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Posted: 5/1/2011 10:02:48 PM EDT
Just curious how long does it take to run DNA. The raid took place yesterday 3pm EST and we have confirmation at 9pm EST.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:04:28 PM EDT
a few hours apparently... He was the most wanted man and all resources at our disposal to verify it was him...
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:08:42 PM EDT







Quoted:




a few hours apparently... He was the most wanted man and all resources at our disposal to verify it was him...




No doubt but I still think it takes more then 6 hours to test DNA.





I think the DNA part was mis-information via media
 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:10:43 PM EDT
You mean the DNA they are going to tell you about?
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:13:57 PM EDT
Depends on the test. There isn't just one kind of DNA test. Very basic DNA testing (eg a Southern blot comparison against another piece of DNA, utilizing restriction enzymes) can be done in a single day.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:18:28 PM EDT
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.





*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.


*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to




 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:21:19 PM EDT



Quoted:


I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  


So it's plausible thanks for the info!



 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:26:08 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  

So it's plausible thanks for the info!
 


It's plausible, but I do wonder if it's misinformation. This is all assuming that they got the DNA to a lab pretty much immediately, if Obama was indeed killed at 3 pm.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:39:55 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  


So it's plausible thanks for the info!

 




It's plausible, but I do wonder if it's misinformation. This is all assuming that they got the DNA to a lab pretty much immediately, if Obama was indeed killed at 3 pm.


That's what the news outlets are saying. Raid took place at 3pm



 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:41:23 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  


So it's plausible thanks for the info!

 




It's plausible, but I do wonder if it's misinformation. This is all assuming that they got the DNA to a lab pretty much immediately, if Obama was indeed killed at 3 pm.


True.  I find it hard to believe the military has a lab in Afghanistan or anywhere nearby that is capable of doing a DNA analysis on a moment's notice.  Equipment isn't cheap and the consumables necessary for PCR are perishable if not stored properly.



 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:46:14 PM EDT
Defrosting the cadaver took the most time of all
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 11:25:12 PM EDT


Go ask Wikipedia, this place is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy (also stupidity, based on the recent threads).
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 5:38:36 AM EDT
Quoted:
Just curious how long does it take to run DNA. The raid took place yesterday 3pm EST and we have confirmation at 9pm EST.


depends if they have a dedicated lab set up just for it (which I assume they do). I have been told by our crime lab people at work that it takes at the quickest for them atleast acouple of days the way they have to culture the DNA fromt he sample etc.

It takes us about 6 months at the quickest on cases but of course they are running DNA for about 1/2 the state of Michigan.

J-



Link Posted: 5/2/2011 5:41:58 AM EDT
ok but how do we have the control sample that we know is in fact DNA from bin laden, so we can use that to compare the sample from the dead body?

or does it not work that way?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 5:49:32 AM EDT
Quoted:
ok but how do we have the control sample that we know is in fact DNA from bin laden, so we can use that to compare the sample from the dead body?

or does it not work that way?


supposedly from his sister.. they should be close.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:20:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:22:16 AM EDT
Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  


We ran DNA samples on a high school field trip to a state research laboratory.  We created images just like that starting with blood samples in just a few hours.   I remember we had to let the samples sit for a while so the image could develop.  We all went lunch and by the time we came back the process was done.  

I think it's the volume of samples queued up for testing that makes it seem like DNA testing takes a long time.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:23:49 AM EDT
Takes about 20 minutes on Maury Povitch.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:24:37 AM EDT
Same I have heard..........supposedly she died of cancer and they kept her brain and other tissues for comparison

Quoted:
Quoted:
ok but how do we have the control sample that we know is in fact DNA from bin laden, so we can use that to compare the sample from the dead body?

or does it not work that way?


supposedly from his sister.. they should be close.


Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:25:29 AM EDT
Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.


Portable DNA scanners
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:25:58 AM EDT
Hospitals/clinics can't charge thousands of dollars if it only takes a couple mins to complete.

