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Posted: 10/11/2004 8:47:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:48:32 AM EST
pretty much
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:49:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 8:49:52 AM EST by WackyG]
"My religious belief teaches me that I am as safe in battle as I am in bed. God has fixed the time of my death. I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready, whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, then all men would be equally brave."

-Lt. Gen. Stonewall Jackson

+1 to Gen. Jackson
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:49:28 AM EST
the only death that I fear is at the jaws of 30 rabid, hungry chihuahuas while I'm tied to the desert floor.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:50:39 AM EST
Do I fear death?

no
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:51:00 AM EST
I fear what my death would do to my family. I don't fear BEING dead any more than I fear the vast millenia that occurred before I was born.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:52:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:52:18 AM EST
I fear dying in that I fear what I would miss with the rest of my life, and I fear the sadness that my friends and family would have. But as to what happenes afterwards, I have no fear.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:52:44 AM EST
Yes I fear death, but I fear Kerry more. Under Kerry, my death would be meaningless.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:52:51 AM EST
We fear the manner of death. We fear pain. We fear powerlessness.

I don't fear death. If you live long enough, you will learn that there are plenty of things out there worse than death.

As part of my call to serve Christ, I have accepted the responsibility to live my life in the best way possible. Through a life lived joyfully as taught by Christ, no matter what life condition I find myself in I am to serve Him. We are not to waste our lives or fear the life that is to come.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:54:54 AM EST
Yes but not as much as ending up like Chris Reeve. I kill myself everyday....then I fix it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:54:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:58:34 AM EST
To see me on a motorcycle, you would think I longed to die
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:58:37 AM EST
I don't fear death nearly as much as I fear the act of dying.

357mag
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:59:18 AM EST
I just hope I get caught up first
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:59:25 AM EST
I fear dying before my sons grow up to be men. Once that's done, no. Until then they are my charge and my duty.
Can't have them grow up to be namby pamby liberals, can I?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:01:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:04:45 AM EST by Palo_Duro]
Yes. And I think you're lying to yourself or are mentally deranged if you state otherwise.

Its natural to fear death.


edited to add: Its a basic instinctual survival tool.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:01:39 AM EST
I do not fear death as the end of my life. I do hope that I live longer so that I can see my children grow up and see my grandchildren.

It is not death I fear, but dying poorly and having left things unsaid and undone.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:03:35 AM EST
Well Steyr, old buddy, as you might expect, I am one of those that do not fear death at all.

I hope it is quick and relativeless painless (no pun intended), but after my eyes close in death, they will open in Heaven.

Like Paul, I must confess:

Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

He simply meant that, as a servant of Christ, my life has meaning as I live as His servant. But when I die, it will be to my benefit and eternal gain.

Like the old song says,

"When He calls me, I will answer, 'Here am I.'

I am ready, when He wants me to die.

I've a mansion, awaiting me on high.

And I'm going there, by and by."



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:03:40 AM EST
Athiesm embraces the absurd it states that nothing created us and to nothing we will return, "nothing" is a concept that lacks agency it is the total lack of the power to create or destroy. Reason dictates that obvious truth, something created us and to something we will return.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:05:24 AM EST
I do not fear death ... but I fear for my children if I were to die .... so, I need to stick around a while
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:05:41 AM EST
Fear death? hell no, it's the only certanty in life. It's all the stuff up until that point that I worry about.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:06:14 AM EST
Do I fear Death?

No

Do I want to Die?

No


There in lies the enigma
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:07:26 AM EST
I do not fear death, I fear dieing in a painful and miserable way.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:07:30 AM EST
Fear death? no… seen into his face already, he holds no fear for me now.

ANdy
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:14:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
We fear the manner of death. We fear pain. We fear powerlessness.

I don't fear death. If you live long enough, you will learn that there are plenty of things out there worse than death.

As part of my call to serve Christ, I have accepted the responsibility to live my life in the best way possible. Through a life lived joyfully as taught by Christ, no matter what life condition I find myself in I am to serve Him. We are not to waste our lives or fear the life that is to come.



A big +1 to that.

SteyrAUG, Ecclesiastes was written for you. It's the inspired realizations of a man (most seem to believe Solomon) who has everything, and sees that everything is not enough. Here are a few quotes which you all but wrote:

1:1-3 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:
"Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."
What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?

1:11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.

2:17-21 So I hated life, because the work that is done under the sun was grievous to me. All of it is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. And who knows whether he will be a wise man or a fool? Yet he will have control over all the work into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. This too is meaningless. So my heart began to despair over all my toilsome labor under the sun. For a man may do his work with wisdom, knowledge and skill, and then he must leave all he owns to someone who has not worked for it. This too is meaningless and a great misfortune.

