This occurred in our area yesterday:  fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/032005/03102005/1696401

Apparently, the lady was out walking her little dog when the three pits charged, killing both her pooch and her.

When the deputy sheriff arrived, the pits then attacked him.  He fired and killed two and the third ran off into the woods.  That dog was later captured.  As soon as the forensic evidence is gathered, that dog will be put down.

The dogs were apparently all owned by the same man.

Our local radio did a piece on this.  Seems the neighbors have been in fear of the dogs for some time and have reported the dogs running free.  Unfortunately, by the time animal control and the lawmen have responded, the pits have fled.  

This story is why I ALWAYS carry when I'm on a walkabout with my family.  We have a pit living down the street and it is rowdy too.  I saw it out running free about a month ago.   If it makes a move on my kids...it is dead.

Really a sad story...

I know a lot of people own Pitsbulls and swear they are fine dogs but the wife and I had one for 9 years and that dog just wasn't right...there was something missing.  

I will (and have) kill any Pit Bull that comes onto my property, no questions asked.  

My neigbhors had a pit bull, and all the dog wants me to do is throw the tennis ball, and she brings it back. The dog died 3 years ago, at the 10 years old.

Quoted: Remember, it's NOT the breed. It's the owners! I would put a smiley here, but considering the subject matter of this thread, I think not. Eric The(DogLoving....Well,Non-DangerousDogLoving)Hun

I would agree but only to a point.  In many cases, it is without question the fault of the damn owners.  I have had two encounters with pits.  In each case, it was clear to me that it was the inherited hostile characteristics of the breed rather than the owners (both young females) that caused the dogs to revert to violent behavior.

We have all read too many stories here and in our local press about these dogs.  Unless the owners and the breeders get control, this breed is headed for a ban.  A well ordered society can't permit uncontrolled and inherently murderous dogs to live in our midst.

Quoted: Remember, it's NOT the breed. It's the owners!

Wrong again, ETH - it's the breed.

Pit Bulls have been specifically bred to be aggressive.  True, that trait can be minimized somewhat by extensive training, it will always still be there.  Plus, very few pit bull owners are willing to spend the time and money doing it.  In fact, the biggest problem with pit bulls is that low class scum tend to like the idea of owning a pit and actually encourage their natural tendencies.

Add to that the massively powerful jaws and shoulders (another bred-in trait) and you have a recipe for disaster.  A aggresive poodle or beagle will have a very hard time killing a human, something that's easy work for a pit.

True, how a pit behaves is determined to a large extent by the owner.  But you can't treat a pit or a rott the same way you treat poodles, shitzus, dalmations, or even dobes and shepherds.  And if you do, people are going to get hurt.

Quoted: This story is why I ALWAYS carry when I'm on a walkabout with my family.  We have a pit living down the street and it is rowdy too.  I saw it out running free about a month ago.   If it makes a move on my kids...it is dead. ...

I am afraid i'd have to be proactive...If someone is letting a dog like that run free in a nieghborhood with kids...the dog needs to quietly disappear.  Domestic animals (especially potentially dangerous ones) need to be kept under control. Like most things, you cannot rely on the authorities to handle these situations.

Flame me if you want, but I believe people have more rights than animals.  You can't do much with negligent owners so you have to protect the innocents.

Quoted: I am afraid i'd have to be proactive...If someone is letting a dog like that run free in a nieghborhood with kids...the dog needs to quietly disappear.

I agree - last week I didn't like the way the neighbor's cat was looking at me, so I shot it.  Better safe than sorry.

Quoted: I will (and have) kill any Pit Bull that comes onto my property, no questions asked.

+10000

I can't speak for other owners:

There was something wrong with our dog, no doubt about it.  You could see the eyes change as if she lost all control and she would just snap.  We never let her run free, always kept her on a lease or in our fenced in yard (supervised) and made her obey us.  But if she flipped out there was little we could do.  Commands didn't work, training classes seemed to go out the window and her place in the pack didn't seem to matter to her any more.

I tend to think, after owning one, that there is something inherently wrong with that breed.

And a lot of you people hate cats why???

