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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:19:43 PM EDT
For those not in the know, Darius III, King of Persia, fled the battlefield from Alexander not once, but twice. Ultimately, he was executed by his own generals for cowardice. Those generals, by and large, read the writing on the wall and pledged their loyalty to Alexander.
Notably, Alexander was gracious to the defeated Persians, including Darius' mother, whom he "adopted" as his own mother and commanded that the women of Darius' family be treated as if they were his (Alexander's) blood relatives. Apparently, everything we think we knew is wrong. 
Darius was a patriot for fleeing, twice, not a coward. 
I find it interesting that this author condemns the Greek contemporary and later Roman pro Alexander sources as solely propaganda (which, assuredly they were to some degree) but accepts at face value "medieval" Persian poetry which portray a struggle between two "great" warriors, "Dara" (Darius) and "Iskandar" (Alexander). Roman mosaic from around 100 BC showing Alexander (left) chasing Darius from the battlefield (right) 
"Darius was portrayed more favorably by other Greco-Roman writers than by Arrian, but Mr. Briant is not interested in the standard scholarly game of comparing divergent ancient accounts to determine which is “true.” "The ranks of reshapers, as Mr. Briant makes clear, include the medieval Persian poets and romancers who recounted, in texts little known in the West, the fateful duel between “Dara” and “Iskandar,” Darius and Alexander." http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-darius-in-the-shadow-of-alexander-by-pierre-briant-1421446368 |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:21:53 PM EDT
[#1]
If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:23:00 PM EDT
[#2]
history is written by the winners, no?
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:23:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Didn't Alexander execute the generals who betrayed Darius?
Its my understanding that Alexander had a healthy respect for him. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:24:13 PM EDT
[#4]
This is interesting. Good post.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:26:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Everything I know on this subject comes from Iron Maiden.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:27:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
history is written by the winners, no? Until recently, yes. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:30:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything I know on this subject comes from Iron Maiden. 
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:30:48 PM EDT
[#8]
WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case. The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:32:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Medieval Persian sources? So roughly 1000 years after the fact then. No possibility for bias there.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:33:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Lincoln was a Democrat
MLK freed slaves and gave us free speech Nazi's were the far right This passes for education..... |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:33:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Alexander execute the generals who betrayed Darius? Its my understanding that Alexander had a healthy respect for him. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:33:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: For those not in the know, Darius III, King of Persia, fled the battlefield from Alexander not once, but twice. Ultimately, he was executed by his own generals for cowardice. Those generals, by and large, read the writing on the wall and pledged their loyalty to Alexander. Notably, Alexander was gracious to the defeated Persians, including Darius' mother, whom he "adopted" as his own mother and commanded that the women of Darius' family be treated as if they were his (Alexander's) blood relatives. Apparently, everything we think we knew is wrong. Darius was a patriot for fleeing, twice, not a coward. I find it interesting that this author condemns the Greek contemporary and later Roman pro Alexander sources as solely propaganda (which, assuredly they were to some degree) but accepts at face value "medieval" Persian poetry which portray a struggle between two "great" warriors, "Dara" (Darius) and "Iskandar" (Alexander). Roman mosaic from around 100 BC showing Alexander (left) chasing Darius from the battlefield (right) http://www.historybuffs.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/mosaic-thumbnail.jpg "Darius was portrayed more favorably by other Greco-Roman writers than by Arrian, but Mr. Briant is not interested in the standard scholarly game of comparing divergent ancient accounts to determine which is "true.” "The ranks of reshapers, as Mr. Briant makes clear, include the medieval Persian poets and romancers who recounted, in texts little known in the West, the fateful duel between "Dara” and "Iskandar,” Darius and Alexander." http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-darius-in-the-shadow-of-alexander-by-pierre-briant-1421446368 |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:34:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case. The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:34:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Forgive me for thinking that Hootie and the Blowfish found a time machine!!
I had to read for a minute to figure out that this was a history lesson. LOL |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:36:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is the writer they quote? What's the book called? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case. The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." The link has the book and author in the text. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:40:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Brave King Darius ran away, bravely ran away, away! When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes brave King Darius turned about and gallantly he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. Bravest of the brave, King Darius. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:41:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Medieval Persian sources? So roughly 1000 years after the fact then. No possibility for bias there. Exactly. I have no problem treating ancient sources with a grain of salt, but to call contemporary or "recent" to the events sources into question and give a complete pass to stuff a thousand years later is not exactly a uniformly applied standard. Plus, it's worthy to note, Alexander is a figure of "the West". Darius is a figure of "the Middle East/Asia". See the modern day political template at work here? I do. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:44:08 PM EDT
[#19]
So what are they gonna call him now? "Alexander the Pretty Damn Good"?
