Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 6/17/2009 6:17:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:09:17 AM EST by BUDUKO]
So at the shooting portion of my CCW class, my instructor tells me that I'm anticipating the shot and pulling left. At the end of the day my entire grouping was to the left and low of center mass.

He told me how to correct it but barely heard anything as non class members were there shooting and he had to scurry off and yell at someone who kept insisting on holding the gun after that round was complete.

Can anybody tell me some techniques to correct it.

G23.


ETA: Some instructors told me they would my Miss USA crown removed if I did not take back my name calling.

ETA 2: NEVER MENTION THIS AGAIN!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:22:04 AM EST
I believe that your title is a tad misleading.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:23:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By DRhodes:
I believe that your title is a tad misleading.


Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:23:47 AM EST
Teh ghey OP?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:24:00 AM EST
So did you catch or pitch?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:24:37 AM EST
I say chap, your title has no relevance to your tale.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:24:48 AM EST
try relaxing your grip with your left hand a little bit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:25:36 AM EST
dry firing will help. ball and dummy drills.

Also, not posting a thread looking for help in GD with a deceptive title will help too. Try Training forums next time...
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:25:42 AM EST
Try dry fire.....alot. Keeping focus on sight picture and trigger control. One trick I use is to balence a coin on my front sight blade.






Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:26:00 AM EST
I had the same problem. I spent a lot of time dry firing for practice. Put the sites on something and pull the trigger keeping the sites on the target. Also practice with a .22lr.


This is what worked for me.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:28:37 AM EST
Your title will guarantee traffic to this thread
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:30:55 AM EST
Practice, Practice, Practice
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:31:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By BUDUKO:
So at the shooting portion of my CCW class, my instructor tells me that I'm anticipating the shot and pulling left. At the end of the day my entire grouping was to the left and low of center mass.

He told me how to correct it but barely heard anything as non class members were there shooting and he had to scurry off and yell at someone who kept insisting on holding the gun after that round was complete.

Can anybody tell me some techniques to correct it.

G23.

Believe me, I am no expert, so others may help out more. How much of your trigger finger are you wrapping around the trigger? I had the same problem, guy at work who knows a thing or two about firearms told me not to squeeze the trigger with anymore then the first digit of my trigger finger. That if you had the second digit around the trigger it pulled your hand left when you squeezed. That helped me.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:32:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 6:36:43 AM EST by BadShovelhead]
stop pulling left just don't do it anymore. easy. what's my prize?

I had an issue like this except I was dropping barrel down a bit causing the rounds to group low side black spot. You need to relax, think about the basics and gently squeeze the trigger so that you are surprised by the round going off.

If you just cannot cure yourself of this.. slap yourself and then practice with a false aiming point. In the Marine Corps I would instruct my students at the range exactly like that but frankly range week is not all the productive for really bad habits. I used a lot of false or offset aim point trickery. When you don't have the time to break a habit or can't that is a good way to get by on qual day. I am not sure I would suggest it long term but if it gets you on target fine.

RELAX and concentrate. Center yourself on your actions and don't let your mind wander. The more in control of your thoughts the less likely you are to induce bad habits. Or at least reduce them. And I don't mean all cosmic hippy type centering but concentrate on your targe and the basics. Basic marksmanship skills are more important than any whiz bang gee whiz no foolin high speed training at some academy.


ETA:
A few have suggested dry fire which is a good thing for basics but in my opinion once you have developed a bad habit dry firing can just magnify the issue unless you are very honest with yourself and have maybe a laser. The reason being is the pistol will move obviously as you pull the trigger and let it reset but you really won't have any idea if your practice is paying off unless you see the strike of the round. So by dry firing in a case where you have developed a bad habit it may just make it worse. You need to shoot and be honest with yourself and not make excuses for any errant rounds.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:32:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By replicators:
Your title will guarantee traffic to this thread


Thats what I was aiming for. I try posting in the correct/appropriate subforums. Its hit and miss.