Quoted: Quoted: This story is why I ALWAYS carry when I'm on a walkabout with my family.  We have a pit living down the street and it is rowdy too.  I saw it out running free about a month ago.   If it makes a move on my kids...it is dead. ... I am afraid i'd have to be proactive...If someone is letting a dog like that run free in a neighborhood with kids...the dog needs to quietly disappear.  Domestic animals (especially potentially dangerous ones) need to be kept under control. Like most things, you cannot rely on the authorities to handle these situations. Flame me if you want, but I believe people have more rights than animals.  You can't do much with negligent owners so you have to protect the innocents.

I have thought about that...but so far I haven't made a decision.  The guy lives about 1/4 mile away from us.  They are real Bumpuses too.  I've only seen the pit bull running free once...but my missus says she has seen it free twice.  I did see Miz Owner walking it one day...and the crazy mutt was literally HANGING on to the leash by his teeth growling,  and rear legs bouncing along,  as she attempted to drag it along the street.    Very freaky.
Many issues to consider before destroying a neighbor's mutt.

Quoted: Gee, I suppose that I need to put a 'sarcastic' smiley by my posts regarding pit bulls from now on.

Sorry, a knee-jerk reaction caused by all the previous pit bull threads.  You know the ones - "My dog Fluffy wouldn't hurt a fly" with a picture of a 4-year-old girl hugging a pit bull, and the dog's mouth is 27% larger than the child's head.  I cringe when imagining what's going to happen the day that up-till-now-dormant synapse fires in that in-bred little brain and the pit takes a chomp out of the kid.  All of a sudden Fluffy won't look so cute and cuddly anymore.

I think that it's like living next door to a fellow who juggles live hand-grenades outside your bedroom window. If he's very careful with those grenades......

You know, the thought of me agreeing with ETH on anything is starting to scare me. (<--sarcastic smiley)

Quoted: Quoted: I am afraid i'd have to be proactive...If someone is letting a dog like that run free in a nieghborhood with kids...the dog needs to quietly disappear. I agree - last week I didn't like the way the neighbor's cat was looking at me, so I shot it.  Better safe than sorry.

Yes, house cats kill as many people as pit bulls do on a yearly basis.  Good analogy.

Hmmm...I just rescued a pit in January.  I'll make sure and post something here if she goes psycho and eats the neighbor kid....

The dogs in article from the original post were running loose.  Sign #1 of an irresponsible dog owner.  Note use of the generic term dog.  I don't care if it is a poodle, leashed or in it's own yard is where it belongs.

For a group whose reputation is constantly being eroded by the irresponsible or criminal actions of just a few (gun owners), some of you sure seem quick to judge.  These are powerful and (I'll grant you this) potentially dangerous dogs.  But so is my shepherd, and my wife for that matter.  There are tricks to living with and caring for all of them.  

what, no "another cop shooting a poor dog" remark? shocking.  anyone who's gone through rabies shots will not hesitate to wound or kill an aggressive dog to prevent from going through it again, believe me.  

My fiancee and I were having our pictures taken in a park in Kansas City a few weeks ago. While we were waiting for the photographer, we were walking around the small duck/goose pond talking, when all of a sudden I saw a 120# mid-20's lady walking her PB on a leash across the pond from us.

I kept watching them as we talked, and sure enough... the dog saw a goose and DRAGGED the lady 20 or 30 feet when it took off trying to get the bird. After that much dragging, the lady either let go, or gave up... cause the dog got free... chased some geese into the water, and ran around the hillside.

Several minutes later, same lady... with same pitbull... on same leash (of course) comes walking around the hill again (toward the duck pond). Sure enough, much dragging/yelling and once again, the dog is free to chase down more birds.

I kept walking my fiancee around to  the opposite side of the pond as the dog was on the rest of the day, and kept my keys in my hand (best weapon I had at the time) to poke the dumb things eyes out if I needed to.

This same park, in the hour we were there, was occupied by at least 50 other people, and I saw at least a dozen or so 6year old (or younger) kids around this same area.

I personally don't have a problem with people keeping any animals, provided they can keep them safely. This lady was NOT keeping her dog safely... she couldn't even hold it back when she had the leash in both her hands.

Putting others at risk with these types of animals, intentionally or not, should be a criminal offense. If you want to use/have them, do it safely.

