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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/30/2005 1:29:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 1:30:15 PM EDT by sam1963]
Do you think that the United States will have to reinstate the draft ?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:32:06 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:32:31 PM EDT
Yes because, you know, millions of our soldiers are dying in Iraq.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:32:49 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:47:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:55:11 PM EDT

Draft ?



I don't feel it, but if you're bothered go shut the window.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:55:49 PM EDT
No. That is probably the only thing that would make leftwing liberals take up arms -- they would shoot to keep their kids from being drafted.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:57:27 PM EDT

Draft ?


Always better than bottle or can!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:08:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:20:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



AMEN! They wont reinstate the draft, and they dont need to, but it would be the best thing to happen to the kids in the long run.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:39:46 PM EDT
I doubt it, they rejected me every time I tried to join.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
The military has been actively REDUCING the amount of personell needed overall. Yes, they sometimes have trouble filling SPECIFIC MOSs, but we are no where near any kind of crisis that would require a draft.



This is true to a certain extent, but force reductions have led to an increased reliance on reserve and guard forces. That's fine if you have one conflict every 10 years or so that need them, but if you are entering a long period of sustained military operations (which we probably are), then relying on reserve forces probably isn't the best plan.

Still though, we'll move to extensive outsourcing and increased pay for retention long before we would consider a draft.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:06:33 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:09:36 PM EDT
Hell, they can't afford to pay us now and are kicking us out left and right for anything! There is absolutely zero chance of a draft. They are downsizing bigtime.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:14:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



So if freedom is free, what's with all these taxes we have to pay?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:30:01 PM EDT
Not a chance in hell.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:37:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
No. That is probably the only thing that would make leftwing liberals take up arms -- they would shoot to keep their kids from being drafted.



While the rightwing conservatives willingly delivery their children to be sacreficed on George Bush's altar?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:57:21 PM EDT
I disagree with a draft, because draftees are typically useless and get somebody hurt.

On the other hand, if there was a draft a lot of the useless students in my class would be off being useless somewhere else. Far away from me.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:38:33 PM EDT
I am in the military, because I chose to serve, but a draft is bullshit, period. A draft is exactly the opposite of what this country stands for, and exactly the opposite of what I CHOSE to be in the military to protect.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:40:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



Sorry, my kids aren't cannon fodder. If they join it will be because they want to, not because the government decrees it can enslave them.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:46:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Draft ?


Always better than bottle or can!



At a bar, yes. When Joe Schmo has a party and buys a keg, hell no.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:58:24 AM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:06:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:06:52 AM EDT
C'mon, someone here has that pic that's captioned something like "After meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, President George Bush decides on a draft."
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:16:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



I agree it might help the country in that regard, but shudder at what it might do to the military.

We are set up now in a system much different now than we had back when we had a draft, one that works because the people that are in, for the most part, want to be there. Having to have our NCO's go back to babysitting a bunch of draftees who are only going to just enough to get by untill thier time is done will distract them, and the rest of the leaders, from the real missions. Imagine as a commander if 50-70% of your soldiers didn't even want to be soldiers...... hell the 2-5% like that now in a unit distract a very disporportionate amount of the unit leaderships time from other tasks, imagine how much worse it would be with a draft.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:19:08 AM EDT
It's too much to hope that George Bush and Halliburton would draft intertnet trolls first....
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:25:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:36:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:38:29 AM EDT by EternalVigilance]

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



I agree it might help the country in that regard, but shudder at what it might do to the military.

We are set up now in a system much different now than we had back when we had a draft, one that works because the people that are in, for the most part, want to be there. Having to have our NCO's go back to babysitting a bunch of draftees who are only going to just enough to get by untill thier time is done will distract them, and the rest of the leaders, from the real missions. Imagine as a commander if 50-70% of your soldiers didn't even want to be soldiers...... hell the 2-5% like that now in a unit distract a very disporportionate amount of the unit leaderships time from other tasks, imagine how much worse it would be with a draft.


I agree that it would be very difficult on the Army. We would have to return to the iron-clad discipline of the old days. But you wouldn't have to cut soldiers out for college classes, either.
My re-enlistment numbers wouldn't matter. Also, you could be selective who you re-enlist. No more begging duds to hang around.

