[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dutch loading (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/28/2011 12:35:15 PM EDT
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When I started carrying about 12 years ago, I sed to Dutch Load my mags, a round of JHP, a round of Ball etc. Rationale then was that JHP might not penetrate adequately through heavy clothing with enough oomph left to get the job done.
However with the modern ammo we have today I don't think that is really a concern any more, so I generally carry a mag full of Gold Dot 124 + P in 9mm. Anyone still see a vaule in Dutch loading, maybe in some of the pocket carry guns like .380 ? |
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When I started carrying about 12 years ago, I sed to Dutch Load my mags, a round of JHP, a round of Ball etc. Rationale then was that JHP might not penetrate adequately through heavy clothing with enough oomph left to get the job done. However with the modern ammo we have today I don't think that is really a concern any more, so I generally carry a mag full of Gold Dot 124 + P in 9mm. Anyone still see a vaule in Dutch loading, maybe in some of the pocket carry guns like .380 ? 
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I see no value in it.
If you really need to worry about barrier penetration, just buy bonded bullets or carry an entire spare mag of FMJ or something. In my get home chest rig, I have 30 rounders loaded with M193/Q3131. There is a single 20rd mag with SS109 (old Radway, I need to get some M855}. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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We sometimes tend to think we will have the opportunity to empty the mag into the bad guy. But what if you only get one shot to stop him before he shoots you? I want my best available ammo to be the first, and the second, and any other rounds in my weapon. This right here. |
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Quoted: We sometimes tend to think we will have the opportunity to empty the mag into the bad guy. But what if you only get one shot to stop him before he shoots you? I want my best available ammo to be the first, and the second, and any other rounds in my weapon. \thread |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I better change my 500a. I have it alternating...... Birdshot, Then flamethrower (dragons breath) and that's it, 2 rounds is plenty. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I better change my 500a. I have it alternating...... Birdshot, Then flamethrower (dragons breath) and that's it, 2 rounds is plenty. No it goes Beanbag Rubber slug birdshot buckshot slug |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !! 
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !!
Maybe that made sense to someone at one time....(I don't know how).... But would you please consider changing your habit? I think the standard training and tactic is to load the tube with buck, and have slugs on a sidesaddle or buttcuff or something else. That way, you WILL know what load you are about to fire. If and when you need to combat load a slug, voila! Loading drills are important here. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering some advice to make you more effective. |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !!
Maybe that made sense to someone at one time....(I don't know how).... But would you please consider changing your habit? I think the standard training and tactic is to load the tube with buck, and have slugs on a sidesaddle or buttcuff or something else. That way, you WILL know what load you are about to fire. If and when you need to combat load a slug, voila! Loading drills are important here. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering some advice to make you more effective. Guys Guys Guys! Hold on a sec! You are overthinking this! The order and type of shell doesn't matter, and you don't need actual shells loaded, all you have to do is rack the pump!
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !!
Maybe that made sense to someone at one time....(I don't know how).... But would you please consider changing your habit? I think the standard training and tactic is to load the tube with buck, and have slugs on a sidesaddle or buttcuff or something else. That way, you WILL know what load you are about to fire. If and when you need to combat load a slug, voila! Loading drills are important here. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering some advice to make you more effective. I do ! I know that the first shot coming out is 00 buck, after that, a slug & so on.... If 6 shots have proven ineffective, I'm ditching the shotgun & moving on to something else, or changing my tactics, I'm not re-loading. |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !!
Maybe that made sense to someone at one time....(I don't know how).... But would you please consider changing your habit? I think the standard training and tactic is to load the tube with buck, and have slugs on a sidesaddle or buttcuff or something else. That way, you WILL know what load you are about to fire. If and when you need to combat load a slug, voila! Loading drills are important here. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering some advice to make you more effective. Guys Guys Guys! Hold on a sec! You are overthinking this! The order and type of shell doesn't matter, and you don't need actual shells loaded, all you have to do is rack the pump!