To all others who posted useful info. Thank you very much. Its greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:35:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Originally Posted By BUDUKO:
So at the shooting portion of my CCW class, my instructor tells me that I'm anticipating the shot and pulling left. At the end of the day my entire grouping was to the left and low of center mass.

He told me how to correct it but barely heard anything as non class members were there shooting and he had to scurry off and yell at someone who kept insisting on holding the gun after that round was complete.

Can anybody tell me some techniques to correct it.

G23.

Believe me, I am no expert, so others may help out more. How much of your trigger finger are you wrapping around the trigger? I had the same problem, guy at work who knows a thing or two about firearms told me not to squeeze the trigger with anymore then the first digit of my trigger finger. That if you had the second digit around the trigger it pulled your hand left when you squeezed. That helped me.




I think you're right. I I use my mid digit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:37:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
stop pulling left just don't do it anymore. easy. what's my prize?

I had an issue like this except I was dropping barrel down a bit causing the rounds to group low side black spot. You need to relax, think about the basics and gently squeeze the trigger so that you are surprised by the round going off.

If you just cannot cure yourself of this.. slap yourself and then practice with a false aiming point. In the Marine Corps I would instruct my students at the range exactly like that but frankly range week is not all the productive for really bad habits. I used a lot of false or offset aim point trickery. When you don't have the time to break a habit or can't that is a good way to get by on qual day. I am not sure I would suggest it long term but if it gets you on target fine.

RELAX and concentrate. Center yourself on your actions and don't let your mind wander. The more in control of your thoughts the less likely you are to induce bad habits. Or at least reduce them. And I don't mean all cosmic hippy type centering but concentrate on your targe and the basics. Basic marksmanship skills are more important than any whiz bang gee whiz no foolin high speed training at some academy.




Thanks. Will do.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:40:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:11:52 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:44:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By BUDUKO:
So at the shooting portion of my CCW class, my instructor tells me that I'm anticipating the shot and pulling left. At the end of the day my entire grouping was to the left and low of center mass.

He told me how to correct it but barely heard anything as non class members were there shooting and he had to scurry off and yell at someone who kept insisting on holding the gun after that round was complete.

Can anybody tell me some techniques to correct it.

G23.




Snatching the trigger is the most common problem shooters have, from high-speed super ninjas to people who just picked up a gun for the first time.

There are ways to combat it:

1. Dryfire practice –– To establish what a proper trigger pull is, place a case or a dime on the front sight, and then pull the trigger without dropping the coin/case off of the front sight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%201911%20Operators%20June%206-7%2009/TD1/P1020568.jpg

When the trigger is pulled, the case should stay on the front sight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%201911%20Operators%20June%206-7%2009/TD1/P1020570.jpg

The ability to pull the trigger without dropping the case off the front sight will give you a baseline to establish proper trigger control. You can refer back to this trigger pull whenever you find yourself snatching the trigger again.



2. Live-fire/Dryfire practice –– Trigger control is easy when you know the gun won't go bang. Thus the next trick is designed to psych you out so that you don't know if the gun is going to go bang or not. If you have a buddy, have him set your weapon up with either a loaded chamber or an unloaded chamber while you are not looking. When he has set it up the way he wants it, he hands the gun back to you. Then on the command (or buzzer, whatever you are using) you come up from a low ready and fire one shot on target. If you have trigger control issues and you expect the weapon to go boom, then you'll see the El Snatcho virus popping up. In other words, when you are expecting the gun to go off, you'll revert to what you do naturally. Your buddy should be watching you carefully to see whether or not you jerk the weapon downwards in anticipation of recoil. When you drop the hammer on an empty chamber and you jerk the piss out of the gun, both of you will be able to see it.

When that happens, you stop, clear the weapon, and then do 5 PERFECT dryfires with the case/dime on the front sight to re-establish that proper trigger pull. This drill is called the ball and dummy drill, and it's one of the best ways of demonstrating proper trigger control that I know of.

If you don't have a buddy, you can accomplish the same thing by buying some dummy rounds and having the wife or somebody load mags for you with a mixture of dummies and live rounds. You can dump ammo and dummies in a pile and close your eyes to load mags as well. Whatever works. Just remember that the point of the drill is to keep your mind unaware as to whether or not the weapon will actually go bang.