But, lets look big picture. the biggest threat to the constitution we both swore to defend is from internal threats. Imagine if some of these snot nosed little college brats learned about duty, honor and country. Learned that those ignorant red-necks are just as smart as they are and will save your ass better than any urbanite fuck.
Imagine the liberal pukes actually meeting a black man and realising that blacks don't need your fucking help to get ahead.
Imagine a country of veterans instead of a country of people with their hand outs.
The Army serves the country (something we forget at times) I can't think of a better thing for the country.
Post War periods have traditionally been periods of growth and advancement for the country. Maybe that has to do with a country filled with veterans?



those are all good points. The problem is, conscription flies in the face of the concept of individual soveirgnty. Conscription is the epitomy of collectivism if you ask me.



put it this way. I am in the military because I want to be. Try to draft me though and there's going to be a stand-off. Slavery is bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:51:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:53:57 AM EDT
No. But they should. I think WWII was more populare because every family in the USA had a stake in the war. Right now we have the best military in the world and we are fighting a very difficult war, a very difficult way, and doing it very well, with very few casulties for us.

Thanks to the partisianship of the Democrats, this is not possible. We should have doe this from the get-go.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:55:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



AMEN! They wont reinstate the draft, and they dont need to, but it would be the best thing to happen to the kids in the long run.



Would probably cut back immigration too! Good for us in so many ways.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:56:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
No. That is probably the only thing that would make leftwing liberals take up arms -- they would shoot to keep their kids from being drafted.



While the rightwing conservatives willingly delivery their children to be sacreficed on George Bush's altar?



Spoken like a true bed wetter!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:59:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
No. But they should. I think WWII was more populare because every family in the USA had a stake in the war. Right now we have the best military in the world and we are fighting a very difficult war, a very difficult way, and doing it very well, with very few casulties for us.

Thanks to the partisianship of the Democrats, this is not possible. We should have doe this from the get-go.



The majority of those who fought in WWII were draftee's the first war that the US actually had more volunteers than draftees was Vietnam.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:05:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
I disagree with a draft, because draftees are typically useless and get somebody hurt.

On the other hand, if there was a draft a lot of the useless students in my class would be off being useless somewhere else. Far away from me.



You may want to tell that to the millions who fought in WWII and were drafted and might add fought very well. Sylvan hit the nail on the head. It is possible to train and make them very effective but you must return to the discipline of old, the generation that asks why about everything would find this very hard to take
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:29:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
I disagree with a draft, because draftees are typically useless and get somebody hurt.

On the other hand, if there was a draft a lot of the useless students in my class would be off being useless somewhere else. Far away from me.




You are so full of shit !! Take a tour of Arlington and the Wall and tell all the WWII , Korean , and RVN dead Draftees how typically useless they were. I spent 18 months in the Zone and saw many of my best friends and Damn good troopers buy it and these Men were the best of the Best! Motherfuckers like you are are so fucking ignorant ...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:49:34 PM EDT
A draft would be unconstitutional, there is no indentured servitude in the US.

A draft to fight a foreign war of choice is morally reprehensible and it just isn't going to happen.

A volunteer army is the way to go, makes for a more professional force and places limits on the actions government can take, they must make the case to the people that the war is worth our blood, otherwise they don't get the volunteers they need.

I think using the reserves and even more so the guard in a foreign war of choice is a bad way to go about things, we need the guard here. I'm also not fond of the idea of using private contractors at public expense, seems to me it's a better plan to pay regular army better and get more volunteers,but that's another issue.

There is a duty that goes along with being a citizen, but it stops at the border, defending the nation from invasion is one thing, going overseas to spread democracy is a job for volunteers.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:00:50 PM EDT
Being Drafted is not slavery(slaves arnt paid), nor is it "cannon fodder". I would hate to think what the Vets that were drafted and served honorably would say to those statements. Just like I dont think that Iam a slave or "cannon fodder". No I didnt get drafted and I really don't think we need the draft but if It came down to a draft to protect our way of life and country I would give my only son(or daughter) for that. Yes this country would be better off with a draft. Most fuckers could stand a bit of disapline. And to the individual that would not want to "enslave" their children and want them to become "fodder" you are welcome that people like me and others are around so that they don't have to be "fodder".
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:07:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MilTrainInstructor:
Being Drafted is not slavery(slaves arnt paid), nor is it "cannon fodder". I would hate to think what the Vets that were drafted and served honorably would say to those statements. Just like I dont think that Iam a slave or "cannon fodder". No I didnt get drafted and I really don't think we need the draft but if It came down to a draft to protect our way of life and country I would give my only son(or daughter) for that. Yes this country would be better off with a draft. Most fuckers could stand a bit of disapline. And to the individual that would not want to "enslave" their children and want them to become "fodder" you are welcome that people like me and others are around so that they don't have to be "fodder".



I served for over a decade so my kids wouldn't be forced to. My kids don't belong to the government.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:45:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



I agree it might help the country in that regard, but shudder at what it might do to the military.

