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Originally Posted By DK-Prof: When I was 16 in Denmark, I was in the infantry (Guard) and had a government issued select-fire G3 and 200 rounds of ammo in my bedroom. Of course, Denmark also didn't have a drinking age,so it all evened out. I don't doubt it. And I wouldn't oppose arming teenagers here, as long as I could scream at and indoctrinate them first. |
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Originally Posted By wyopatr: I thought it was because he didn't have a CCW ? You can own a handgun at 18 in Michigan don't see how he would be charged for that. Can't have a CCW until 21 though. Same difference. He was in a mall if I remember. Needed to have a CCW for that...BUT can't get one. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Yes, but I don't think showing up at Walmart tomorrow and saying "ACKSHUALLY, THE DOJ SAID IT'S OK NOW" when he tries buying 9mm will do much. I'm guessing eventually most FFLs will get the message though. Hopefully the NSSF and other industry organizations will help get the news out to FFLs. I haven't heard anything, and the CI that did my compliance inspection didn't mention it, did do the post inspection briefing, and had to mention no handgun ammo to under 21 sales. When I asked him about suppressors, he tried to give what I imagine is a canned response, but you could tell that he wasn't really sure either. |
I have no useful skills, therefore I supervise.
Call sign:Radio Silence
Call sign:Radio Silence
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Originally Posted By Gunslinger808: I haven't heard anything, and the CI that did my compliance inspection didn't mention it, did do the post inspection briefing, and had to mention no handgun ammo to under 21 sales. When I asked him about suppressors, he tried to give what I imagine is a canned response, but you could tell that he wasn't really sure either. The DOJ published that press release today. Was your inspection today? |
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This will be interesting to see how the ATF responds. You can’t run a NICS check for a handgun for a person under 21, so until they update the website, it’s still impossible for FFLs to transfer handguns to an 18 year old. The next question becomes “does this only apply to handguns or other firearms that aren’t long guns”? What about shockwave type guns and stripped lowers? What about suppressors? I’m not sure if the federal statute specifically says 21 to transfer handguns, or if it says firearms with carve outs for long guns to those under 21. If it’s the latter, then the DOJ complying with this would also mean suppressors at 18 are good to go. |
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Originally Posted By ts6839: Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is We need to ask ourselves what has changed in our society to make young people less functional. |
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Originally Posted By Flevvy: The problem is there isn't a federal law that says "thou shalt allow 18-20 year olds to buy title 1 firearms." Thus, if a state has more restrictive laws, that's what FFL's must follow. Though there is one that says 16-20 year olds men are members of the unorganized militia, and “in common use…for the militia” is a thing, so could a legal argument be made based on that? |
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Originally Posted By wyopatr: I thought it was because he didn't have a CCW ? You can own a handgun at 18 in Michigan don't see how he would be charged for that. Can't have a CCW until 21 though. It was that people get hemmed on procedural items all the time here in MI: Sheriff carrying while DUI'ing got charged with Carry under the influence, Guy who shot kids (Justifiably) TP'ing his house got discharge of a firearm in city limits, Guy who killed Proof (Justifiably) got carrying in a Restricted location (the bar) |
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Originally Posted By graysonp: This will be interesting to see how the ATF responds. Originally Posted By graysonp: This will be interesting to see how the ATF responds. The ATF is under the DOJ so I would assume they wouldn't drag their feet too much without consequences. But I doubt this was a surprise to the ATF. And Cekada seems pretty progun anyways. Originally Posted By graysonp: You can’t run a NICS check for a handgun for a person under 21, so until they update the website, it’s still impossible for FFLs to transfer handguns to an 18 year old. The next question becomes “does this only apply to handguns or other firearms that aren’t long guns”? What about shockwave type guns and stripped lowers? What about suppressors? I’m not sure if the federal statute specifically says 21 to transfer handguns, or if it says firearms with carve outs for long guns to those under 21. If it’s the latter, then the DOJ complying with this would also mean suppressors at 18 are good to go. It's all firearms with a cutout for 18-20 year-olds buying long guns. |
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Until is trickles down to ATF rules, then no FFL in their right mind is going to sell/transfer a pistol to anyone under 21. Hell, can remember a time that buying pistol ammo, had to sign the ammo book showing that you where at least 21 for any pistol, including having to state that 22lr ammo or other ammo that could be using rifle or pistol, was only going to be used in long gun in the book for anyone under 21 as well. |
Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
