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Posted: 7/15/2017 10:16:08 PM EST


Are they worth doing? If so, how many sets and reps to build mass?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 3:08:42 AM EST
Absolutely...but don't bounce like most people do when they do laterals.

I use a very strict form and pull all the way through and as high as I can and hold in the contracted position at the top for a few seconds...and keep pulling.

I alternate between seated bent over laterals and doing them while laying (face down) on an inclined bench (less body language and isolates the rear delts); again, pull all the way through as far as I can.

When doing seated laterals I finish (extend) my sets with what I call bent arm laterals: 90° bend in the elbows, dumbbells just above knees/thighs, keep arms bent at 90° and raise elbows toward the ceiling.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 3:29:34 AM EST
People usually mess these up by using too much weight, use a weight that allows you to have controlled movement up and down, if you have to jerk the weights to get them up, the dumbbells are too heavy for you.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:07:57 PM EST
Waste of time

better results from mass sets of pull-ups (various styles) and dips

This also works your torso and even your waist a little

Your a simian creature, you build arm strength by climbing trees IE pullups in modern speak


10 sets of 5 to get you started, or until sore

Rest a few minutes between sets to get glycogen back
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:11:48 PM EST
Yes - I prefer to do these standing up.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 3:56:59 PM EST
Doesn't OHP already hit all three heads of the delt?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 8:35:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
When doing seated laterals I finish (extend) my sets with what I call bent arm laterals: 90° bend in the elbows, dumbbells just above knees/thighs, keep arms bent at 90° and raise elbows toward the ceiling.
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What's the rationale for the bent arm laterals? Number of sets/reps?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 8:36:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By peligro113:
People usually mess these up by using too much weight, use a weight that allows you to have controlled movement up and down, if you have to jerk the weights to get them up, the dumbbells are too heavy for you.
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Roger.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 8:50:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RealFitness86:
Waste of time
better results from mass sets of pull-ups (various styles) and dips
This also works your torso and even your waist a little
Your a simian creature, you build arm strength by climbing trees IE pullups in modern speak
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Originally Posted By RealFitness86:
Waste of time
better results from mass sets of pull-ups (various styles) and dips
This also works your torso and even your waist a little
Your a simian creature, you build arm strength by climbing trees IE pullups in modern speak
Yeah, that's pretty much been my thinking, too. Only trouble is, my muscles are too weak to do pullups.
My only available options for "pulling" exercises are recline rows, and bent over, one arm, dumbbell rows.

Originally Posted By RealFitness86:
10 sets of 5 to get you started, or until sore
Rest a few minutes between sets to get glycogen back
I've been doing self-assisted dips, currently 4 sets x 11 reps, with approx. 1.5 minutes rest between sets.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 9:17:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Doesn't OHP already hit all three heads of the delt?
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There seems to be conflicting ideas on whether it hits all three, or just the front and side.



Link Posted: 7/17/2017 2:47:48 AM EST
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Originally Posted By stanc:

There seems to be conflicting ideas on whether it hits all three, or just the front and side.

http://upl.stack.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/23133035/Military-Press-Muscles-Worked-STACK.jpg

http://publish.uwo.ca/~eortizde/UWOFitnessWebsite/images/militarypress.jpg
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It doesn't do much for the rear delts and most people have significantly underdeveloped rear delts compared to the rest of their shoulders.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 2:54:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By stanc:
What's the rationale for the bent arm laterals? Number of sets/reps?
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
When doing seated laterals I finish (extend) my sets with what I call bent arm laterals: 90° bend in the elbows, dumbbells just above knees/thighs, keep arms bent at 90° and raise elbows toward the ceiling.
What's the rationale for the bent arm laterals? Number of sets/reps?
They are slightly easier than the regular form, so you can squeeze out a few more at the end of the regular set plus it really sets the "burn" in your medial delts.

I tend to do lighter weights/higher reps: 3 or 4 sets of 12 or 15.

Your shoulder muscles are relatively small muscles, are fatigued relatively easily and don't need a lot of extra direct work since they are doing a lot of indirect work in other exercises (pull ups/downs, rows, bench, presses, etc.).

If you injure your shoulder(s), you'll be screwed.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 6:53:34 PM EST
My two cents (might not even be worth two cents) is that isolations on the smaller muscles should either be used as warmup/pre-hab or for guys that really want to focus on bodybuilding and are already pretty far along.