 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:26:32 AM EDT



Quoted:


I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  











 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:29:04 AM EDT
Quoted:
ok but how do we have the control sample that we know is in fact DNA from bin laden, so we can use that to compare the sample from the dead body?

or does it not work that way?


Any close relative would work for comparison. For example, if you have DNA from his sister (which we do) you can determine whether or not the dead guy is her sibling. You can't exactly say that it's definitely Osama, but "brother of Osama's sister" will work too.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:41:19 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  


 


Typically you remove the STR segments and then amplify them alone with PCR, regardless of the amount of DNA you have. You don't really want to amplify an entire DNA strand for the purposes of genetic comparison. I don't know if PCR is always necessary, but that's the only way I've heard of it being done.

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:47:44 AM EDT
I just wonder what was the hurry to send him to Davy Jones' locker so soon after "acquiring" him?  Waited 10yrs to get him, and ten minutes, ok hours to set loose his remains. Seems everything this admin does ends up causing tinfoil conspiracy controversy.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 6:50:55 AM EDT



Quoted:


I just wonder what was the hurry to send him to Davy Jones' locker so soon after "acquiring" him?  Waited 10yrs to get him, and ten minutes, ok hours to set loose his remains. Seems everything this admin does ends up causing tinfoil conspiracy controversy.



I'm sure they have physical evidence from the compound.  And the terrorists know.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:09:17 AM EDT







Quoted:
Quoted:



a few hours apparently... He was the most wanted man and all resources at our disposal to verify it was him...




No doubt but I still think it takes more then 6 hours to test DNA.
I think the DNA part was mis-information via media



 




I did a type of DNA test in highschool AP BIO lab and it took 30-60 minutes max...  they may have done a more involved test but I doubt it could take more than a few hours.
That is... if they actually did a test...  




ETA:  It was the test shown above and all of the necessary equipment was set up before we started.
 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:14:07 AM EDT
With Trump waiting in the weeds, I am sure Barry 'O did everything feasible to assure it was really UBL.  I think the "killed him, and buried him at sea within a few hours" is an "appease the RoPers" thing.  It also sent a signal that we are still in the game with the Pak government.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:19:12 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  

So it's plausible thanks for the info!
 


It's plausible, but I do wonder if it's misinformation. This is all assuming that they got the DNA to a lab pretty much immediately, if Obama was indeed killed at 3 pm.

True.  I find it hard to believe the military has a lab in Afghanistan or anywhere nearby that is capable of doing a DNA analysis on a moment's notice.  Equipment isn't cheap and the consumables necessary for PCR are perishable if not stored properly.
 

Given the mission, the importance of the target, and the likelihood that all you'd find of him are bits and pieces if he's hit by a bomb, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lab to do DNA testing there.

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:20:25 AM EDT
Also, wouldn't the presence of his family decrease the probability that the DNA test is correct?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:30:09 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  

So it's plausible thanks for the info!
 


It's plausible, but I do wonder if it's misinformation. This is all assuming that they got the DNA to a lab pretty much immediately, if Obama was indeed killed at 3 pm.

True.  I find it hard to believe the military has a lab in Afghanistan or anywhere nearby that is capable of doing a DNA analysis on a moment's notice.  Equipment isn't cheap and the consumables necessary for PCR are perishable if not stored properly.
 

Given the mission, the importance of the target, and the likelihood that all you'd find of him are bits and pieces if he's hit by a bomb, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lab to do DNA testing there.



Not a big deal to have it on a ship nearby.

Like the one the Seals inserted from and returned to.

When you have high value targets expense is not an issue.

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:38:58 AM EDT
I don't see why you'd need to use PCR if you've got a couple quarts of the subject's blood handy.  

Running a gel would take a few hours at most.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:40:58 AM EDT





Quoted:
Quoted:


I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.





*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.


*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to


http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  








You still need PCR for DNA testing that meets FBI standards.  PCR replicates segments of the DNA, it doesn't split it into base pairs unless you're specifically talking about the denature step in the thermocycling protocol.