We are set up now in a system much different now than we had back when we had a draft, one that works because the people that are in, for the most part, want to be there. Having to have our NCO's go back to babysitting a bunch of draftees who are only going to just enough to get by untill thier time is done will distract them, and the rest of the leaders, from the real missions. Imagine as a commander if 50-70% of your soldiers didn't even want to be soldiers...... hell the 2-5% like that now in a unit distract a very disporportionate amount of the unit leaderships time from other tasks, imagine how much worse it would be with a draft.


I agree that it would be very difficult on the Army. We would have to return to the iron-clad discipline of the old days. But you wouldn't have to cut soldiers out for college classes, either.
My re-enlistment numbers wouldn't matter. Also, you could be selective who you re-enlist. No more begging duds to hang around.

But, lets look big picture. the biggest threat to the constitution we both swore to defend is from internal threats. Imagine if some of these snot nosed little college brats learned about duty, honor and country. Learned that those ignorant red-necks are just as smart as they are and will save your ass better than any urbanite fuck.
Imagine the liberal pukes actually meeting a black man and realising that blacks don't need your fucking help to get ahead.
Imagine a country of veterans instead of a country of people with their hand outs.
The Army serves the country (something we forget at times) I can't think of a better thing for the country.
Post War periods have traditionally been periods of growth and advancement for the country. Maybe that has to do with a country filled with veterans?



those are all good points. The problem is, conscription flies in the face of the concept of individual soveirgnty. Conscription is the epitomy of collectivism if you ask me.



put it this way. I am in the military because I want to be. Try to draft me though and there's going to be a stand-off. Slavery is bullshit.


Agree on many points.
But the country has changed.
Gone are the days of, "I don't want anything from the government and they ain't getting anything from me."
1. We are at war. Everybody has a vested interest in the defense of our country.
2. You don't want to serve, fine. But you will get nothing from the government. No unemployment. No federal insurance for banks. No medicare. No college loans for your kids. No federal scholarships. No disability.
3. Its not slavery. Its service to your country. And thats the problem. Nobody thinks they should forced to serve, yet 90% of all citizens receive some sort of federal benefit. they get something for nothing and that is destroying the country.



Just because the socialists / marxists, robin-hoods, and people who want to effectively steal from you at gunpoint and redistribute wealth seem to be winning the political battle in this country doesn't mean that I am not a FREE MAN. FREE does not mean forcing you to either go into the military, go to jail, leave your property for another country, or be shot if you refuse. People who support a draft need to fucking figure out who's side they are on.


To answer your number 3, it is service to your country if you choose to do it. If someone is forcing you then it is slavery.


I love my country and I will die for it if need be. Fuck I work shitty hours for shit pay all week long to protect this nation from nuclear threats and to ensure communication between those who make the decisions. I do it because I want to and I believe in it. Period. The reason I believe in it is because I believe in something called freedom. CONSCRIPTION is a blatant violation of a persons freedom, autonomy, and rights as granted by God and protected by the US Constitution. We are not fucking subjects.

I agree that everyone SHOULD serve at least one enlistment when they are young. But if you start FORCING people to serve then what exactly are you fucking protecting?? Not freedom. Think about it. I understand emotionally where you all are coming from. But you have to think about principles here. Where is the pride in serving if you were forced to do it? I don't want conscripts joining my family. I only want people who want and deserve to be here.



As for the comment about drafting a daughter in another post......

I am sure that most of you will be absolutely dismayed to hear that there are people out there (liberal dousche-bags and feminists) pushing to have women included in selective service. This absolutely makes my blood boil. I am not saying that women aren't capable, if they want to they can, but forcing women into the military?????? WTF...I serve so that my sister, my mother, my wife, and (someday) my daughter doesn't have to. I serve to protect them, that's why I'm in the fucking military. I'll be damned if any mother-fucker ever thinks they are going to "draft" my daughter or my wife. Its not likely but its pretty fucked up to think that it could happen one day. I can garaun-damn-tee that if anyone ever tries to come get them for the draft there will be gun-fire. Same as I'll kill a piece of shit fascist, communist, or terrorist coming for them, I'll kill anyone else. I won't forget why I am in the military and why I follow orders, and its not for the sake of doing so in itself. It is to protect the things that I love and care about, freedom, the Constitution which protects that freedom, and my family.


A draft is the antithesis of any belief in autonomy and freedom. I know that you all believe in and love what this country stands for as much as I do, and I beg you to reconsider this and think about it more philosophically and in terms of principle, of right and wrong, of the long-term, and not just expediency today.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:47:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Best thing that could happen to this country, therefore it won't happen.
To 95% of Americans, freedom is absolutely free.
They won't serve, their kids won't serve and they don't care.
A draft might bring some ownership back to the citizens of this country.

But it isn't needed, nor do I see it being required in the near future.