If you are doing assisted dips and rows, there is a good way to go before having to worry about stuff like lateral raises unless you are doing them extremely light as part of the warmup for them.

I would focus more on stuff like inverted rows to help with the pullups and feet on the ground dips working up to full ones. Along with the OHP and BB or Dumbell rows, I would imagine the delts will see plenty of stimulation.
Link Posted: 7/18/2017 1:34:52 AM EST
I do the opposite in a more "normal" protocol: fatigue the shoulders (in this case) with "big" compound movements then finish with easier to do/lighter weight finishing movements.
Link Posted: 7/18/2017 5:01:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
They are slightly easier than the regular form, so you can squeeze out a few more at the end of the regular set plus it really sets the "burn" in your medial delts.

I tend to do lighter weights/higher reps: 3 or 4 sets of 12 or 15.
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Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/18/2017 5:28:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
My two cents (might not even be worth two cents) is that isolations on the smaller muscles should either be used as warmup/pre-hab or for guys that really want to focus on bodybuilding and are already pretty far along.
If you are doing assisted dips and rows, there is a good way to go before having to worry about stuff like lateral raises unless you are doing them extremely light as part of the warmup for them.
I would focus more on stuff like inverted rows to help with the pullups and feet on the ground dips working up to full ones. Along with the OHP and BB or Dumbell rows, I would imagine the delts will see plenty of stimulation.
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I tried inverted rows a few years ago. There's only one place in the complex with a suitable horizontal bar, and I found them to be rather a pain in the ass to do, so I switched to recline rows.



I really enjoyed doing recline rows, but after a couple years I developed increasing (tendon?) pain in one elbow, so switched to bent over, dumbbell rows, and the pain gradually disappeared.

FWIW, the way I do "self-assisted" dips is with my feet on the floor. Similar to shown below, except with my hands on parallel bars instead of a bench:

Link Posted: 7/19/2017 9:42:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
I do the opposite in a more "normal" protocol: fatigue the shoulders (in this case) with "big" compound movements then finish with easier to do/lighter weight finishing movements.
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Same for me for the occasional times that I feel like adding these in at the end of a shoulder workout.

When I do, I'll do 4 sets or so of 15reps without rest for an end of workout pump.
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 3:52:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2017 3:53:05 PM EST by H46Driver]
After hearing about it on a Joe Rogan podcast, I added in Cuban Press as an accessory to standing military press. I keep it light and do 3-4 sets of 10-12 after .mil press.

Link Posted: 7/22/2017 4:09:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
I use a very strict form and pull all the way through and as high as I can and hold in the contracted position at the top for a few seconds...and keep pulling.
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Same way I did them for decades until a motorcycle accident seven years ago. The problem is that I never got stronger at them after the first year. Anyone here still making progress using laterals?z
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 7:42:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2017 7:55:48 AM EST by 03RN]
Absolutely worth it.

I don't bring my arms higher than 90° and I try to keep my pinkies slightly raised.

I always do my heavy presses first than do my supplemental work. I do 3ish sets of 6-12 reps of both.

Being such small muscles it's more about focusing on the heads.

And no, climbing trees won't work the shoulders the same way
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 12:52:35 PM EST
After hitting 165 for the first time in nearly a decade on overhead press this past Monday, I added dumbbell Y presses to the routine for one of my accessory exercises.  Talk about a humbling experience because my shoulders were tired.    I also performed standing bent over laterals with my palms facing away from me to try some thing different than my old routine.  I noticed that with my palms facing away from me, my laterals tracked better than with my palms facing my sides...

My old routine used to be OHP, rear deltoid fly on the pec deck, and standing lateral raises.  This is the week that I started changing my accessory exercises up and I do that about every 8 weeks, depending on my mood.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 4:37:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Doesn't OHP already hit all three heads of the delt?
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Primarily the front. The side to a small degree. Obviously if you've the ability to do behind the neck you'll get more side and rear delt activation but this causes issues for many people. The lateral raise is probably the best shoulder movement there is. Most chest movements activate the front delt so basically you just need to target the side and rear delt.




I haven't done any presses in a long time. All I do for shoulders are lateral raises and rear delt flies. Oh, and sometimes I do a DB upright row/fly mix.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 3:29:57 PM EST
I've never felt anything hit my rear delts as much as behind the neck press.
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