That was once the theory as well... Racking the pump had a "psycological effect" |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I do the same, only different.... 00 buck in the pipe, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug....... but then again,(look up at my SN) I'm Dutch !!
Maybe that made sense to someone at one time....(I don't know how).... But would you please consider changing your habit? I think the standard training and tactic is to load the tube with buck, and have slugs on a sidesaddle or buttcuff or something else. That way, you WILL know what load you are about to fire. If and when you need to combat load a slug, voila! Loading drills are important here. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering some advice to make you more effective. I do ! I know that the first shot coming out is 00 buck, after that, a slug & so on.... If 6 shots have proven ineffective, I'm ditching the shotgun & moving on to something else, or changing my tactics, I'm not re-loading. No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. |
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I'm simple minded with shotguns, too.
My 870 is in the truck right now while we are camping. It is loaded as follows. 00 buck, 00 buck, 00 buck, 00 buck, 00 buck, 00 buck. If buck isn't working, I have 4 rifled slugs in the Speedfeed stock. I can place one of those in the breech instead of counting on my fingers to remember what load is up next in the magazine. If those don't work, I have more buck & even some birdshot in the shotgun case. By the time I needed those, I would need to re evaluate the life decisions that led me to a situation in which 10 big 12g rounds were inadequate. If I were still alive at that point. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I better change my 500a. I have it alternating...... Birdshot, Then flamethrower (dragons breath) and that's it, 2 rounds is plenty. No it goes Beanbag Rubber slug birdshot buckshot slug You left out the flechettes 
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It's a dumb idea.
If you are concerned about penetration in calibers like .380 shoot a lead flat nose loaded hot like Buffalo Bore makes, that will penetrate just fine. In any caliber bigger than that shooting a quality HP from Speer, Winchester or Federal penetration is not a problem. |
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I have my 870 loaded like that. 3 rounds 00 buck, then slugs. I picked it up years ago from a cop who was leading our Explorers troop, and I've just done it that way. I better change my 500a. I have it alternating...... Birdshot, Then flamethrower (dragons breath) and that's it, 2 rounds is plenty. No it goes Beanbag Rubber slug birdshot buckshot slug You left out the flechettes
Also left out rock salt. Whatever load I have in the chamber is the same load I have in the rest of the magazine. I don't really want to have to explain to a jury why I went from buckshot to slug to buckshot to slug when I was shooting that poor boy on his way to choir practice. The only exception to that rule is when I carry a pistol in the woods while hiking, I'll generall make the first two round shotshells and that is simply because of snakes. |
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No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. Your opinion. I have loaded this way for quite some time and I am reasonably sure that I can feel the difference between 00 buck, & a slug going down range. (plus I am pretty good at counting to 6) I know that if I pull the trigger on a slug, the next one down the pipe is a 00 buck. I also don't subscribe to the 5 step presentation for pistol shooting because for me it is un-natural, & I do what has worked for me for the last 26 years. So what works for one person, does not necessarily work for every person. If I am in the heat of a fire fight, I am more likely to ditch my shotgun anyway, and either move to a pistol for more manuverability, or a rifle for more firepower (or both) I don't have a sleeve on the stock of my shotgun for additional ammo, because it is a folding stock with a pistol grip, so re-loading is a poor option for me anyway. |
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Also left out rock salt. Whatever load I have in the chamber is the same load I have in the rest of the magazine. I don't really want to have to explain to a jury why I went from buckshot to slug to buckshot to slug when I was shooting that poor boy on his way to choir practice. The only exception to that rule is when I carry a pistol in the woods while hiking, I'll generall make the first two round shotshells and that is simply because of snakes. Tell me why you think that would be an issue? |