I'm a fence sitter on the whole "dog control" idea. I don't really see a problem with people who can control them... OTOH, I don't think it's wise to keep potentially dangerous animals in densely populated areas (like city neighborhoods), where they have a high probability of coming in contact with others.

Is it that time of the month already?


-HS

I've had many Pits, and not one of them has ever showed aggression to someone that didn't deserve it.  I had to get rid of my dogs when I had my son though.  They weren't adjusting well to the new addition to the pack.  They never did anything that made me think they were going to hurt my son, but they were very twitchy after I brought him home.   I gave them a month to adjust, but they never did, so I found them a home.

I always introduced my dogs to my neighbors because my dogs made them very nervous.  After meeting the dogs a few times, they weren't as nervous with them.  I was at work one day and there was a lady walking in front of my house with her kid, and a dog from down the street had gotten out and was snarling and nipping at her.  My dogs broke through the fence and DESTROYED that other dog.  When they were done they went back through the fence.  When I got home I had no idea what had happened.  There were boards missing from my fence and a red smear on the sidewalk, but both dogs were in the backyard.  I was getting ready to call the police to see if there had been a dog attack in the area, because my dogs had gotten loose and there is blood in front of my house.  Right before I dialed the doorbell rang, and it was the lady who was walking with her kid.  She told me what happenend, and then she offered to pay for my fence.  My neighbors loved my dogs after that day.  They refered to my dogs as "the neighbor hood watch." The guy up the street wasn't to happy about what had happened, but he wasn't angry with me or my dogs.    

Quoted: I will (and have) kill any Pit Bull that comes onto my property, no questions asked.

+1 (except I haven't killed one yet)

Quoted: For a group whose reputation is constantly being eroded by the irresponsible or criminal actions of just a few (gun owners), some of you sure seem quick to judge.  These are powerful and (I'll grant you this) potentially dangerous dogs.  But so is my shepherd, and my wife for that matter.  There are tricks to living with and caring for all of them.

It's apples and oranges.

Guns don't kill on their own. A gun, if left alone, is harmless.

A dog (ANY dog) is NOT an inanimate object like a gun is. They will ACT and REACT of their own accord.

Having a problem with dangerous animals, even if they are leashed/caged isn't the same ballpark as people having a problem with guns.

There needs to be a certain line drawn about these animals. There needs to be 100% accountability by the owners if their dog gets loose, or somehow injures an innocent person. As in, you neglected to safely maintain your dog, so now little johnny is maimed/dead/whatever, YOU face criminal charges.

OR

There needs to be some sort of citywide ordinances that prevent certain dangerous animals from being kept in densely populated areas.

Either one would be acceptable for me... I would prefer to see personal accountability, but that is the more risky (yet more free) way to do things.

The alternative (city limits ban) at least gives people the opportunity to accomidate their lifestyle (move to the country) to fit their desires, where they are much more unlikely to have incidents with their animals.

And no, the same argument can't be applied to guns, drugs, etc. None of those have a mind of their own.

Steenky

My intent was not compare the dogs to the guns.  My intent was to compare the actions of the irresponsible owners on the reputations of the dogs/guns.  I suspect that you and I are in pretty close agreement on the fundamental issue.  Of course I will be a little more defensive of the breed being an owner.  I can and have accepted the responsibility of ownership.  100% accountability?  Not likely.  I wish I could apply that level of accountability to parenting.  Far more people's kids kill people every year than do people's dogs.

My point is this.  I value the freedom to be able to have this dog, but accept the responsibility as well.  They go hand in hand.  Unfortunately, not all owners are as responsible.

Quoted: This occurred in our area yesterday:  fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/032005/03102005/1696401 Apparently, the lady was out walking her little dog when the three pits charged, killing both her pooch and her. When the deputy sheriff arrived, the pits then attacked him.  He fired and killed two and the third ran off into the woods.  That dog was later captured.  As soon as the forensic evidence is gathered, that dog will be put down. The dogs were apparently all owned by the same man. Our local radio did a piece on this.  Seems the neighbors have been in fear of the dogs for some time and have reported the dogs running free.  Unfortunately, by the time animal control and the lawmen have responded, the pits have fled.   This story is why I ALWAYS carry when I'm on a walkabout with my family.  We have a pit living down the street and it is rowdy too.  I saw it out running free about a month ago.   If it makes a move on my kids...it is dead. Really a sad story...