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:44:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what are they gonna call him now? "Alexander the Pretty Damn Good"? Alexander The Privileged. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:45:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The link has the book and author in the text. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case. The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." The link has the book and author in the text. "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:45:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alexander The Privileged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what are they gonna call him now? "Alexander the Pretty Damn Good"? Alexander The Privileged. Maybe Alexander the Scary... |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:46:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alexander The Privileged. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So what are they gonna call him now? "Alexander the Pretty Damn Good"? Alexander The Privileged. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:51:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Alexander represents the historic triumph of western civilization over that of the east.
Progressive revisionists hate western civilization and will do their damnedest to erase it's greatest achievements and the men who were responsible for them. Nazi Germany would have been defeated without the "contribution" of The United States, Alexander was a coward, and the only Great American worthy of a national holiday in his name is Martin Luther King. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:54:42 PM EDT
[#25]
LOL...Okay. There is reason why everyone knows Alexanders name, and it isn't because of a shitty movie.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:55:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found this quote in the article that wraps everything up nicely: "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king. Not just opinion, but a poorly founded opinion. It is similar to typical leftist thought that very selectively applies facts. It reminds me of the claim our federal system was copied from Native Americans. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Medieval Persian sources? So roughly 1000 years after the fact then. No possibility for bias there. If 'modern' persians are any example -- they also lie like democrats. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:04:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not just opinion, but a poorly founded opinion. It is similar to typical leftist thought that very selectively applies facts. It reminds me of the claim our federal system was copied from Native Americans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Found this quote in the article that wraps everything up nicely: "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king. Not just opinion, but a poorly founded opinion. It is similar to typical leftist thought that very selectively applies facts. It reminds me of the claim our federal system was copied from Native Americans. Overall, I think Alexander, a true warrior king, and his army so outclassed the Persians that it was equivalent of the US military fighting the Iraqi military in Desert Storm. The Persians really had no chance countering Alexander's highly skilled and organized army.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Deconstruction of heroes is lesson plan 1 in white guilt.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:08:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Deconstruction of heroes is lesson plan 1 in white guilt. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:12:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found this quote in the article that wraps everything up nicely: "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WSJ article wont open for me without subscribing or logging in. What evidence did they use to suggest Darius III wasn't a coward? Arrian, Plutarch, and many others all basically agree that Darius ran away in battle. Alexander charged Darius' direct position at Issus and Gaugamela, if Darius didn't run either he or Alexander would have been seriously wounded or dead. Which isn't the case. The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." The link has the book and author in the text. "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king. Yep, the author puts about as thick a coat of sugar on a cowardly retreat as possible, while avoiding the fact that preserving his dynasty means preserving his own neck. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:16:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alexander The Privileged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what are they gonna call him now? "Alexander the Pretty Damn Good"? Alexander The Privileged. Get in his Homocage! 
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:19:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Deconstruction of heroes is lesson plan 1 in white guilt. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. I found it amazing to learn that he loved learning about his conquered people's heritage/culture and would try to adopt their manners when around them to be polite. I had to write a big paper two semesters ago comparing and contrasting Alexander's and Ceasars life. Alexander is a legendary beyond Caesar. Julius visited Alexander's grave too I believe to pay tribute to the once great leader. It was so long ago and I know stories can be twisted but I just wish I could know what he was like. Isn't he mentioned in the Bible and Qur'an?
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:20:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, the author puts about as thick a coat of sugar on a cowardly retreat as possible, while avoiding the fact that preserving his dynasty means preserving his own neck. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The article quotes the writer's "opinion" but only really offers the medieval Persian sources as "evidence." The link has the book and author in the text. "To answer it, Mr. Briant ventures his own explanation of Darius’ flight from battle, seeing this as a planned move designed to preserve the Persian monarchy rather than, as Greco-Roman writers assumed, a panicked desertion of duty." It comes down to opinion then. Briant believes that even with a 10,000 man bodyguard (Immortals) surrounding himself in battle, it was totally cool for Darius to abandon his army and ride away in all haste, even abandoning his mother, wife and children at his camp at Issus, because he needed to survive to ensure the continuity of his dynasty. Bullshit! No king that runs from a fight and abandons his people to the enemy deserves to be a king. Yep, the author puts about as thick a coat of sugar on a cowardly retreat as possible, while avoiding the fact that preserving his dynasty means preserving his own neck. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:23:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:27:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:27:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything I know on this subject comes from Iron Maiden. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:31:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He probably would have gotten drunk and ran a train on you with his general staff. The royal court of the Macedonian kingdom acted closer to Viking in their conduct than to civilized people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. Only if you were hot. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:31:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:35:55 PM EDT
[#41]
The truth usually lies somewhere in between what both sides claim.