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No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. Your opinion. I have loaded this way for quite some time and I am reasonably sure that I can feel the difference between 00 buck, & a slug going down range. (plus I am pretty good at counting to 6) I know that if I pull the trigger on a slug, the next one down the pipe is a 00 buck. I also don't subscribe to the 5 step presentation for pistol shooting because for me it is un-natural, & I do what has worked for me for the last 26 years. So what works for one person, does not necessarily work for every person. If I am in the heat of a fire fight, I am more likely to ditch my shotgun anyway, and either move to a pistol for more manuverability, or a rifle for more firepower (or both) I don't have a sleeve on the stock of my shotgun for additional ammo, because it is a folding stock with a pistol grip, so re-loading is a poor option for me anyway. How many firefights have you been in? |
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No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. Your opinion. I have loaded this way for quite some time and I am reasonably sure that I can feel the difference between 00 buck, & a slug going down range. (plus I am pretty good at counting to 6) I know that if I pull the trigger on a slug, the next one down the pipe is a 00 buck. I also don't subscribe to the 5 step presentation for pistol shooting because for me it is un-natural, & I do what has worked for me for the last 26 years. So what works for one person, does not necessarily work for every person. If I am in the heat of a fire fight, I am more likely to ditch my shotgun anyway, and either move to a pistol for more manuverability, or a rifle for more firepower (or both) I don't have a sleeve on the stock of my shotgun for additional ammo, because it is a folding stock with a pistol grip, so re-loading is a poor option for me anyway. How many firefights have you been in? None. How many have you been in with a shotgun ? I was in the Marine Corps infantry for 4 years & a cop for 10 and I have been a firefigter for 22. I have been in some stressful situations, so because I haven't been in a firefight, doesn't mean I haven't trained for it. |
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Also left out rock salt. Whatever load I have in the chamber is the same load I have in the rest of the magazine. I don't really want to have to explain to a jury why I went from buckshot to slug to buckshot to slug when I was shooting that poor boy on his way to choir practice. The only exception to that rule is when I carry a pistol in the woods while hiking, I'll generall make the first two round shotshells and that is simply because of snakes. Tell me why you think that would be an issue? Because anything that might be misconstured by a prosecutor will be. They'll play it up as you went looking for a fight or changed loads to inflict injury and pain outside of normal self-defense and will have an army of experts say changing loads is stupid because of X,Y, and Z reasons and you won't be able to find any to say otherwise. I wouldn't risk it. Shotgun with buckshot or pistol with hollow points (if possible go withthe same pistols and ammo as you local police) and the jury won't think twice. Start doing some exotic or unusual things and your cornhole will be violated while you're in the graybar hotel for manslaughter. |
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No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. Your opinion. I have loaded this way for quite some time and I am reasonably sure that I can feel the difference between 00 buck, & a slug going down range. (plus I am pretty good at counting to 6) I know that if I pull the trigger on a slug, the next one down the pipe is a 00 buck. I also don't subscribe to the 5 step presentation for pistol shooting because for me it is un-natural, & I do what has worked for me for the last 26 years. So what works for one person, does not necessarily work for every person. If I am in the heat of a fire fight, I am more likely to ditch my shotgun anyway, and either move to a pistol for more manuverability, or a rifle for more firepower (or both) I don't have a sleeve on the stock of my shotgun for additional ammo, because it is a folding stock with a pistol grip, so re-loading is a poor option for me anyway. How many firefights have you been in? More specifically, "How many have you studied"? Because those that have been in firefights assure us that they had no idea how many shots they had fired at any time. |
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Because anything that might be misconstured by a prosecutor will be. They'll play it up as you went looking for a fight or changed loads to inflict injury and pain outside of normal self-defense and will have an army of experts say changing loads is stupid because of X,Y, and Z reasons and you won't be able to find any to say otherwise. I wouldn't risk it. Shotgun with buckshot or pistol with hollow points (if possible go withthe same pistols and ammo as you local police) and the jury won't think twice. Start doing some exotic or unusual things and your cornhole will be violated while you're in the graybar hotel for manslaughter. They could say that regardless of how you load your weapon. Why did you use 00 buck instead of birdshot ? Why didnb't you use a beanbag load when it was commonly available to you ? The point is, you are more likely to have an argument over why you shot, rather than what you shot. |
