Think he's in the attic....might be getting gnawed on by a rabid animal, or shocked......{hope not}

hopefully for his sake hes not wasting his time... people tend to blow these situations out of proportion. very rarely is it not a quick fix
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:49:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartan121020:

Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Think he's in the attic....might be getting gnawed on by a rabid animal, or shocked......{hope not}

hopefully for his sake hes not wasting his time... people tend to blow these situations out of proportion. very rarely is it not a quick fix


It could be a chewed up wire.....I am leaning towards a bad tap or lost neutral in the path.
I ALWAYS make the mistake of looking for the hard shit....ends up being something stupid like a tap, stab-back came free....or the damn pull chain
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 4:52:24 PM EDT by hightech_redneck]
Need to start a wager on who is right....lol maybe a paid membership, paid by the OP


Fixed, OP should pay for membership for our knowledge if it turns out to be pull chain
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:53:00 PM EDT
Hmmm.

I'm telling you, it is one of 2 things.

Either a wire was ADDED from the plug UP TO the light.....check splice INSIDE OF RECEPTACLE BOX

OR

a wire was fished from LIGHT DOWN TO THE RECEPTACLE....check the splice inside the LIGHT BOX.



Why do you people have this guy crawling around in his attic?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:54:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
Hmmm.

I'm telling you, it is one of 2 things.

Either a wire was ADDED from the plug UP TO the light.....check splice INSIDE OF RECEPTACLE BOX

OR

a wire was fished from LIGHT DOWN TO THE RECEPTACLE....check the splice inside the LIGHT BOX.



Why do you people have this guy crawling around in his attic?


We sugg. a tap or stab-back came loose...he said all was correct.....

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:56:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
Hmmm.

I'm telling you, it is one of 2 things.

Either a wire was ADDED from the plug UP TO the light.....check splice INSIDE OF RECEPTACLE BOX

OR

a wire was fished from LIGHT DOWN TO THE RECEPTACLE....check the splice inside the LIGHT BOX.



Why do you people have this guy crawling around in his attic?

because people blow these situations out of proportion. if im understanding whats going on his readings at the recep or normal, theyre screwy in the fan
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:56:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hightech_redneck:
Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
Hmmm.

I'm telling you, it is one of 2 things.

Either a wire was ADDED from the plug UP TO the light.....check splice INSIDE OF RECEPTACLE BOX

OR

a wire was fished from LIGHT DOWN TO THE RECEPTACLE....check the splice inside the LIGHT BOX.



Why do you people have this guy crawling around in his attic?


We sugg. a tap or stab-back came loose...he said all was correct.....

Lol....

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