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Posted: 2/17/2012 5:25:58 PM EDT
Maybe for something like a PKM, 1919, or a minigun.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:28:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 5:29:54 PM EDT by Kharn]
I've heard it said they have disallowed larger stuff, like Mk19s and M2s due to no legitimate police use. I could see a M134 also being denied, but an M60 would be well within the realm of reasonable for a police force (to go on one of the free APCs from Uncle Sugar)

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:34:04 PM EDT
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I've heard it said they have disallowed larger stuff, like Mk19s

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I don't know, full auto less lethal/tear gas deployment would be pretty fucking fun.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:36:34 PM EDT
Why is the ATF even allowed to attend a firearms trade show?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:37:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.

Link?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:40:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 5:42:29 PM EDT by eastTXhunter]
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:43:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why is the ATF even allowed to attend a firearms trade show?
Because we are part of a highly regulated hobby and SHOT is focused on FFLs, so it is the perfect time to catch a large number of SOTs at one time.

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.

That would require a CFR change, which would require a Notice, Comment Period, etc., before being enacted.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:51:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.

That would require a CFR change, which would require a Notice, Comment Period, etc., before being enacted.


Rules are for suckers....and little people.


"if you want to make an omlette you have to break some eggs.."
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:58:55 PM EDT
They approved a post sample sear for my Tippman 1919, but disallowed the MG42 that I had on the same list. Said that a County Sheriff didn't need a belt fed weapon.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:59:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.

That would require a CFR change, which would require a Notice, Comment Period, etc., before being enacted.


ya, something just doesn't sound right with that.............how else would an NFA dealer demo a gun to an agency? why would an agency want to buy before even seeing a weapon?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:50:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:02:55 PM EDT
http://blog.princelaw.com/2012/01/20/shot-show-2012-atf-town-hall-meeting-and-nfatca-meeting-dealers-and-manufacturers-take-notice/

Paragraph 8

Also, ATF has now stated that after having the Department of Justice (DOJ), Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) review 18 U.S.C. § 922, it has been decided by OLC that a manufacture may stockpile as many post-86 machineguns as that manufacturer sees fit; however, only the manufacturer may manufacture the post-86 machinegun. What this means, is that it is no longer acceptable or legal, even if the manufacturer has a variance approving the following, for one manufacturer to manufacture the receiver, register the receiver on a Form 2, and then transfer the receiver on a Form 3 to another manufacturer for completion. The OLC has determined that the only transfer of a post-86 machinegun is to a law enforcement agency. There are clearly other concerning issues with regards to this that I will not address, in the hopes that they have eluded ATF.

The speculation is that this will be used to stop all dealer to dealer post 86 transfers. ATF would not comment on that one way or another at the show.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 8:13:52 PM EDT by discworld717]
Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
The days of transfers are over from what I understand. ATF put out at SHOT that there were no more dealer samples, the only place posties could be transferred to was a .gov agency. Not to other dealers.

If I misunderstood someone please clarify their info release for me.

That would require a CFR change, which would require a Notice, Comment Period, etc., before being enacted.


ya, something just doesn't sound right with that.............how else would an NFA dealer demo a gun to an agency? why would an agency want to buy before even seeing a weapon?


How would FA get to swat? The are thousands of small depts across the country that have and use NFA classified items. I live in Podunk USA and the local have M16's and DD's. This just doesn't make sense. How would Colt sell guns or SW?Read Blue's above post makes as much sense as anything they do.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:18:33 PM EDT
I would bet (and it has been speculated that this is the case by guys that are bigger and more well connected with ATF) the intent is to close down the smaller dealers. If it does turn out that ATF will not approve dealer to dealers post 86 transfers, the Agencies have to buy from a MFG now. No more cool toys for the small time NFA dealer. The MFG makes the guns and sells it to .gov. No more marking variances and as I posted the OLC has made this determination. It doesn't have to go through a CFR change. Once again they are interpreting this new guidance as stated in the release.

I am sure the bigger MFG and NAFICA are behind it protecting their turf, but that is just my take on it.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:36:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:52:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By krpind:
I'm surprised this isn't the case anyway.

Dealer gets a LEO to sign he wants to demo a MP5 with no intention of actually buying any and then the dealer has a new MP5 to "play" with forever. If they have an indoor range, they can even rent them can't they?



Yes and no. They are required to give up, sell or destroy the unit when they end their license. Yes, I know of local stores that do rent Post Guns.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 9:01:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
I would bet (and it has been speculated that this is the case by guys that are bigger and more well connected with ATF) the intent is to close down the smaller dealers. If it does turn out that ATF will not approve dealer to dealers post 86 transfers, the Agencies have to buy from a MFG now. No more cool toys for the small time NFA dealer. The MFG makes the guns and sells it to .gov. No more marking variances and as I posted the OLC has made this determination. It doesn't have to go through a CFR change. Once again they are interpreting this new guidance as stated in the release.

I am sure the bigger MFG and NAFICA are behind it protecting their turf, but that is just my take on it.


They sure have fallen in love with "re interpreting" laws.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 9:30:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottedward58:
Originally Posted By BlueLogo:
I would bet (and it has been speculated that this is the case by guys that are bigger and more well connected with ATF) the intent is to close down the smaller dealers. If it does turn out that ATF will not approve dealer to dealers post 86 transfers, the Agencies have to buy from a MFG now. No more cool toys for the small time NFA dealer. The MFG makes the guns and sells it to .gov. No more marking variances and as I posted the OLC has made this determination. It doesn't have to go through a CFR change. Once again they are interpreting this new guidance as stated in the release.

I am sure the bigger MFG and NAFICA are behind it protecting their turf, but that is just my take on it.


They sure have fallen in love with "re interpreting" laws.

that sounds more like rewriting the law
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