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Originally Posted By graysonp: You can’t run a NICS check for a handgun for a person under 21, so until they update the website, it’s still impossible for FFLs to transfer handguns to an 18 year old. If the policy becomes effective immediately FFL's will have to call in the BGC until eNICS can be updated. We'll have to see how the FBI handles the DoJ legal opinion. Some states like mine issue CHL's to 18+ so I wonder if the NICS bypass would apply to them. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: If the policy becomes effective immediately FFL's will have to call in the BGC until eNICS can be updated. We'll have to see how the FBI handles the DoJ legal opinion. Some states like mine issue CHL's to 18+ so I wonder if the NICS bypass would apply to them. The thing is there is no new policy right now. DOJ just said two sections of the law relating to 18-20 YO sales are unconstitutional. As of today (September 19) neither the DOJ or ATF have given any approval for FFL's to start sales to 18-20 year olds. None. I want to be optimistic, but as noted earlier you still can't mail a handgun via USPS. And how long ago did DOJ rule that was unconstitutional? These are great advances for 2A and America, but there is still not enough of the left hand talking to the right hand within the gov. |
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Originally Posted By DasRonin: In this case would Federal Law override state law? Originally Posted By DasRonin: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Unless state law says otherwise In this case would Federal Law override state law? Federal laws seem to override state laws unless it’s guns and voting. Then the states have unlimited power to fuck you any way they want. |
Trust me, I used to be with the Government
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Originally Posted By Guntoter: Federal laws seem to override state laws unless it’s guns and voting. Then the states have unlimited power to fuck you any way they want. Federal laws don’t override state laws, but they supersede state laws when they are in conflict with one another. The point is, it only matters if the laws are contradictory. States can, and have always had the authority, to implement additional laws beyond what federal laws cover. |
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Originally Posted By renov8: Certain States have used their "laws" to deny you your constitutionally protected right to bear arms... Originally Posted By renov8: Originally Posted By Lancelot: Unless state law says otherwise Certain States have used their "laws" to deny you your constitutionally protected right to bear arms... Certain states have also been permitted to hijack the NICS process and switch it to state control. It would be nice to see the current DOJ address that, btw. |
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Originally Posted By graysonp: Federal laws don’t override state laws, but they supersede state laws when they are in conflict with one another. The point is, it only matters if the laws are contradictory. States can, and have always had the authority, to implement additional laws beyond what federal laws cover. Originally Posted By graysonp: Originally Posted By Guntoter: Federal laws seem to override state laws unless it’s guns and voting. Then the states have unlimited power to fuck you any way they want. Federal laws don’t override state laws, but they supersede state laws when they are in conflict with one another. The point is, it only matters if the laws are contradictory. States can, and have always had the authority, to implement additional laws beyond what federal laws cover. Yep. It always been a get both situation |
Life member of CRPA. FPC contributor.
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Originally Posted By KonamiCode: What fucking gun site am I on? Originally Posted By KonamiCode: Originally Posted By ts6839: Originally Posted By notarandomname: If they can vote. They can adult all the things Knowing what I know about young people and their mushy brains, they should have gone the other way: raise the adult age to 23-25 at least: Voting, military membership, drinking, gun ownership, smoking... of course that would never fly, we need young stupid people to charge the machine gun nests, so 18 it is What fucking gun site am I on? 
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Originally Posted By graysonp: This will be interesting to see how the ATF responds. You can’t run a NICS check for a handgun for a person under 21, so until they update the website, it’s still impossible for FFLs to transfer handguns to an 18 year old. The next question becomes “does this only apply to handguns or other firearms that aren’t long guns”? What about shockwave type guns and stripped lowers? What about suppressors? I’m not sure if the federal statute specifically says 21 to transfer handguns, or if it says firearms with carve outs for long guns to those under 21. If it’s the latter, then the DOJ complying with this would also mean suppressors at 18 are good to go. Suppressors/SBRs are already good to go at 18, I say this as a 19yo that's already been through that system. |
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.
However much you hate the feds, it's not enough.
However much you hate the feds, it's not enough.
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Originally Posted By Killshot37: Suppressors/SBRs are already good to go at 18, I say this as a 19yo that's already been through that system. You cannot buy a suppressor from an FFL at 18. If you did, it was an illegal transfer. Federal law says you can only buy firearms if you are 21+, with a carve out that allows long guns for 18+. If you are talking about building your own or private transfers, that isn’t within the context of this thread. |