3:19-22 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?
So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

6:7 All man's efforts are for his mouth,
yet his appetite is never satisfied.

12:13-14 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:15:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:19:58 AM EST
My buddy and I (both Christian believers) were talking about this the other day over burgers. We recently had a friend of ours die from a heart attack. He was only 30 y/o. He left behind a wife, and 2 year old and a newborn.

At one point my friend said something to the effect of, "Man, that's sad for Peter." (Peter is the dead guy)

My response was kindof, "Nah his pain is over or just begun. I don't know if he was Saved or not, but at this point there's nothing I can do for him. He's already gone. It's the family he left behind I'm concerned about."

Similarly my friend (who happens the be the guy who led me to Christ) asked, "Do you think you'll cry if I go first."

I countered, "Sure, but not for you. I'll feel sad for myself that I'll not have the pleasure of you're company until I go too."

All in all he was pretty shocked at my emotionless outlook on it, but he could agree with the logic of it. I guess he and I are like that. He's always been the artist and I've always been the scientist.

--------
As far as fear of death goes I am completely secure in that I know where I'm going and it doesn't concern me. Indeed in a strange way I look forward to it. I do NOT wish to hurry myself along, but I think the best way to put it is to quote a really good verse....

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Philippians 1:21

There are only two things about death that really concern me. One is getting my head sawed off by a Muslim. Not that specifically, but a painful death is not something anybody would wish for. Another thing I fear is being tortured. A man can only take so much torture before he is broken and then he'll do anything, even renounce his faith. In this I take comfort that He already owns me, and their's no way I can really renounce my Savior.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:20:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:20:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
I fear living poorly, timidly and futilely far more than I fear death.



This sums it up for me. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:21:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:25:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
I fear living poorly, timidly and futilely far more than I fear death.



This sums it up for me. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.



That says it well.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:26:12 AM EST
Those who have been shot at have a unique perspective. I am told these things happen at random and that it is not usually within your control, and their is little outside of common sense practices you can do to change this. Death is for the most part beyond your control!!!!!!!!! Live why you can and avoid the stupid stuff and things that dont offer some level control to you.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:26:24 AM EST
I fear the temporary separation from friends and loved ones.

But while i enjoy life on this earth quite well, and do NOT completely understand the finer points of the next life, I do NOT fear it....because I know it will be infinitely better in Heaven than on earth. And when I die........


Hallelujah, bye and bye, I'll fly away!


I hope to see you there, and pray that we can have a good laugh about silly earthly fears.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:31:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
I fear living poorly, timidly and futilely far more than I fear death.




Certainly things worse than death exists.

But even living purposefully, I will fear death in the end.

I may be quite willing to go at the time when it comes, but if it is truly the end it will be terrible.



And here we see one of the great evils that a naturalist view of the universe produces: The idea of life as a gigantic cosmic mistake. Within every man there is a desire for some sense of immortality, some idea that there must be something more to existence than what we see and hear around us now.

Yet that instinct is discouraged despite the fact that nothing in this universe has shown itself to be self-causing. Even big bang theory can only go so far as to say all of the universe exploded from a ball of matter and energy, but where all of that came from science cannot tell.

AUG -- There IS INDEED life after death. Human beings cannot be reduced to being merely the sum of their parts. I have seen healthy bodies lie in a vegetative state because the spark of life has gone out of them. I have seen bodies ravaged by time or accident or genetic disorder exceed the physical limitations placed on them.

We talk often of the human spirit, and in so doing we unwittingly acknowledge this basic truth: That there is more to us than meets the eye.

This spirit in us is the divine spark, the impartation of life from a source higher than ourselves.

The beauty of it all is that this Divine Source can indeed be known despite the pitiful state of mankind in general. We can go beyond the limitations of this earth and soar in the highest heavens with the One who made us. We can do this because He made us to fellowship with Him, and has provided the way in His Son and His Spirit to do so.

The Divine Personality who upholds all of existence is indeed real, and the possiblity of encountering Him IN THIS LIFE is just as real. All we must do is approach with an humble and contrite spirit, and we can know Him:

" 15For thus says the High and Lofty One
Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:
"I dwell in the high and holy place,
With him who has a contrite and humble spirit,
To revive the spirit of the humble,
And to revive the heart of the contrite ones. "

Isaiah 57
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:32:49 AM EST
I don't want to die, but I don't fear death.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:34:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:35:49 AM EST by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:34:58 AM EST
I dont fear death itself, but I do fear the possibility of living in eternal hell after death. I try to live my life the way God would want me to, but the possibility alone scares me.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:35:26 AM EST
I am an atheist, and do not believe in souls, spirits, or an afterlife. It would be great if there was life after death, but there is no verifiable, objective evidence for it, so it is nothing more than wishful thinking, IMHO.

