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Posted: 12/11/2013 3:45:09 PM EST
...then strip them down and see what makes them tick?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:47:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:48:59 PM EST
They buy a lot more than one of them also.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:49:23 PM EST
Of course.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:50:48 PM EST
Based on my latest experience with Hertz, they rent them for the destructive testing and then reassemble and return.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:51:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 4:01:18 PM EST by cmjohnson]
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:53:42 PM EST
Uh yeyas they do...I worked for a British 4wd mfr that was bought by a German car mfr for the sole purpose of building themselves a SUV that could go off road as well as the best 4x4 by far..

Some of you may get that I think. This of course is only my opinion
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:54:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.

View Quote


You mean my manual trans cars have design defects?

The grab handle is legit though
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:56:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.

View Quote


I've noticed a lot of "American" cars don't have this. My fiance's old POS Equinox didn't have one and I felt like using a utility handle from the hardware store and screwing it in with drywall screws. Fucking annoying as I'd reach for it and there was nothing there. My WRX has one over each door, including the drivers.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:58:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
...then strip them down and see what makes them tick?
View Quote


Yes. Someone posted an article to this effect a while back, or told of their knowledge of it. It was pretty interesting.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:58:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By America-first:
Of course.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:02:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brian4wd:

You mean my manual trans cars have design defects?

The grab handle is legit though
View Quote

Automatic transmission. Better?


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:03:07 PM EST
Where do you think Toyota gets the 2014 Tundra interior? They must buy F150's buy the trainload!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:07:36 PM EST
Yep. I can walk down the hallway at work and see the dissected remains of a Honda Insight, a high end Mercedes, and several other cars on display.

I have driven corporate owned, M-plated BMWs, but I don't work for BMW...
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:07:47 PM EST
Every one of them does . Not just car companies look at Ruger and the lcp or the new SR series guns that internally look like a Glock .

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:09:26 PM EST
how else would the Chinese ever figured out how to make a car. Most GM products are made in China FYI.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:10:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

Automatic transmission. Better?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:

You mean my manual trans cars have design defects?

The grab handle is legit though

Automatic transmission. Better?


Better but still lame.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:10:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 4:12:41 PM EST by toothandnail]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.

View Quote


WHY are you stiring around with the shifter on an AUTO while driving ? ? ? Doing reverse drops?
I can't remember ever needing to manually shift gears on an auto in the last 35 years

The Grab handle though is NECESSARY, saves the seat from wear, among others,

the others ? ?


can't say I've ever thought "that would be nice" . . . . . .

NOPE ,

never have.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:10:42 PM EST
Right down to screws, washers, and gaskets.

I have been in the teardown studios for one of the Big 3. They have all of the assemblies broken down and mounted on pegboards you can sign out to see how they go together (if you have need to know, of course). It seemed like they had pretty much every competing model available.

When the European style vans (Sprinter, Ford Transit, etc) started showing up in the US, the company I worked for had pretty much one of every model of tall, skinny van lining the hallway for a while as they got them torn down. There are more than you'd think. Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, and many others.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:11:43 PM EST
Mitsubishi rents cars from the Enterprise by their plant in Normal, IL all the time.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:13:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.

View Quote


Kind of sounds like you are really searching for reasons here
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:15:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ehaban:
how else would the Chinese ever figured out how to make a car. Most GM products are made in China FYI.
View Quote


What in the blue fuck? That is one of the biggest damned lies I have ever seen on this site. Got proof, or are you just spreading GM hate for the sake of spreading GM hate?

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:19:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 4:22:06 PM EST by Ohio_Bill]
Yes. There was a story about it in Wired a while back.

ETA: yes to the OP, not to the post above this.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:19:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

View Quote


My 2013 tundra doesn't have that. Yet my 06 did IIRC.