3. Training –– Sign up for quality training from a competent instructor ASAP. Vickers Tactical and Ken Hackathorn offer some superb instruction on the handgun that will stand you in good stead. So will the US Training Center, (Formerly Blackwater USA) Magpul Dynamics, and others are good options as well. Just remember to take HANDGUN training first, as trigger control on handguns is FAR more difficult than on carbines...thus carbine training will be of limited utility for you.





Good stuff. Thank you.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:44:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 6:51:56 AM EST by BadShovelhead]
Originally Posted By BUDUKO:
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Originally Posted By BUDUKO:
So at the shooting portion of my CCW class, my instructor tells me that I'm anticipating the shot and pulling left. At the end of the day my entire grouping was to the left and low of center mass.

He told me how to correct it but barely heard anything as non class members were there shooting and he had to scurry off and yell at someone who kept insisting on holding the gun after that round was complete.

Can anybody tell me some techniques to correct it.

G23.

Believe me, I am no expert, so others may help out more. How much of your trigger finger are you wrapping around the trigger? I had the same problem, guy at work who knows a thing or two about firearms told me not to squeeze the trigger with anymore then the first digit of my trigger finger. That if you had the second digit around the trigger it pulled your hand left when you squeezed. That helped me.




I think you're right. I I use my mid digit.


So is your problem anticipating the shot and over compensating for the round going off or is it improper grip? The two will provide different results pushing or anticipating recoil will give you a ragged but maybe tight group low center or left rarely right for right hand shooters. Improper trigger control can give you more of a buckshot look to your target unless you have really cemented the bad habit and have tighter groups. I doubt this is a trigger issue though it sounds like it needs improvement too.

Also how far off center are you talking about and is it a tight group and most importantly is it consistent?

Check out the target below when I take newbies especially liberals shooting they LOVE this because to a new comer it seems almost like magic to say oh your rounds hit here and it means this.

There are other version of this one but I like this one because it is less distracting the others I have seen.

And correct the bad habit or think of a offset aiming point.


http://www.svtreffers.nl/media/download_gallery/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf I left the link cold on purpose.


ETA to clarify when I say I doubt it is a trigger issue I mean this particular low left it sounds more like pushing which is a very common mistake. With pushing you really need to pay attention to the action around the webbing of your hand between thumb and trigger finger. That is where most of the pushing will occur and you'll maybe see the action if you were to watch it. Depends on how far off you are.

And I think you may want to visit changing your trigger use in general. Bad triggering is the root of almost all evil on a pistol. With a 1911 and a great trigger you should barely see the muscle of your trigger finger move. I mean barely even a bit of movement can be ugly. Without proper trigger use all other corrections may be for naught and if you wait too long you may have to retrain yourself in many areas.

Cool question glad you asked. title was a bit bad but... Much more relaxing than much of the political or my GF was just caught blowing a bowling team.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:55:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:04:13 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:59:23 AM EST
Anticipation is what the instructor told me. I do tend to grip the trigger with the middle part of my finger. I'm telling you my entire group, which started out at 7 yards I believe and went back to 25, was to the left and low of center mass.

I'm not gonna lie. I was nervous. It was a test dammit. And he went on and on the previous day about how he never had anyone fail the shooting portion and that he hoped this wasn't the class to break the streak. My hands were sweaty and I was making sure I had a good grip on it.



I only had one flyer though.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:05:33 AM EST
Thread title is getting a tad bit better.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:06:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:06:52 AM EST
Thanks John and Bad Shovel.

Proof that ARFCOM delivers.

I'm going try dryfire later today, but i've heard dryfire is bad on the firing pin? True or false?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:07:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:09:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:14:58 AM EST by MoBigAl]
Spit the dick out your sucking on before shooting.

It's apparently making you 're pulling your shots low left.

Practice dry firing. Lots of practice...




ETA: Posted during title edit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:11:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:11:27 AM EST
your wisdom is infinite.
Top Top