That said...do I fear death???

I do not fear being dead as much as I fear not living a full life and enjoying all the experiences I want to enjoy. When you are dead, you don't know or care that you are dead, because you are DEAD. I plan to live as long as possible, and will use any means necessary to attain that goal, including cryonic suspension.

True immortality may not be possible, unless the universe is infinite...then and only then would an infinite lifespan be possible. I figure most of us would just get tired of life after a few thousand years, anyway...but you never know.

Given enough time (millions or billions of years), our species may find a way to "turn back the clock" on the universe...or perhaps jump through a wormhole into the past over and over again. We do not yet know enough about the universe to say it is impossible.

The best you can do for now is enjoy life while you're here, love your family and friends deeply and do right unto others, and try to leave the world a better place when you leave it than when you arrived.

Oh yeah...and vote Republican on November 2nd!


Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:36:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:40:44 AM EST
Not as much as I fear this:



CW
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:41:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Athiesm embraces the absurd it states that nothing created us and to nothing we will return, "nothing" is a concept that lacks agency it is the total lack of the power to create or destroy. Reason dictates that obvious truth, something created us and to something we will return.




Well since "I don't know" I don't think I qualify as a atheist. But it is that same "I don't know" that prevents me from subscribing to any relgion.

We need not have been "created." Conditions may simply have permitted us to exist. We could be a random cosmic happenchance as easily and as plausibly as any creation scenario of any religion.

I personally think it is man's vanity and fear of death which led him to the notion of religion and us being created because we are "special."

But in the end, "I don't know."

And quite frankly neither do you. You may "believe" something, but that is not the same.



The simplest single celled organism is as complex as a 747 aircraft. But it is odd how nobody seems to think that 747's just exist....

Science, for all it's benefits, tries to examine the PROCESS of life and existence, without touching on the purpose, stating that because the process is all that can be measured, that is all we can ever hope to know. Science is limited by our limitations, but to assert that nothing exists outside of what can be measured is lunacy of the highest form. Can we measure love? Can we measure the scent of the orchid in bloom? Certainly we can measure parts of it, but we cannot measure the effects those have on the human being.

How is it that the scent of a flower can transport us back in time? That the smell of a particular brand of shampoo can hit our nose an suddenly we are 19 years old again, lying with Jenny in our arms looking up at the stars one August night?

Yes science can measure some things, but there is a mystical quality to existence that science cannot hope to ever aprehend.

Man likes things he can measure, quantify, categorize, and file. This gives him mastery over it, even if only intellectual mastery. But the concept of the purpose of existence and God Himself REFUSES to be treated in such a manner. God is not mastered. And for all of man's assertions, man has not mastered existence or the mysteries of it.

The purely scientific mind is the saddest of all creatures, to whom the concepts of love, happiness, joy, and meaning are reduced to mere chemical interactions and evolved urges.

In our hearts, we know that this is not true. In our hearts we know that our existence is not reducable to an equation. Science is a wonderful tool, but trying to use it to solve the mystery of man's purpose is like trying to cut down a tree with a screwdriver. Wrong tool for the wrong job....

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:48:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:51:55 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
I will further add that "making a difference" is the most futile of all persuits if one does not believe in Cosmic Justice or the one who brings it about. If existence really is nothing more than happenstance of a chaotic universe, then what good does it do to do anything? Whatever you build, another will destroy. Whatever you accomplish will be forgotten. If we are mere pawns in a great cosmic happening that proceeds along its own path all of its own volition, then even the concept of free will goes out the window.

Many have heard of Alexander the Great, but all the documentaries and books in this world do not benefit him: He is dead. He does not hear his accolades, nor does he see his empire or what it has become. He does not "live on" in our memory. We remember the stale leavings of a man's life. And this is remarkable in itself, as most men are utterly forgotten.

If our existence is limited to this present form and present time, then we should grab every bit of pleasure out of life we can, because it is all futile anyway. If this is all there is, then "Eat, drink, and be merry. For tomorrow we die..."

It is a pitiful thing to think that what we see is all that there is. Science cannot "prove" anything more true than another. But science is NOT CAPABLE of doing any such thing. It doesn't CLAIM to. All science can claim to do is examine the minutia of the universe, not explain the grand scheme of it all.

