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Posted: 8/24/2005 5:33:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:36:24 PM EDT
I would check out a box or two.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:40:10 PM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:40:28 PM EDT
All new brass?

Sealed bullets and primers?


I would sure hate to lose you as a relatively unbiased tester.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:49:47 PM EDT
Might talk to doubletap from glocktalk. he did this himself, he might have some valuable tips for you.


Good luck brou, and if you do, you can count on me for some business.

TXL
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:03:00 PM EDT
I would be interested in purchasing such ammo.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:07:43 PM EDT
I would definitely buy some and try it out.

I assume it would be ammo across the spectrum...?

HH
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:21:06 PM EDT
I'd try it out, but exactly how would you differ from any of the other small manufacturers that are out there now?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
I'd try it out, but exactly how would you differ from any of the other small manufacturers that are out there now?



Especially when it comes to the pistol calibers...stick a heavy-for-caliber Gold Dot at a moderate velocity and you're bound to pass FBI/IWBA tests with flying colors, it seems.

Not trying to burst your bubble, though...you've made a name for yourself in the terminal ballistics world and more power to your efforts.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:03:17 PM EDT
Yes!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:09:33 PM EDT
You'd be a lot of peoples' hero if you improved options for 7.62 x 39

The hunting soft points are expensive, especially by SHTF stockpiling standards.
The cheap Russian ammo sucks terminally, and the ones that are decent can be hard to find.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:10:30 PM EDT
Yes!!!!!!


Bob
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:16:31 PM EDT
I'd be game, as long as you don't hire the same marketing company that BHI, and Extreme Shock use!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:20:11 PM EDT
Sounds kind of fancy to me. I'd bite.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:53:41 PM EDT
I said, "not really", because I reload. I can make anything you can make and I can make it cheaper and in any volume I desire.

The only thing you could offer to me is your legal status for my self defense ammunition. I do not use reloads for self defense ammo, not because they are unreliable but because I do not want to face any BS in court about "special ammunition". For this purpose, there are a large number of existing firms from whom I can get quality ammuinition at reasonable prices.

I am not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just giving my honest opinion regarding your business concept. After all, that's what you asked for, isn't it?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:03:22 PM EDT
are your prices going to be inline with other top companies or are we talking $3 per round?
are you going to have crimped primers?
sealed primers and bullets?
i don't think many would buy at much over $1 per round.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:42:45 PM EDT
I would bite and see. Would want to get something that will work for SD.

But, gotta make friends with people in northern places.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:44:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 10:48:22 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
Brou....not only would I be interested, I would sing and dance at your wedding (well, maybe not since I suck at both, but you get the picture) if you'd do so.

Being saddled between buying grade 2 or 3 M193 or commercial crap, I have had the ammo blues lately. I would be greatly interested in an M193 spec load and a 77 gr OTM load using cannelured Nosler bullets (or equivalent). I would want them sealed at the primer and case mouth as well as loaded to milspec pressures using a quality low flash powder.

I'd also have an interest in 9mm loaded with Ranger or Gold Dot bullets and .308 using 150 gr Nosler ballistic tips or 155 gr AMAX bullets.

I wouldn't expect you to be able to compete with Wolf in prices, but if you could get into the Black Hills price and quality range, I could give a damn less about paying a few dollars more. I'd definately be in.

And last, simply knowing you are involved would be all the incentive I'd need to buy from you. I know you know attention to detail and quality. I'd purchase all of my SD ammo from you.

BTW, good luck in your venture. I truly hope you carry this forward. As I've said, I've been having the ammo blues now for months. All the choices are not ideal. The choices are either buying match ammo that's expensive as hell that still doesn't meet mil-specs, buying military leftovers that aren't milspec or buying underloaded commercial shit. I want to have my cake and eat it too. So again, I wish you much success in this effort, as you'd be greatly benfitting folks like me.

Also, don't expect a huge number to be interested. Most people are willing to shoot crap ammo and could care less about quality and attention to detail. But those of us who do will surely keep your effort profitable and worth the trouble. The following you have will no doubt be dedicated and the ARF.commers alone will give you great business. Oh, and be sure to sell all your 5.56mm in those nifty 50 rd boxes!