Whatever else he was Darius was a loser in a BIG way. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:36:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would easily be my choice as well. It seems like he had a lot of mercy and compassion but was relentless when messed with. I found it amazing to learn that he loved learning about his conquered people's heritage/culture and would try to adopt their manners when around them to be polite. I had to write a big paper two semesters ago comparing and contrasting Alexander's and Ceasars life. Alexander is a legendary beyond Caesar. Julius visited Alexander's grave too I believe to pay tribute to the once great leader. It was so long ago and I know stories can be twisted but I just wish I could know what he was like. Isn't he mentioned in the Bible and Qur'an? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. I found it amazing to learn that he loved learning about his conquered people's heritage/culture and would try to adopt their manners when around them to be polite. I had to write a big paper two semesters ago comparing and contrasting Alexander's and Ceasars life. Alexander is a legendary beyond Caesar. Julius visited Alexander's grave too I believe to pay tribute to the once great leader. It was so long ago and I know stories can be twisted but I just wish I could know what he was like. Isn't he mentioned in the Bible and Qur'an? He was "heroic" in the great achievement and courage in the face of danger sense. His perspective and conduct are completely alien to our modern sensibilities. While he was a product of his age, he was also bloodthirsty and, in at least one unforgivable instance, murdered in a fit of drunken rage, a close friend who has saved his life many times. Unforgivable. Yet, he was a prodigy. Some historic figures are prodigies in music and some with paint and canvass. With Alexander, it was leadership backed by the sword and sarissa. He can continue to be admired, because most of his enemies were as bad if not "worse" in their violent excesses as he was. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't get me wrong, the guy was a kick ass warrior and commander. He just wasn't close to the level perfection that many thrust on him. I'd say a good part of his success was due to not only fighting scrubs for an enemy but also for being the son of probably the most able human being alive at the time, Philip II. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. He falls short, I think, in the "virtue" category. Everywhere else, he's aces. IMO. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke.  |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:42:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. I'd rather talk to either Julius Caesar or Augustus.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:43:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this era of history part of your profession or just very interested in it? I ask because I've seen you do a few Macedon era threads and I always like them Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. 
To understand Rome, you have to understand what came before it. Honestly, just in sheer terms of one person effecting the present time/at the time he was alive, Alexander is the "Greatest" human Western civilization has ever produced. I think by the above definition, Genghis Kahn was probably "greater" (though not Western), but don't forget, Alexander died of wounds and typhus (likely) at 32. Kahn was more than twice his age when he died. With a similar lifespan, Alexander would likely have set a bar none could equal. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:45:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He falls short, I think, in the "virtue" category. Everywhere else, he's aces. IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. He falls short, I think, in the "virtue" category. Everywhere else, he's aces. IMO. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:48:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather talk to either Julius Caesar or Augustus. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I could meet and talk with any leader from history Alexander would be that guy. I'd rather talk to either Julius Caesar or Augustus. I would rather meet Augustus. He's the one who helped unite a land that had been in civil unrest for so long with the Pax Romana(sp?) |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:48:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To understand Rome, you have to understand what came before it. Honestly, just in sheer terms of one person effecting the present time/at the time he was alive, Alexander is the "Greatest" human Western civilization has ever produced. I think by the above definition, Genghis Kahn was probably "greater" (though not Western), but don't forget, Alexander died of wounds and typhus (likely) at 32. Kahn was more than twice his age when he died. With a similar lifespan, Alexander would likely have set a bar none could equal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Big time. But considering his background (Iranian history), its a bit understandable. Likewise, historians that focus on Alexander are always quick to come up with excuses for his drunken excesses and his military and political blunders. I still think it would have been cooler for Alexander to have gone west to fight the Italians. My guess is he would have won the initial battles but would be have died in combat by battle two or three at the latest. Meanwhile, Persia was weaksauce. Only real legitimate enemy Alexander faced in a pitched battle were the Indians. Don't forget his earlier performance under Philip at Chaeronea. He wasn't the Commander in Chief of the Army, but ably commanded the left wing of Philip's Army. Not that you're suggesting otherwise, but he was the real deal. Also agree that the Indians were no joke. To understand Rome, you have to understand what came before it. Honestly, just in sheer terms of one person effecting the present time/at the time he was alive, Alexander is the "Greatest" human Western civilization has ever produced. I think by the above definition, Genghis Kahn was probably "greater" (though not Western), but don't forget, Alexander died of wounds and typhus (likely) at 32. Kahn was more than twice his age when he died. With a similar lifespan, Alexander would likely have set a bar none could equal. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:49:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything I know on this subject comes from Iron Maiden. Am I the only one in this thread that holding a lighter above his head? |
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