Those who look to science and "rational proof" of things too big to be contained by reason do themselves a disservice.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:50:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:51:37 AM EST by Yojimbo]
I don't really fear death so much as I fear the thought of being without my loved ones, my wife especially...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:54:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:57:01 AM EST by IamtheNRA]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Athiesm embraces the absurd it states that nothing created us and to nothing we will return, "nothing" is a concept that lacks agency it is the total lack of the power to create or destroy. Reason dictates that obvious truth, something created us and to something we will return.




Well since "I don't know" I don't think I qualify as a atheist. But it is that same "I don't know" that prevents me from subscribing to any relgion.

We need not have been "created." Conditions may simply have permitted us to exist. We could be a random cosmic happenchance as easily and as plausibly as any creation scenario of any religion.

I personally think it is man's vanity and fear of death which led him to the notion of religion and us being created because we are "special."

But in the end, "I don't know."

And quite frankly neither do you. You may "believe" something, but that is not the same.



The simplest single celled organism is as complex as a 747 aircraft. But it is odd how nobody seems to think that 747's just exist....

Science, for all it's benefits, tries to examine the PROCESS of life and existence, without touching on the purpose, stating that because the process is all that can be measured, that is all we can ever hope to know. Science is limited by our limitations, but to assert that nothing exists outside of what can be measured is lunacy of the highest form. Can we measure love? Can we measure the scent of the orchid in bloom? Certainly we can measure parts of it, but we cannot measure the effects those have on the human being.

How is it that the scent of a flower can transport us back in time? That the smell of a particular brand of shampoo can hit our nose an suddenly we are 19 years old again, lying with Jenny in our arms looking up at the stars one August night?

Yes science can measure some things, but there is a mystical quality to existence that science cannot hope to ever aprehend.

Man likes things he can measure, quantify, categorize, and file. This gives him mastery over it, even if only intellectual mastery. But the concept of the purpose of existence and God Himself REFUSES to be treated in such a manner. God is not mastered. And for all of man's assertions, man has not mastered existence or the mysteries of it.

The purely scientific mind is the saddest of all creatures, to whom the concepts of love, happiness, joy, and meaning are reduced to mere chemical interactions and evolved urges.

In our hearts, we know that this is not true. In our hearts we know that our existence is not reducable to an equation. Science is a wonderful tool, but trying to use it to solve the mystery of man's purpose is like trying to cut down a tree with a screwdriver. Wrong tool for the wrong job....




Emergent properties...the human brain is very complex...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:55:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:55:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I will further add that "making a difference" is the most futile of all persuits if one does not believe in Cosmic Justice or the one who brings it about. If existence really is nothing more than happenstance of a chaotic universe, then what good does it do to do anything? Whatever you build, another will destroy. Whatever you accomplish will be forgotten. If we are mere pawns in a great cosmic happening that proceeds along its own path all of its own volition, then even the concept of free will goes out the window.

Many have heard of Alexander the Great, but all the documentaries and books in this world do not benefit him: He is dead. He does not hear his accolades, nor does he see his empire or what it has become. He does not "live on" in our memory. We remember the stale leavings of a man's life. And this is remarkable in itself, as most men are utterly forgotten.

If our existence is limited to this present form and present time, then we should grab every bit of pleasure out of life we can, because it is all futile anyway. If this is all there is, then "Eat, drink, and be merry. For tomorrow we die..."

It is a pitiful thing to think that what we see is all that there is. Science cannot "prove" anything more true than another. But science is NOT CAPABLE of doing any such thing. It doesn't CLAIM to. All science can claim to do is examine the minutia of the universe, not explain the grand scheme of it all.

Those who look to science and "rational proof" of things too big to be contained by reason do themselves a disservice.



Science just can't prove it YET...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:56:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

The simplest single celled organism is as complex as a 747 aircraft. But it is odd how nobody seems to think that 747's just exist....



That is because we KNOW where a 747 comes from.



Yup...Everett, Washington...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:59:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:14:24 AM EST
I've never understood why non-believers fear an "after-life" if they don't believe in the extistence of one. I am a Christian, however, were I a non-believer I would assume that upon death, everything ceases to exist. There is no consciousness, no body, no spirit, nothing. Why fear the absence of your loved ones if you will not have any faculty to "miss" them. I would assume that you wouldn't be able to think, remember, analyze anything, you just wouldn't be. So, if you are a non-believer and don't believe in the existence of an afterlife or a Heaven or Hell... don't worry and let your mind be at ease.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:33:58 AM EST
'Tis a poor thing to fear the inevitable.
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