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Posted: 5/13/2004 2:52:59 AM EST
I was in complete agreement with everyone here about the fact that the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners was being blown way out of proportion by the media... until I spoke to a friend of mine who happens to be a senior staffer for my congressman. After reviewing the media yesterday, the staff was made aware of the nature of the photos, and many of the pictures showed US soldiers sodomizing the prisoners.

While I still believe that the media has pushed this issue into another socialist crybaby circle jerk, I still have to wonder just what makes ass fucking some dirt eating arab okay?

Beating the shit out of the prisoners... okay. Torturing them... okay. Turning dogs loose on them... okay. Shocking them with electrical devices... okay. Humiliating them... okay.

Ass fucking them? .... Let's hear it all you homosexual despising ARFCOMERS! Is this okay too?

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:56:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:57:49 AM EST
I'll believe that happened when I see proof.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:58:34 AM EST
????

You support our male troops pleasuring themselves by placing their penis into the rectums of another male?

I thought homosexuality was ultra ultra bad.

I don't get it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
I'll believe that happened when I see proof.



You won't see proof until the photos are released.

The proof at this point is whether or not you believe the statements of multiple congresspersons.

My own congressman is hardcore conservative, Republican, and would have no reason to fabricate this.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:02:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:02:13 AM EST
No
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:04:17 AM EST
I refuse to discuss that topic with a character named "BenDover"!......
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:04:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 3:04:57 AM EST by Brohawk]
I think the title of this thread is a tad off target. It seems to betray an unrealistic, negative stereotype toward conservatives. Why on earth would anyone, conservative or otherwise, rationally think such a thing was good?

BTW, No.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:07:35 AM EST
Sodomization, NO. HECK no.

Humilitation, embasassment, degredation - if in a controlled environment, yes.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:07:50 AM EST
Would it make you feel better if I dropped Ultra from the title?

The point I was making is that yes, we can all sit here and armchair this thing. I am totally in favor of mistreatment of the prisoners -- they are POWs. They're supposed to be mistreated.

But I am not going to sit here and toss 100% kudos to the military and back them unconditionally when it appears that this is indeed what took place. Homosexual acts against prisoners by our troops, forced rapes in the rectum... I will never support it and the perpetrators should be tried and punished.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:08:09 AM EST
No
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:08:38 AM EST
Boy that is a tough one. As a Christian, the actions of an individual are different than the actions of a government. As an individual, wrong as hell. As the only way to extract information from an enemy, permissible. Remember, an individual should not actively kill others only in self defence. An army of a country is not bound by that principle. God judges individuals for eternity. He judges nations here and now. BTW sin is sin. There is no heiarchy of sin. Homosexuality is just a bunch of sins put together. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:13:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
I think the title of this thread is a tad off target. It seems to betray an unrealistic, negative stereotype toward conservatives. Why on earth would anyone, conservative or otherwise, rationally think such a thing was good?



Because for the last couple weeks they have been saying things like "f*** them", "who care", "they get what they deserve", "kill them all". They also have advocated killing Iraqi children because "they will just be future terrorists". So keeping that in mind, they would have no problem with sodomizing the prisoners.

Now if it were US soldiers being held...like when Jessica Lynch was captured, even the suggestion at rape these same people had the exact opposite opinion...stating that if even one hair on her head was harmed the whole place should be nuked.

It's become very obvious that a lot of people here want everything their way and will condem others for taking actions that they themselves freely admit they support...if it's in their own interest.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:16:29 AM EST

I am totally in favor of mistreatment of the prisoners -- they are POWs. They're supposed to be mistreated.


So when Jessica Lynch was captured you were cheering for the Iraqis hoping they would torture her? After all that's what they are supposed to do.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:18:34 AM EST
I can't say I'm ultraconservative, but sodomizing prisoners is wrong. There are accepted and prescribed methods clearly spelled out for interrogation. The biggest mistake we made was letting this out. It should have been handled internally. No pun intended. I believe that releasing any information concerning prisoners is counterproductive.