Put down the owner. I hate asshats who let their dogs loose.

Um, first off how are you going to say they are pitbulls? I want to see the papers. I have seen many half breeds called a Pitbull terrier but few true pitbulls. I own pitbulls and I have the pedigrees.

And um I as far as dangerous breeds go labs are top of the line,

A pitbull has become a name for any short haired dog that has attacked. Just like Assualt weapon is for any gun with a pistol grip or at that any gun.

ETA: I have seen a long haired ugly sob called a pitbull by the media

Quoted: Steenky My intent was not compare the dogs to the guns.  My intent was to compare the actions of the irresponsible owners on the reputations of the dogs/guns.  I suspect that you and I are in pretty close agreement on the fundamental issue.  Of course I will be a little more defensive of the breed being an owner.  I can and have accepted the responsibility of ownership.  100% accountability?  Not likely.  I wish I could apply that level of accountability to parenting.  Far more people's kids kill people every year than do people's dogs. My point is this.  I value the freedom to be able to have this dog, but accept the responsibility as well.  They go hand in hand.  Unfortunately, not all owners are as responsible.

Yeah, I sorta agree with kids and accountability, and yet disagree.

My point with accountability was in securing the animal. We can hardly be expected to secure children (keep them on leashes and in cages) like we do dogs.

Humans (and our children) can communicate and be reasoned with. We are much more developed than dogs or other animals. If we make a choice, it's our responsibility.

If we own pets, and we aren't smart enough to keep them from doing what they often do... we should be responsible for their actions. By that, it means keeping them controlled, caged, leashed, etc.

If we have children, and we aren't smart enough to keep them from doing what they often do... At some point, that would be child neglect/endangerment... At other points, it's the children making their own choices and doing what they want in spite of your wishes.

Unlike dogs, we don't (and aren't even allowed to if we wanted) keep our children under lock and key. They develop on their own into independant little human beings. We are responsible to provide for them, and to teach and nurture them... but until the day comes that we start treating them like animals, we can never be held responsible for anything and everything our children do.

JMHO, of course.

Quoted: Quoted: I will (and have) kill any Pit Bull that comes onto my property, no questions asked.   +1 (except I haven't killed one yet)

A loose pit bull, dobie, or rot is broad head bait. A gun set down will not chase someone down and kill them.  Certain movements will trigger the 'prey/attack' response in these predators.

Like my father is fond of saying, "If you want to keep him, keep'em penned up and off my place."

wganz
¶

Quoted: I've had many Pits, and not one of them has ever showed aggression to someone that didn't deserve it.

Yeah, I am sure this woman and her dog deserved it.

I am also sure that the Rotty that backed me up my driveway 3 times as I got home from work was only doing it because I deserved it.  I also recall that several people here jumped on me for even considering shooting the damn thing.

Poor lady, very sad.

Fuck pits, as I have said so many times before.  Any pit that approaches me unrestrained is getting splattered.  I've seen what one did to my wife, and it isn't going to happen again.

Quoted: Fuck pits, as I have said so many times before.  Any pit that approaches me unrestrained is getting splattered.  I've seen what one did to my wife, and it isn't going to happen again.

You an LEO by chance?

The only way to deal with these killers…

And before the Pro-Pit crew turn up… yes, any dog CAN turn and MAY kill you… but if a Pit turns it WILL kill you!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Remember, it's NOT the breed. It's the owners! I would put a smiley here, but considering the subject matter of this thread, I think not. Eric The(DogLoving....Well,Non-DangerousDogLoving)Hun I would agree but only to a point.  In many cases, it is without question the fault of the damn owners.  I have had two encounters with pits.  In each case, it was clear to me that it was the inherited hostile characteristics of the breed rather than the owners (both young females) that caused the dogs to revert to violent behavior. We have all read too many stories here and in our local press about these dogs.  Unless the owners and the breeders get control, this breed is headed for a ban.  A well ordered society can't permit uncontrolled and inherently murderous dogs to live in our midst.

We also hear a lot in the press about the dangers of certain types of guns.  Don't let them fool you, plenty of people are mauled by other types of dogs, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We also hear a lot in the press about the dangers of certain types of guns.  Don't let them fool you, plenty of people are mauled by other types of dogs, too.