So if freedom is free, what's with all these taxes we have to pay?



Roads, etc
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:49:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 2:52:28 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]

Originally Posted By MilTrainInstructor:
Being Drafted is not slavery(slaves arnt paid), nor is it "cannon fodder". I would hate to think what the Vets that were drafted and served honorably would say to those statements. Just like I dont think that Iam a slave or "cannon fodder". No I didnt get drafted and I really don't think we need the draft but if It came down to a draft to protect our way of life and country I would give my only son(or daughter) for that. Yes this country would be better off with a draft. Most fuckers could stand a bit of disapline. And to the individual that would not want to "enslave" their children and want them to become "fodder" you are welcome that people like me and others are around so that they don't have to be "fodder".





Are you a TI in San Antonio?



Sir Airmen EternalVigilance reports as ordered!



Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:50:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 2:51:51 PM EDT by STLRN]

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
Agree on many points.
But the country has changed.
Gone are the days of, "I don't want anything from the government and they ain't getting anything from me."
1. We are at war. Everybody has a vested interest in the defense of our country.
2. You don't want to serve, fine. But you will get nothing from the government. No unemployment. No federal insurance for banks. No medicare. No college loans for your kids. No federal scholarships. No disability.
3. Its not slavery. Its service to your country. And thats the problem. Nobody thinks they should forced to serve, yet 90% of all citizens receive some sort of federal benefit. they get something for nothing and that is destroying the country.

Just because the socialists / marxists, robin-hoods, and people who want to effectively steal from you at gunpoint and redistribute wealth seem to be winning the political battle in this country doesn't mean that I am not a FREE MAN. FREE does not mean forcing you to either go into the military, go to jail, leave your property for another country, or be shot if you refuse. People who support a draft need to fucking figure out who's side they are on.


To answer your number 3, it is service to your country if you choose to do it. If someone is forcing you then it is slavery.


I love my country and I will die for it if need be. Fuck I work shitty hours for shit pay all week long to protect this nation from nuclear threats and to ensure communication between those who make the decisions. I do it because I want to and I believe in it. Period. The reason I believe in it is because I believe in something called freedom. CONSCRIPTION is a blatant violation of a persons freedom, autonomy, and rights as granted by God and protected by the US Constitution. We are not fucking subjects.

I agree that everyone SHOULD serve at least one enlistment when they are young. But if you start FORCING people to serve then what exactly are you fucking protecting?? Not freedom. Think about it. I understand emotionally where you all are coming from. But you have to think about principles here. Where is the pride in serving if you were forced to do it? I don't want conscripts joining my family. I only want people who want and deserve to be here.



As for the comment about drafting a daughter in another post......

I am sure that most of you will be absolutely dismayed to hear that there are people out there (liberal dousche-bags and feminists) pushing to have women included in selective service. This absolutely makes my blood boil. I am not saying that women aren't capable, if they want to they can, but forcing women into the military?????? WTF...I serve so that my sister, my mother, my wife, and (someday) my daughter doesn't have to. I serve to protect them, that's why I'm in the fucking military. I'll be damned if any mother-fucker ever thinks they are going to "draft" my daughter or my wife. Its not likely but its pretty fucked up to think that it could happen one day. I can garaun-damn-tee that if anyone ever tries to come get them for the draft there will be gun-fire. Same as I'll kill a piece of shit fascist, communist, or terrorist coming for them, I'll kill anyone else. I won't forget why I am in the military and why I follow orders, and its not for the sake of doing so in itself. It is to protect the things that I love and care about, freedom, the Constitution which protects that freedom, and my family.


A draft is the antithesis of any belief in autonomy and freedom. I know that you all believe in and love what this country stands for as much as I do, and I beg you to reconsider this and think about it more philosophically and in terms of principle, of right and wrong, of the long-term, and not just expediency today.


Unfortunately, for your view those who have the authority to determine what is and isn't constitutional have already settled this and said you are incorrect. And on the second part, I would love to see that, I personally think you are BSing about that. You don't know how often I hear people say that along with "if the country was every attacked, I would join up" but as has been seen they always find a reason not to.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:52:38 PM EDT
I think heinlein said it best. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then let it fall.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:24:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
I think heinlein said it best. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then let it fall.



I dont want it to fall. This is my home. And I think everyone must step up when called to when your country comes under attack. Iam not saying to start a draft for Iraq or Afgainistan. Everyone here makes a valid point. I don't foresee a draft ever. But when the chips are down and someones army is off the coast of the U.S. I sure hope that people will volunteer. But when they dont its time to pay the price. If ya dont want to or dont wanna send the kids, than get the hell and don't come back. And I too don't wanna see my kids go to war or get drafted but its your duty to.
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