That said, I'd court martial any soldiers that sodomized or raped prisoners.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:18:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 3:18:49 AM EST by cyanide]
I think that there are many ways to "interrogate" a person without going near the stink hole. So no.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:19:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWIRE:

I am totally in favor of mistreatment of the prisoners -- they are POWs. They're supposed to be mistreated.


So when Jessica Lynch was captured you were cheering for the Iraqis hoping they would torture her? After all that's what they are supposed to do.



Why would I be cheering for the Iraqis? That's not what I said.

The point is that there is no incentive for either side to become a POW because it's a foregone conclusion that you won't be sharing cold beers with your captors. POW = mistreated.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:21:06 AM EST
Nope, I don't suppot it. We are "trying" to install democracy in Iraq. By opening the rape rooms up "BACK IN BUSINESS", it destorys our credibillity, and draws questions over everything we do.

Radical Islam will be fought. But being the good guys, we are required to follow the rules. Whether the enemy is right or wrong, our success in Iraq and the war on terror must not only be won on the battlefields, it must be won in the hearts and minds of the very people we are liberating.

Whether it was the Army Generals, the CIA army, or the NCOs that were condoning the treatment of prisoners, they have screwed us and our proud history of being liberators in the hearts and minds of all who watch Al-Jazerra.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:21:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:
Sodomization, NO. HECK no.

Humilitation, embasassment, degredation - if in a controlled environment, yes.




I concur. Sodomization is flat-out wrong.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:21:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mugzilla:
Nope, I don't suppot any of the stuff in the photos. We are "trying" to install democracy in Iraq. By opening the rape rooms up "BACK IN BUSINESS", it destorys our credibillity, and draws questions over everything we do.

Radical Islam will be fought. But being the good guys, we are required to follow the rules. Whether the enemy is right or wrong, our success in Iraq and the war on terror must not only be won on the battlefields, it must be won in the hearts and minds of the very people we are liberating.

Whether it was the Army Generals, the CIA army, or the NCOs that were condoning the treatment of prisoners, they have screwed us and our proud history of being liberators in the hearts and minds of all who watch Al-Jazerra.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:22:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Would it make you feel better if I dropped Ultra from the title?

The point I was making is that yes, we can all sit here and armchair this thing. I am totally in favor of mistreatment of the prisoners -- they are POWs. They're supposed to be mistreated.

But I am not going to sit here and toss 100% kudos to the military and back them unconditionally when it appears that this is indeed what took place. Homosexual acts against prisoners by our troops, forced rapes in the rectum... I will never support it and the perpetrators should be tried and punished.



Since when has it been ok to treat POWs like shit when you wear an American military uniform? I don't ever remember it being ok to abuse POWs.

What we have over there are not POWs. terrorists can't be POWs as they are not regular forces of the Iraqi military.

I have no problem with how these terrorist detainees are being treated. It be easier on us if they'd just line them up after they're done interogating them and shoot them though. They are unlawful combatants we can do that without breaking the "rules" of war.

Course if we do that than they'll start saying it's genocide or some other bullshit like that.

So to really answer your question BenDover I could give two fuzzy rats asses whats done to the terrorist fucktards that we are "abusing" in iraq. They are afforded no protections under the geneva conventions or any other convention. They made their bed, they can sleep in it now.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:30:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:31:18 AM EST
The only issue at this point is will the pentagon publicly release the photos and video tapes of the sexual assaults.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:33:06 AM EST
shoulda never accepted their surrender.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:33:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 3:35:31 AM EST by Va_Dinger]

I am totally in favor of mistreatment of the prisoners -- they are POWs. They're supposed to be mistreated.



Who posted this? I could not find this statement in anybodys post.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:33:39 AM EST
we can interrogate prisoners of war without stooping to the levels of a sexual deviant, i do not support or give a nod to the sexual abuse of any prisoner

most were terrorists, they should have been interrogated, or shot

we can conduct ourselves in this war with honor, and dignity
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:33:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWIRE:


It's become very obvious that a lot of people here want everything their way and will condem others for taking actions that they themselves freely admit they support...if it's in their own interest.