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Quoted: You still have a pretty close approximation though.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No sir, you will not. In the heat of a firefight, there is no way that you will know what is next up in the pipe. Dutch loading is silly. Your opinion. I have loaded this way for quite some time and I am reasonably sure that I can feel the difference between 00 buck, & a slug going down range. (plus I am pretty good at counting to 6) I know that if I pull the trigger on a slug, the next one down the pipe is a 00 buck. I also don't subscribe to the 5 step presentation for pistol shooting because for me it is un-natural, & I do what has worked for me for the last 26 years. So what works for one person, does not necessarily work for every person. If I am in the heat of a fire fight, I am more likely to ditch my shotgun anyway, and either move to a pistol for more manuverability, or a rifle for more firepower (or both) I don't have a sleeve on the stock of my shotgun for additional ammo, because it is a folding stock with a pistol grip, so re-loading is a poor option for me anyway. How many firefights have you been in? More specifically, "How many have you studied"? Because those that have been in firefights assure us that they had no idea how many shots they had fired at any time. |
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More specifically, "How many have you studied"? Because those that have been in firefights assure us that they had no idea how many shots they had fired at any time. In my profession I have to listen to the sound of falling couplings while leading out so I know how much hose I have down at a fire, I do this because I have been doing it that way for years. I'm not changing my modis oporandi now. I've studied quite a few firefights, & what I can tell you is this: Yes once the shooting starts, your best laid plans go to shit. Sgt. John Basilone while on Guadalcanal used a mit to carry the .30 cal browning machinegun he was carrying but when the SHTF he lost that mit & wound up having to rest that heavy & hot sonofabitch on his arm givning him sever burns. But he got the job done because he didn't lose his head. & he won a MOH because of it. When I'm on the scene of a fire, I try not to lose my head (because its easy to do) and rely on my training & what I have done in the past to guide me through the task at hand. Its not saying that mistakes won't happen. They always will, but the time for me to try something new isn't when the SHTF. |
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More specifically, "How many have you studied"? Because those that have been in firefights assure us that they had no idea how many shots they had fired at any time. In my profession I have to listen to the sound of falling couplings while leading out so I know how much hose I have down at a fire, I do this because I have been doing it that way for years. I'm not changing my modis oporandi now. I've studied quite a few firefights, & what I can tell you is this: Yes once the shooting starts, your best laid plans go to shit. Sgt. John Basilone while on Guadalcanal used a mit to carry the .30 cal browning machinegun he was carrying but when the SHTF he lost that mit & wound up having to rest that heavy & hot sonofabitch on his arm givning him sever burns. But he got the job done because he didn't lose his head. & he won a MOH because of it. When I'm on the scene of a fire, I try not to lose my head (because its easy to do) and rely on my training & what I have done in the past to guide me through the task at hand. Its not saying that mistakes won't happen. They always will, but the time for me to try something new isn't when the SHTF. |
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Just got done with an active shooter sims class. I can't count to 9.
No idea how many I shot after the engagement. Upon counting rounds usually more than I expected. And if there was anything incoming, or the threat wasn't going to the ground right away, it usually resulted in a mag dump. "Continue firing until the threat is no longer a threat" - Z |
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Never heard it called a "Dutch Load" before. The term I am familiar with is "Candy Cane" load (alternating FMJ and JHP rounds in a single magazine). I'm not a fan of that concept. +1 It's a bit , usually touted by the same folks who mention filing down the firing pin to make your AR full auto & other fvcktardness.
Mixed loading makes some sense in a military aircraft mounted belt fed MG...ball, armor piercing, incendiary, tracer, etc. The only reason I'd ever mix ammo in the mag is if I happen to be a bit short & lack enuff of the good stuff to totally fill all my mags, & even then I wouldn't alternate-the fmj would be used as filler & would be the very last to be fired after I had burned thru all the hp. |