Posted: 9/18/2026 7:57:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CleverNickname][Edited]
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Originally posted by the DOJ Today, the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel released a legal opinion concluding that the federal prohibition may not be enforced against licensed dealers selling handguns to otherwise law-abiding adults ages 18 to 20 consistent with the Second Amendment. The Office of Legal Counsel’s new opinion explains that federal statutes 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1) and (c)(1) are inconsistent with the Second Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, and subsequent decisions including Wolford v. Lopez. These statutes generally prohibit federally licensed dealers from selling handguns or handgun ammunition to individuals under 21. The Office of Legal Counsel determined that 18 to 20-year-olds are among “the people” protected by the Second Amendment. “Eighteen-year-olds may vote, serve on juries, be drafted, and face adult criminal penalties, including capital punishment,” said Assistant Attorney General T. Elliot Gaiser for the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel. "The Constitution protects the people’s right to keep and bear arms. The Department of Justice may not constitutionally seek to impose criminal penalties on dealers who sell handguns to law-abiding adults who, in nearly every other relevant respect, are members of the political community.” Because the restrictions burden the ability of members of “the people” to acquire commonly used arms, they fall within the Amendment’s plain text and are presumptively unconstitutional. The Office of Legal Counsel found no Founding era history or tradition of precluding legal adults from purchasing firearms to protect public safety. To the contrary, at the Founding, militia statutes overwhelmingly required service beginning at 18 and required enrollees to furnish their own arms. The Office of Legal Counsel concludes that Section 922(b)(1) and (c)(1) may not be enforced to impose criminal penalties on dealers who sell handguns to a class of law-abiding adults who, in nearly every other relevant respect, are members of the political community. Read the full opinion here. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-concludes-federal-ban-handgun-sales-18-20-year-olds-unconstitutional-and You kids in states that have state laws banning such sales are still out of luck for now, but it sounds like the DOJ will at least file an amicus brief if your state government gets sued in federal court over those laws. |
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Originally Posted By Lancelot: Unless state law says otherwise In this case would Federal Law override state law? |
So... I find comfort in the fact that if Trump has to work so hard to go to Heaven, then there is a shit load of Democrats that have no f-cking chance to go anywhere but HELL. Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a sledge-hammer.
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Is this like the post office rule, where DOJ says they won't prosecute, but the law itself has not been changed (reference individuals mailing handguns)? Also did the DOJ actually say FFL's can transfer handguns to 18-20 year old's or did OP surmise that? I ask because I didn't see anything in the article from DOJ specifically giving FFL's a green light to now do it. |
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Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is |
| I believe the DOJ is offering their opinion and will act accordingly. They will also back anyone testing the law in their own State till it's been legally resolved. I could be wrong. |
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Also did the DOJ actually say FFL's can transfer handguns to 18-20 year old's or did OP surmise that? I ask because I didn't see anything in the article from DOJ specifically giving FFL's a green light to now do it. Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Also did the DOJ actually say FFL's can transfer handguns to 18-20 year old's or did OP surmise that? I ask because I didn't see anything in the article from DOJ specifically giving FFL's a green light to now do it. The DOJ opinion linked in the OP Section 922(b)(1) and (c)(1) may not be enforced to impose criminal penalties on dealers who sell handguns to a class of law-abiding adults who, in nearly every other relevant respect, are members of the political community. Saying it "may not be enforced" sure sounds like a green light to me. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Saying it "may not be enforced" sure sounds like a green light to me. Didn't they say the same thing about individuals shipping handguns via USPS? And that was months ago, but you still can't walk into a post office as a non-FFL and mail a handgun. |
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Originally Posted By DasRonin: In this case would Federal Law override state law? The problem is there isn't a federal law that says "thou shalt allow 18-20 year olds to buy title 1 firearms." Thus, if a state has more restrictive laws, that's what FFL's must follow. |
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| In MN, you can get a permit to carry a pistol as an 18yo, but you can't legally buy a pistol from an FFL. You can only buy one FTF or from family, or be gifted one. It is fucked up. I'm not 100% sure if it was only the federal law that prevented this, or if there are MN statues as well (I'll google later). |
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Didn't they say the same thing about individuals shipping handguns via USPS? And that was months ago, but you still can't walk into a post office as a non-FFL and mail a handgun. Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Saying it "may not be enforced" sure sounds like a green light to me. Didn't they say the same thing about individuals shipping handguns via USPS? And that was months ago, but you still can't walk into a post office as a non-FFL and mail a handgun. True, but that relies on another branch of the government (the USPS) doing something. All that has to happen for this ruling is for FFLs to just start transferring handguns. Actually, start transferring any firearm. It'd be interesting to see if the ATF has changed their processes yet and will now approve Form 4's from FFLs to 18-20 year-olds. And if an 18-20 year-old is a covered party for the Silencer Shop v. ATF ruling, an FFL should be able to transfer a silencer to them on a 4473 just like any other covered party. |
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is In the 80s we had a smoking area and rifle range in High school. I had my first AR at 16, first job at 15. I saved my money and Dad bought me a 1911 at 18. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: True, but that relies on another branch of the government (the USPS) doing something. All that has to happen for this ruling is for FFLs to just start transferring handguns. Actually, start transferring any firearm. It'd be interesting to see if the ATF has changed their processes yet and will now approve Form 4's from FFLs to 18-20 year-olds. And if an 18-20 year-old is a covered party for the Silencer Shop v. ATF ruling, an FFL should be able to transfer a silencer to them on a 4473 just like any other covered party. I guess we will have to wait and see. If that is the intent of the DOJ to give the green light to FFL's, they should have said it. Hopefully ATF will do the right thing and not put up some roadblock, although the post office ruling that still isn't fixed months later gives me pause. |