To my "Christian" brethen -

Swire is right. You may not like the truth being told to you, but he is right.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:35:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Quite frankly, I don't believe that claim.

Despite Clinton's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, (a mistake if ever there was one) there aren't very many gays in the military and even fewer would be in a position to get at detainees in Iraq.

Our men over there may be horny, but they're not THAT horny. Even if they were, I still can't imagine that they'd want to degrade themselves by engaging in any form of intimate contact with those terrorists.

I wouldn't even want to touch one by hand if I were wearing a glove.

I don't think our troops would, either.



Marines have raped young girls in Okinawa, more than once. Rape/Sodomy is more about power than sex.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:38:27 AM EST
I wouldn't say that I support prisoner abuse by any of our regular GI's. Now with that said. I will tell you. I don't much care if prisoners get interrogated/abused by people who are trained to do so in a effort to get needed intel. And I don't care how they go about it or what method they use.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:41:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 3:41:30 AM EST by ANGST]
Actually , if you read the report, the prisioners were sodomized with foriegn objects. I seriously don't think military guys would take pictures of them screwing another man , maybe a female prisioner (which there were accounts of).
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:41:37 AM EST
As most everyone else, I have not seen the pictures. Yet, it seems to me that pictures of such a nature would be just as embarassing for the US guards as they would be for the Iraqis. Why would our guys want to be in or take such pictures. Unless the description of the pictures is not accurate.

Until everything comes out, I am still inclined to give our guys the benefit of the doubt.

Also, since many if not most of these prisoners were not uniformed members of an enemy military, what is their true POW status, and does the Geneva convention treat them differently.

Above all else, I doubt that any of the prison abuse pictures will show any Americans decapitating any Iraqi.

ktm500
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:52:12 AM EST
"Do you ultra conservative guys support the sodomization of Iraqi prisoners by US troops? "


All reports I've seen have stated that there was no pictures or evidence that any " sodomization of Iraqi prisoners" occurred.

I don't support sodomization of highschool students at football camp and I don't support the alleged treatment on prisoners of war.



Something was going on in that prison and it was not interrogations. What it was, we may never know.

-LS
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:58:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 4:17:09 AM EST by tankdriver]
On the news last night, photos of rape are FAKE... They were pulled from a internet porn site and the site says they were actors and staged. The US goverment has asked for a retraction from all newspapers that printed this FALSE story...hinking.gif
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:02:01 AM EST
If a male sodomizes another male then he's a homo. Homos and women in the military do bad things. Just straight males beating jihadists senseless will suffice.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:04:40 AM EST
You mean personally sodomizing them? Not using a foreign object?

Yeah, that's f'd up if that is the case. Not that shoving a broomstick up someone's ass is normal, but doing a Ned Beatty on another dude is gay on a whole other level.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:30:50 AM EST
I heard that the CIA interrogation of Kahlid Shaik Mohamad involes strapping him to a board and lowering him underwater repeatedly until he talks.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:35:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Do you ultra conservative guys support the sodomization of Iraqi prisoners by US troops?




This from a member named "BenDover" ?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:37:39 AM EST
Several Congressmen and Senators have come out today and said the pictures show "simulated" intercourse.....

Have you seen the pictures yourself?

Or are you basing your outrage on someone else's outrage?

Seems to be a lot of that going around, especially in regards to the Nick Berg decapitation vid. I've watched the vid and it is rage inspiring. Some folks haven't seen it and say it's just another way to die.

They must picture a guillotine or something.......
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:40:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:44:11 AM EST
I dont believe it. I hear the pictures are fake.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:46:48 AM EST
Closet homosexuals. Not only should they be brought up on charges for prisoner mistreatment/Geneva Convention violations, but also for being gays in the milltary. The way I see it, Bush should not be held responsible for this... KLINTON SHOULD!!!! He's the one who said these depraved fucks could join in the first place.