Operative word here is MAULED!  Sure, a chihuhua can give you a nasty nip, but a 'nip' from a Pitbull may cost you an arm…

A Pit can pull down and kill a strong, fully grown man… FACT!… most dogs can't… FACT!

Quoted: A loose pit bull, dobie, or rot is broad head bait. A gun set down will not chase someone down and kill them.  Certain movements will trigger the 'prey/attack' response in these predators. Like my father is fond of saying, "If you want to keep him, keep'em penned up and off my place." wganz ¶

I'll have to disagree on the Dobies,  they make great guard dogs but are pretty piss poor attack dogs.  IOW they'll fight to death defending someone but not really balls out in attacking people.

Quoted: Quoted: I'll have to disagree on the Dobies,  they make great guard dogs but are pretty piss poor attack dogs.  IOW they'll fight to death defending someone but not really balls out in attacking people.

I'd agree with you here…

My previous neighbor bred Dobermanns… very good at guarding the 'home turf', one of her dogs ran staight through a closed patio door to get at an intruder he saw in her living room, but pretty friendly dogs outside 'their' patch.

Well,

The ARF dog breed experts have come out to bash the bulldogs again.

Whatever.

Breed them, raise them, be forced to put a few down then talk shit.

Untill then, isn't there some stale pizza, flat beer and a Seinfeild rerun you boys need to occupy yourselves with?

Quoted: Quoted: I've had many Pits, and not one of them has ever showed aggression to someone that didn't deserve it.   Yeah, I am sure this woman and her dog deserved it. I am also sure that the Rotty that backed me up my driveway 3 times as I got home from work was only doing it because I deserved it.  I also recall that several people here jumped on me for even considering shooting the damn thing.

Maybe I wasn't clear in that statement.  I've had many Pits, and not one of the Pits that I have owned has ever shown aggression to someone that didn't deserve it. I never said that Pits can't be agressive, or that the lady and her dog deserved it.  

Also, you wouldn't have been jumped on by me for considering to kill a dog.  Especially a breed that has an image like that of a Rott or Pit.  My dogs never got out other than the time from the previous post. If they would have gotten out and they wandered onto someones property, or cornered a person I wouldn't have been suprised if they were killed.  I would be angry, but not at the person who killed my dogs.  I don't expect others to trust a dog that they haven't met, especially a breed that has a negative reputation.  Every Pit owner knows what the public image of the breed is, and they should understand that people treat Pits differently than other breeds because of that image.

Edit for spelling

Quoted: Well, The ARF dog breed experts have come out to bash the bulldogs again. Whatever. Breed them, raise them, be forced to put a few down then talk shit.

I've got four nice scars on my right forearm from a pit bite. This one got a .410 3" load of 7½ to the back of the head after my cousin got him off of me.

My family had Pits growing up and two of them were complete and total psycho's. Mind you we had them since they were pups, never abused, always well taken care of and raised with my brother and I as kids. Pit 1 (Turk) would see me coming home from school and the minute I put the key in the door would go absolutely balistic. He could see me through the window but it didn't matter. He eventually got out one day and killed two of the neighbors goats and a full chicken coop of hens.

My step dad shot him.

Pit 2 (Brindle) would have seizures and when coming out of them would try to bite the living shit out of anything that was near her. She had to be put down. I don't really blame that on her breed but it sure didn't help matters that she was as powerfull as she was.

As a kid I felt like I was living with two friggin serial killers. The dogs terrified me, my brother and all of my friends. I will never own one and NEVER let my kids around them under any circumstance. I dont care how great they are. Those dogs when they get a hold of a person will rip the living shit out of them.

My last experience with a Pit was when I was 15. I missed the activity bus after school and had to walk home. I was walking down the street and as I passed this house a guy out front yelled something at me. He was probably 60 yards away on a busy road so I ignored him and walked on. Out of nowhere comes this guys Pit running full bore for me. I was friggin mortified and turned to face the dog figuring there was no way in hell I could outrun him. As the dog approached the road he jumped over the ditch running along it and got one more leap off as a car plastered him all over the highway. That was the first time in my life that I felt there was someone looking out for me. That dog would have ripped me to shreds if I was lucky and he did not kill me.