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is What fucking gun site am I on? |
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is Kid in MI recently stopped a mass shooting but got charged because he wasn't 21. I'm sorta glad he was there. |
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Originally Posted By Thurman_Murman_74: Does this mean my 18 year old son can buy 9mm pistol ammo now as well? Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. Well they don’t sell 9mm ammo, so…. |
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Originally Posted By StevenH: Well they don’t sell 9mm ammo, so…. Originally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. Well they don’t sell 9mm ammo, so…. Way to miss the point. |
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as I said earlier today.... similar to this at 18 you are an adult or not. legislators make a law be it 18, 19, 21, or even 40 but if you are an adult you get all the adult benefits and drawbacks |
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Originally Posted By KonamiCode: What fucking gun site am I on? Originally Posted By KonamiCode: Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is What fucking gun site am I on? Young people in general make poor decisions. And the "age of majority" is inconsistent. 18 to vote and join the military 21 to drink 25 to run for office... Let's just admit that dangerous shit should be reserved for people whose brains have finished hardening. Or go the other way and let 16 year olds buy handguns. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I just wish that there was one line, and it was higher. And maybe I'm just talking as the father of teenagers 
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Young people in general make poor decisions. And the "age of majority" is inconsistent. 18 to vote and join the military 21 to drink 25 to run for office... Let's just admit that dangerous shit should be reserved for people whose brains have finished hardening. Or go the other way and let 16 year olds buy handguns. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I just wish that there was one line, and it was higher. And maybe I'm just talking as the father of teenagers Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By KonamiCode: Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is What fucking gun site am I on? Young people in general make poor decisions. And the "age of majority" is inconsistent. 18 to vote and join the military 21 to drink 25 to run for office... Let's just admit that dangerous shit should be reserved for people whose brains have finished hardening. Or go the other way and let 16 year olds buy handguns. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I just wish that there was one line, and it was higher. And maybe I'm just talking as the father of teenagers More young men get into trouble because of their dick than a handgun. The courts have recognized men starting at age 16 were required to be armed with a musket at his own expense. I’d say 16 as the new firearm minimum age should absolutely be the next step. |
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Originally Posted By 6EQUJ5: Kid in MI recently stopped a mass shooting but got charged because he wasn't 21. I'm sorta glad he was there. I thought it was because he didn't have a CCW ? You can own a handgun at 18 in Michigan don't see how he would be charged for that. Can't have a CCW until 21 though. |
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Originally Posted By 6EQUJ5: Kid in MI recently stopped a mass shooting but got charged because he wasn't 21. I'm sorta glad he was there. Originally Posted By 6EQUJ5: Originally Posted By ts6839: Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is Kid in MI recently stopped a mass shooting but got charged because he wasn't 21. I'm sorta glad he was there. I still can’t fathom the judge going, “Why did you need a gun at the mall?” AFTER the kid stops an armed, deadly threat. Kid was probably worried about getting a heavier sentence if he went, “Well, DUHHHHH… because there might be a bad guy with a gun… like the bad guy with the gun?” |
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Originally Posted By Papaw: And drafted, never forget that. Originally Posted By Papaw: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things And drafted, never forget that. Old enough to carry and shoot guns for da gubmint, but not for yourself. |
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430: as I said earlier today.... similar to this at 18 you are an adult or not. legislators make a law be it 18, 19, 21, or even 40 but if you are an adult you get all the adult benefits and drawbacks Unless you want to drink alcohol, or smoke a cigarette. Even better, the cigarette law went into effect during Donald Trump's first term. |
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Originally Posted By gotigers: 2ndA is a federal right, the commerce clause (crossing state lines) and supremacy clause override state law. Originally Posted By gotigers: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Unless state law says otherwise 2ndA is a federal right, the commerce clause (crossing state lines) and supremacy clause override state law. |
Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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Originally Posted By Flevvy: The problem is there isn't a federal law that says "thou shalt allow 18-20 year olds to buy title 1 firearms." Thus, if a state has more restrictive laws, that's what FFL's must follow. Theres also this thing called the second amendment that says shall not be infringed. Age restriction sounds like an infringement to me |
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Young people in general make poor decisions. And the "age of majority" is inconsistent. 18 to vote and join the military 21 to drink 25 to run for office... Let's just admit that dangerous shit should be reserved for people whose brains have finished hardening. Or go the other way and let 16 year olds buy handguns. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I just wish that there was one line, and it was higher. And maybe I'm just talking as the father of teenagers When I was 16 in Denmark, I was in the infantry (Guard) and had a government issued select-fire G3 and 200 rounds of ammo in my bedroom. Of course, Denmark also didn't have a drinking age,so it all evened out. |
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Originally Posted By DavidY: Unless you want to drink alcohol, or smoke a cigarette. Even better, the cigarette law went into effect during Donald Trump's first term. seems like ripe to be taken up by the supremes |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Originally Posted By Thurman_Murman_74: Does this mean my 18 year old son can buy 9mm pistol ammo now as well? Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. Nobody is going to walk into Walmart and buy 9mm, regardless of age. They stopped carrying handgun ammo years ago. |
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