I miss it.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:20:13 PM EST
Sure do. I was at one of the tech centers for a major manufacturer to check the install/fit of our parts. It was where they did test fit of parts and testing of models what were 2+ years from mass production (like the cars you see wrapped in leather covers if you are ever in/around Detroit area). They had cars from multiple different other companies. Some complete, some in various stages of tear down.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:20:28 PM EST
They certainly do, they also spy on each other.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:23:09 PM EST
I know they also buy parts from other manufacturers to study them. There is a little Korean lady that comes to our parts department with lists, and buys/orders all kinds of parts for Hyundai/Kia to study.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:39:24 PM EST
I thought this was going to be about do Ford workers buy cars other than Fords for example. Yes they do. Drive by any union plant around here, Ford in these parts, and you'll see lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and Kias in the employee parking lots. I feel no guilt at all driving a VW considering how "disloyal" American auto workers are to their own industry.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:50:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toothandnail:


WHY are you stiring around with the shifter on an AUTO while driving ? ? ? Doing reverse drops?
I can't remember ever needing to manually shift gears on an auto in the last 35 years

The Grab handle though is NECESSARY, saves the seat from wear, among others,

the others ? ?


can't say I've ever thought "that would be nice" . . . . . .

NOPE ,

never have.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toothandnail:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.



WHY are you stiring around with the shifter on an AUTO while driving ? ? ? Doing reverse drops?
I can't remember ever needing to manually shift gears on an auto in the last 35 years

The Grab handle though is NECESSARY, saves the seat from wear, among others,

the others ? ?


can't say I've ever thought "that would be nice" . . . . . .

NOPE ,

never have.
No, no, no.

It'd just be so you can shift into the appropriate gear (usually DRIVE) without ever needing to look at the floor shifter's indicator.

This is the first car I've had with a 5 speed auto transmission. If I shift by feel alone SOMETIMES I still get into 4th instead of D.

Simply having the indicator on the instrument cluster is a nice convenience feature and particularly one that is well received by,
shall we say, less youthful drivers?

I haven't yet had any cause to actually use 4, 3, or 2. (1 is not selectable via the shifter on this car.) P, R, N, and D are sufficient
for all my driving.


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:52:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BP03:


Kind of sounds like you are really searching for reasons here
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BP03:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.



Kind of sounds like you are really searching for reasons here
No.

I had the Camry for many years and many miles. I got used to those conveniences.

They're not on my CTS and frankly I kind of miss them, but otherwise I really like my CTS a lot.


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:55:58 PM EST
yup......
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:59:12 PM EST
I know some that just rent them instead and then replace all of the components that they modified.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:59:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bud:
Based on my latest experience with Hertz, they rent them for the destructive testing and then reassemble and return.
View Quote



LOL.....I can neither confirm nor deny that statement.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:00:20 PM EST
I was at a Toyota plant and they were tearing a ford pickup apart to count spot welds and figure out some other tricks to make the vehicle stronger then Toyota did.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:03:47 PM EST
I've never worked in the auto industry, but in the electronic industry where I worked we did buy competitors offerings and dissect them.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:09:06 PM EST
Yes they do. I've seen a Honda Accord laid out on a bay floor like a plastic model car just taken out of the box.

...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:10:36 PM EST
Any industry does it to some extent. Lessons come from many places.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:11:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
I thought this was going to be about do Ford workers buy cars other than Fords for example. Yes they do. Drive by any union plant around here, Ford in these parts, and you'll see lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and Kias in the employee parking lots. I feel no guilt at all driving a VW considering how "disloyal" American auto workers are to their own industry.
View Quote



Several Honda assembly plants in my area. Plenty of American made vehicles in the parking lots there, along with other Japanese brands.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:14:21 PM EST
In the late 80s and early 90s The Delco Electronics Division of GM would tear apart Ford and Chrysler Electronic engine controls.

I got to see one that they were scraping the conformal coat off.

I assumed we got them from cars that one of the GM divisions bought, probably the General Motors Research people.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:16:00 PM EST
How do you think that the Japanese built the Zero?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:17:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
I thought this was going to be about do Ford workers buy cars other than Fords for example. Yes they do. Drive by any union plant around here, Ford in these parts, and you'll see lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and Kias in the employee parking lots. I feel no guilt at all driving a VW considering how "disloyal" American auto workers are to their own industry.
View Quote

I work for an oil company and noticed more than one Prius in the parking lot. I have no idea if we test competitors fuel additives or lubricants.

We don't own any gas stations near the refinery, so I buy gas sold under competing brands regularly. Our production goes to markets hundreds of miles away via pipeline and is not sold locally anyway.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:17:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 5:19:10 PM EST by Ragin_Cajun]
Not in the car biz but I've picked apart some competitors' products.