Please follow up with more details of your plan if you wish. I am already drolling at the notion of not being at the mercy of the govt or commercial manufacturers in what ammo I can or can't get.

EDITED TO ADD: I bet you'd also have a good market among LE agencies who are also having trouble getting milspec ammo these days.

-CH
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:04:50 PM EDT
Depends on the price, I'm not real short on any of the calibers that I own but I am finding that my one Colt likes the heavier bullets.

I would lean toward making some quaility M193 and M855.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:17:47 PM EDT
+1 on the LE market. Possibly even merc's (wouldn't hurt to try!).

I'd definitely like to have a small stockpile of quality 'use' ammo, when I have the $$$...
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:35:14 PM EDT
If you need a Ninja for your adverts, I'll gladly donate my services, free of charge.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:38:09 PM EDT
Nah, not really.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:45:17 PM EDT
I would try your recipie out and if it worked I would be in for a case every few months.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
I said, "not really", because I reload. I can make anything you can make and I can make it cheaper and in any volume I desire.

The only thing you could offer to me is your legal status for my self defense ammunition. I do not use reloads for self defense ammo, not because they are unreliable but because I do not want to face any BS in court about "special ammunition". For this purpose, there are a large number of existing firms from whom I can get quality ammuinition at reasonable prices.

I am not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just giving my honest opinion regarding your business concept. After all, that's what you asked for, isn't it?



More info...
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:15:29 AM EDT
Bump.

Brou, you should also post this in the ammo forum or at least link this thread to that forum. That's where the serious ammo whores like me would be most likely to see it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:23:01 AM EDT
Depends on cost.

THere's pleny of high dollar self defense ammo out there.

Does most of it come with full ballistics tests? no....

It's a good idea, but cost will be a big factor.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:52:05 AM EDT
The main difference is, there's no ammo out there available to civilians loaded with match bullets that meet milspec velocities. Yet there is a demand. The massive group buy planned a year or two ago proved that, even though the deal fell through.

The business would cater to a specialized market where there is ZERO competition. That's a recipe for success.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:27:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
The main difference is, there's no ammo out there available to civilians loaded with match bullets that meet milspec velocities. Yet there is a demand. The massive group buy planned a year or two ago proved that, even though the deal fell through.

The business would cater to a specialized market where there is ZERO competition. That's a recipe for success.



+1

I have 3500 rounds of M193 put back, but with the shortage I can't bring myself to shoot it. Actually, I would rather increase my stash to around 5000-6000 rounds and would definitely consider a well documented "clone." If you could introduce some 5.56 that met our expectations, I think you would have a core customer base here @ arfcom. Hope it works out for you/us.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:02:46 AM EDT
Bumped once more for the day crew.

BTW, I suppose it's very obvious that I have taken a great interest to this thread. LOL. I've been suggesting for year's that some manufacturer should tap into this market, but it looks like it's gonna take one of our members to finally make that potential a reality.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:25:09 AM EDT
I'd like to see some 5.56 M193, and some 75 and 77 OTM loads. Price is going to play a big factor for a lot of people though, including me. There is a point to where it's just not "worth" the extra cost to have 5.56 pressure ammo.....


BTW, I voted "Definitely" b/c I'm definitely interested.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:31:22 AM EDT
Good luck with that.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:49:29 AM EDT
Another thought...

...you could be the "manufacturer" who finally puts out a 12 gauge 'tactical' load in 1Buck using 12 pellets. I'd buy a crate of the stuff.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:00:33 AM EDT
I'm with Charging Handle. If you can produce some M193 ammo, with sealed bullets, crimped primers, true M193 velocity, preferably more accurate than Mil-spec, I'd be all over it. I'd try out the 77gr SMKs; this would be a good excuse to get a 1/7 twist barrel.

Even better would be if you can produce some 6.8mm ammo (maybe under license, don't know if you could without paying for it?).