The way I sees it they are going exactly where they want to be: Bubba's House of Ass Pounding Pleasure. They are living in a prison and are surrounded by prisoners [in Iraq], so it only makes sense that, given their intrinsic homosexual tendencies, they act out like the social misifts that they are. They simply slipped through the cracks and have been mistaken as soldiers up to this point.

Before the Iraqis got there they were probably humping eachother...
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:01:49 AM EST
Actually due to the nature of the actions I am surprised you didn't instead ask the "Ultra Liberals" the question. After all, many more of them support the act of sodomy than do conservatives.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:12:11 AM EST
no. there's a huge difference b/w using all means necessary to extract valuable info. and just torturing someone for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:35:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 5:37:57 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
no. there's a huge difference b/w using all means necessary to extract valuable info. and just torturing someone for the hell of it.



I totally agree. There is a HUGE difference and NO I absolutely do not support the idea of US troops sodomizing the prisoners.

BUT, we need to put this all into context.

First of all, we don't know for sure yet weather or not these photos are fakes. As many have pointed out, these photos may have come from porn sites. I would tend to agree with that, seeing as how I doubt any grunt in the military would want to homosexually rape another man (of course I could be wrong). Especially a dirty, scum of the earth piece of shit terrorist. Wouldn't it be ironic to find out that our congress was engaged in nothing more than looking at porn on capital hill? I'll reserve my final judgment until the facts are known.

Second, I find it ironic that our congress is in an outrage about THESE photos, but hardly a peep out of them about the Nick Berg video. IMO if they are conducting official meetings to basically look at porn, why aren't they calling an official meeting to watch the Nick Berg video? Hmmmmmm.......

Third, I find it also ironic that there is an outcry about how scumbag, fucking lowlife, terrorist pieces of shit are being practically mourned over by our congress when stuff like this happens EVERY DAY in probably almost EVERY prison in America to criminals that, for the most part, rank much higher on the totem pole of righteousness than these terrorist scum.

People need to realize that these people are EVIL! Plain and simple. They want us all murdered and wiped from the face of the earth. With that in mind I see nothing wrong with harsh interrogation, using any means necessary to extract information that can save the lives of American people. That doesn't mean I support the malicious torture of these scumbags for no other reason than to just torture them. If they are of no intelligence value and the sole purpose of the abuse was just for fun, then those responsible should be punished. Punished for committing sick and twisted (albeit far less sick and twisted than what they want to do to us...ie Nick Berg) acts against them, and punished for wasting time, resources, and precious prison space for more terrorists of intelligence value. In short, if they weren't of value they should have been taken out back and shot.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:17:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 2:22:36 PM EST by crashburnrepeat]

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I heard that the CIA interrogation of Kahlid Shaik Mohamad involes strapping him to a board and lowering him underwater repeatedly until he talks.

GunLvr



This works. You don't even have to lower them in water. Take a wet towel and tie it over their face and pour water on it. In EFAD they did this, I didn't think it sounded that bad.

But it is. Trust me


Oh and I don't think you need to sodomize people to get info out of them. I'd much rather see a good beating or the fake drowning myself. There are sooooo many other ways to make people's lives difficult without that. I don't have any problem with taking "deviant" pictures of iraqi prisoners to use to blackmail them for info (Bob Baer who wrote "see no evil" <-excellent book by the way, was on foxnews last night and said pictures of this nature would mean death by the tribe if they were released, so they seem like a relatively harmless, yet highly effective way to put enormous pressure on enemy combantants to speak.).

But sodomizing with lightsticks and whatnot- that's just disgusting. Even if an enemy soldier killed my best friend, there are worse ways to make him pay I think.

CBR.

CBR
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:31:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:31:50 PM EST
I wouldn't support it if it had happened, but the pics were apparently a hoax. No longer relevant.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:34:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
You support our male troops pleasuring themselves by placing their penis into the rectums of another male?

No.



Originally Posted By BenDover:
I thought homosexuality was ultra ultra bad.

IMO it's as "bad" as adultery. Free country - consenting adults can legally do as they please whether it's commit adultery or pack each others fudge.... but that doesn't make it right.

Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:36:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 2:38:04 PM EST
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