Everyone who can afford to, does, if they're serious about staying competitive.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:29:10 PM EST
Zippy,
Yes, absolutely. They'd be fools not to do that.


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:32:09 PM EST
Where do you think Chrysler pulled the modern "Hemi" from? They bought a bunch of GM LS1's and LQ9's and worked from there. Was one of the worst kept secrets among detroit area auto engineers when the hemi went back into production. Primarily because the chrysler engineers didnt remotely try to disguise the purchase.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:34:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mwieczorek:
Yep. I can walk down the hallway at work and see the dissected remains of a Honda Insight, a high end Mercedes, and several other cars on display.

I have driven corporate owned, M-plated BMWs, but I don't work for BMW...
View Quote
I know you guys want to be like BMW, but please don't, those things are becoming less and less reliable. You guys need to innovate instead of copy, the new Colorado is going to be a disaster, the 3.6 v6 engine is a pos too.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:49:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mwieczorek:
Yep. I can walk down the hallway at work and see the dissected remains of a Honda Insight, a high end Mercedes, and several other cars on display.

I have driven corporate owned, M-plated BMWs, but I don't work for BMW...
View Quote


You work for Hyundai?


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:57:27 PM EST
Corporate espionage. It's a thing.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:03:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:08:52 PM EST by Robinson1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toothandnail:


WHY are you stiring around with the shifter on an AUTO while driving ? ? ? Doing reverse drops?
I can't remember ever needing to manually shift gears on an auto in the last 35 years

The Grab handle though is NECESSARY, saves the seat from wear, among others,

the others ? ?


can't say I've ever thought "that would be nice" . . . . . .

NOPE ,

never have.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toothandnail:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course. Wouldn't YOU?

If you want to make a better car than your competitor, you have to really know your competitor's cars.

That doesn't explain, though, why a 2004 Cadillac CTS is missing three comfort and convenience features that
were standard equipment on a 1992 Toyota Camry.

1: Illuminated ignition key slot. You've got to FEEL your way to it at night.

2: Transmission gear indicator in the instrument cluster. (Auto trans) You have to look down at the shifter to confirm,
which may not be the best thing to do while driving.

3: Right front seat pull handle on the roof to assist "less able" passengers in getting in and out of the vehicle.



WHY are you stiring around with the shifter on an AUTO while driving ? ? ? Doing reverse drops?
I can't remember ever needing to manually shift gears on an auto in the last 35 years

The Grab handle though is NECESSARY, saves the seat from wear, among others,

the others ? ?


can't say I've ever thought "that would be nice" . . . . . .

NOPE ,

never have.


Tow many trailers? Pretty common to pull the selector down into first on an auto trans equipped truck before going up a steep driveway/gravel bank/boat ramp/ what ever. Keeps the tranny from up shifting if you over rev in a hard pull.

I wish Ford would reintroduce a manual. While the select-shift is nice and it does work pretty well, an auto equipped Super Duty is just stupid. (I own one by the way )


Actually if Ford would use the current F250 frame/suspension, the 2010 body, a mid 90's era 7.3L diesel, and a 6 speed Fuller transmission. It would be the perfect truck. What's the chances in getting that?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:07:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Private-Sectre:
Uh yeyas they do...I worked for a British 4wd mfr that was bought by a German car mfr for the sole purpose of building themselves a SUV that could go off road as well as the best 4x4 by far..

Some of you may get that I think. This of course is only my opinion
View Quote


I can promise you they didn't buy it for the electrical engineering.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:08:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
I thought this was going to be about do Ford workers buy cars other than Fords for example. Yes they do. Drive by any union plant around here, Ford in these parts, and you'll see lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and Kias in the employee parking lots. I feel no guilt at all driving a VW considering how "disloyal" American auto workers are to their own industry.
View Quote


the passat is us built.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:11:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midcap:


the passat is us built.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midcap:
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
I thought this was going to be about do Ford workers buy cars other than Fords for example. Yes they do. Drive by any union plant around here, Ford in these parts, and you'll see lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and Kias in the employee parking lots. I feel no guilt at all driving a VW considering how "disloyal" American auto workers are to their own industry.


the passat is us built.


Most auto workers are just paid labor. No pride or company loyalty. Its just a pay check for them.
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