To make a long story short it ended up that the guys house had been broken into and he being the rocket scientist he was figured I was the culprit. After he ran up to the road and saw what had happened to his dog he then started coming after me like he was going to kick my ass. Thankfully the guy getting out of his car was huge and he was pissed.

I don't buy the idea that its the owners and the way they were raised one bit. These dogs have been inbred to hell (some of them) and they are far too powerful when that one little synaps fires off and they come after someone. Incidentaly I read recently that insurance companies have started to back away from business with homeowners who have Pits due to the claims that result. I say good riddance.

This video should say it all:

www.drunkendelight.com/view.php?id=268

+1 to the dude in the video

Quoted: This video should say it all: www.drunkendelight.com/view.php?id=268 +1 to the dude in the video

I've seen the entire video what was completely left out is the fact the owner ordered the dog to attack.  Any dog with the same training will attack on command or if they perceive a threat to their owner.  All dogs know if their owner is nervous or afraid and will respond.

Quoted: My family had Pits growing up and two of them were complete and total psycho's. Mind you we had them since they were pups, never abused, always well taken care of and raised with my brother and I as kids. Pit 1 (Turk) would see me coming home from school and the minute I put the key in the door would go absolutely balistic. He could see me through the window but it didn't matter. He eventually got out one day and killed two of the neighbors goats and a full chicken coop of hens. My step dad shot him. Pit 2 (Brindle) would have seizures and when coming out of them would try to bite the living shit out of anything that was near her. She had to be put down. I don't really blame that on her breed but it sure didn't help matters that she was as powerfull as she was. As a kid I felt like I was living with two friggin serial killers. The dogs terrified me, my brother and all of my friends. I will never own one and NEVER let my kids around them under any circumstance. I dont care how great they are. Those dogs when they get a hold of a person will rip the living shit out of them. My last experience with a Pit was when I was 15. I missed the activity bus after school and had to walk home. I was walking down the street and as I passed this house a guy out front yelled something at me. He was probably 60 yards away on a busy road so I ignored him and walked on. Out of nowhere comes this guys Pit running full bore for me. I was friggin mortified and turned to face the dog figuring there was no way in hell I could outrun him. As the dog approached the road he jumped over the ditch running along it and got one more leap off as a car plastered him all over the highway. That was the first time in my life that I felt there was someone looking out for me. That dog would have ripped me to shreds if I was lucky and he did not kill me. To make a long story short it ended up that the guys house had been broken into and he being the rocket scientist he was figured I was the culprit. After he ran up to the road and saw what had happened to his dog he then started coming after me like he was going to kick my ass. Thankfully the guy getting out of his car was huge and he was pissed. I don't buy the idea that its the owners and the way they were raised one bit. These dogs have been inbred to hell (some of them) and they are far too powerful when that one little synaps fires off and they come after someone. Incidentaly I read recently that insurance companies have started to back away from business with homeowners who have Pits due to the claims that result. I say good riddance.

I heartily recommend that you pit bull defenders here pay close attention to this first hand account.   You can try to defend the breed until you're blue in the fact but the fact remains that pit bulls still kill more animals and humans than any other dog breed.  I've been nipped and bitten by pooches too...I suspect many of us have.  That said...being attacked by a pit is an entirely different situation.

Lessee. Locally,  5 dead over the past few years, elderly and children.  More serious injuries than I can count.  The most recent an 11 year old girl so torn up she had to be lifeflighted to a trauma center.  Folks are taking donations to pay for rebuilding her face and throat. The dogs pulled her off a bicycle in her own yard.

I'd like to point out,  none were Labs.

You can defend the breed all you want. The fact is, purebred or mutt, it's a large animal which can do a LOT of damage, esp in the company of other large dogs.   I had rabies shots and stitches before.  I've seen the victims on a morgue table.  I'm gonna shoot the damn thing.  Don't want your cuddly little predator shot?  Keep it indoors or leashed.

Those folks posting pics of their little kids next to their "peaceful" pit bulls should be brought up on charges.

I was formerly one of the loudest defenders of pitbulls I can think of, but more and more lately, I'm starting to be progressively shaken in my beliefs. Pit bull or not though, any more attacks on me or mine will involve the 3 S's. No more warnings.