I'd be in for at least a couple cases a year.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:32:57 AM EDT
I'm not sure it could be done while trying to keep prices low and quality high. If you could do it, and still retain a profit for yourself (and pay employees), I still think that you would find it difficult to meet the demands of the consumer.

You start out talking about 75/77 grain ammo, and other high end SD ammo, but there are already people talking about shot gun ammo. People are talking about a box or two, or maybe a case, and to be honest, I'm not sure you could survive on peoples comments here.

A case or two of ammo isn't what carries a company, its selling by the pallet. The cheaper standard loads tend to be bread and butter for companies, and its because they are selling in bulk, making it cheaper (more profit), and doing volume sales to someone other than the conusmer.

My guess would be that stating you would start with 55 grain (M193 clone), a 68 grain, and the 77 grain would be the opening loads would save you headache. Trying to satisfy too many may result in helping none.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the idea has merit, and I would like to think that I would buy from you, but just make sure you cover all angles so you don't lose your shirt on what seems like a good idea.



Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:35:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 7:36:09 AM EDT by terrafirma]
When I first read this thread, what immediately came to mind was Georgia Precision. They have their Canned Heat 5.56. Although I have never shot any and I cant buy any yet either (I'm under 21), for $150 a case and positive reviews from ARF members, I think I would buy from them exclusively.

I dont mind using reloads as long as the stuff is quality and goes bang close to XM193 standards.

If this ammunition firm was started and prices were under $200 a case for praised ammo, I would surely buy from you.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:30:35 AM EDT
Yes, make good ammo and sell it through Cabela's and I will buy.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:45:26 AM EDT
I'm afraid that the price of your ammo would be out of reach for most people...at least in large quantities. Black Hills is too high for a lot of people. The mil spec stuff does well because it is manufactured in such enormous quantities that the price is lower than normal. Don't think you'd be able to compete anywhere close to their prices. If you used once fired brass you might get a decent price but then some wouldn't buy it because it's not new brass.

Best of luck....if you try it I certainly hope you are successful.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:20:34 AM EDT
While cost would be a factor (simply because of my current stockpile of 77grn ammo) I would definately want to check out a few cases myself, if for no other reason than comparing it to what I have now.

Mike
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:24:09 AM EDT
I'd check it out for sure... But all the good names are taken! How can you top "ExXXxxxxxtreme ShokKKkkkKKkk"???
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:47:59 AM EDT
Another bump.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:55:12 AM EDT
Hmmm, I think I may have heard a little leak about this. Does your business associate happen to also be a member of these boards? MJD
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:00:42 AM EDT
Brouh,
75gr with sealers and staked primers? At a cost similar to Black Hills? Taking credit cards?

Yeah that sounds pretty good.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:19:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:39:08 AM EDT
I would like to see commercially made M193. That would help with ammo supply and price stability!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:49:10 AM EDT
Assuming the price is competitive this sounds like a STELLAR idea......

I would wrap up serious quantities of 75gr TAP NATO like it was going out of style.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:04:36 PM EDT
I'm in but me being a 7.62 NATO type of guy would love to see an offering like the German DAG rounds. That would be one hot seller!



BTW I do need a couple of cases of Q3131, I'm getting low....
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:08:08 PM EDT
If you build them, we will buy.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:14:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:15:15 PM EDT
Selling ammo loaded to above SAAMI specs may be something of a liability issue. I know, some companies already do this, but it is one more thing to consider.

I would be interested if you decide to do it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:17:38 PM EDT
How about just approaching Black Hills with this project? They load Nato pressure spec 77gr stuff and could easily do this. Or Alabama Ammo?

Oh and yes.....I would be interested. Especially after the garbage 'new' 193pd crap I bought from Ammoman.

Josh
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 12:22:59 PM EDT by Fat_McNasty]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
Selling ammo loaded to above SAAMI specs may be something of a liability issue. I know, some companies already do this, but it is one more thing to consider.



+1 the insurance is a bitch! Because someone WILL use some of your hot loaded ammo in a .223 chamber. Its not if, but when.. One of the major reasons im producing only the bullets and not the whole round.
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