The most likely method used was VNTR PCR.  VNTR stands for variable number tandem repeats.  Humans have 23 paired chromosomes.  One set comes from the mother, the other set comes from the father.  Each chromosome from the mother, or father, can be a little bit different in the number of "repeat sequence" repeats in a given region.  The more times the "repeat sequence" repeats themselves, the longer the space is and produces a larger product for the agarose gel.  Larger products will be near the top, shorter products will be near the bottom.





Using PCR, you amplify the regions flanking the VNTR sites.  You can have general VNTR sites as well as racial based VNTR sites.





The DNA testing can be done quickly.  You can make a PCR master mix in 15 minutes.  A   The block thermocycling will take 3-5 hours depending on how long the VNTR's are you're testing.   This took longer because there probably wasn't a sample of OBL's DNA on file.  The lab probably had to test a number of relatives to be able to have confidence.  It wouldn't have just been one sample of OBL's DNA.  It was likely at least 4 relatives samples to compare to the one in question.  There would have been repeat tests for confirmation too.  Finally, they may have followed up with SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) analysis to have more evidence of a match.





 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:43:21 AM EDT



Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:

a few hours apparently... He was the most wanted man and all resources at our disposal to verify it was him...


No doubt but I still think it takes more then 6 hours to test DNA.



I think the DNA part was mis-information via media

 


I did a type of DNA test in highschool AP BIO lab and it took 30-60 minutes max...  they may have done a more involved test but I doubt it could take more than a few hours.



That is... if they actually did a test...  







ETA:  It was the test shown above and all of the necessary equipment was set up before we started.

 


Ha ha.  I remember doing an agarose gel in AP Bio.



I was a little disappointed when I got to college and realized we never actually ran DNA.  The AP Bio teacher just gave us bromophenol blue lane marker and had us run that.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:43:59 AM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:

I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  




We ran DNA samples on a high school field trip to a state research laboratory.  We created images just like that starting with blood samples in just a few hours.   I remember we had to let the samples sit for a while so the image could develop.  We all went lunch and by the time we came back the process was done.  



I think it's the volume of samples queued up for testing that makes it seem like DNA testing takes a long time.



If you just did the imaging then the PCR part was already taken care of.  The supplies you used would have had a sufficiently large enough sample of DNA to run the electrophoresis.  When working on a sample from a body you're only going to be able to extract a certain amount of DNA (dependent on how many cells you use) and you're going to want it amplified...a lot.  That's where PCR comes in and after googling and seeing other responses in this thread I see that it can be done in about 4 hours instead of the 6-8 I said earlier.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:46:47 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.

*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.
*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to
http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  



The DNA testing can be done quickly.  You can make a PCR master mix in 15 minutes.  A   The block thermocycling will take 3-5 hours depending on how long the VNTR's are you're testing.   This took longer because there probably wasn't a sample of OBL's DNA on file.  The lab probably had to test a number of relatives to be able to have confidence.  It wouldn't have just been one sample of OBL's DNA.  It was likely at least 4 relatives samples to compare to the one in question.  There would have been repeat tests for confirmation too.  Finally, they may have followed up with SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) analysis to have more evidence of a match.

 


You also need to extract DNA from the cells.  Way back when I was a biochem undergrad that was usually the longest step (24 hours at 37C with cell digest cocktail).  The rest of the PCR and AGE could be done in about 6 hours.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:47:26 AM EDT



Quoted:





Quoted:

I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  



 


True, but that's a lot of cells/tissue to destroy for a decent sized sample.  It could be another reason to explain why they gave him a burial at sea, so no one would notice his lower arm missing.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:53:02 AM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:




Quoted:

I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  
No need for PCR amplification since you have the body.  PCR is used to take a single strand and replicate it so then you have enough DNA to split it into its base pairs, then run though electrophoresis for assay.  







The DNA testing can be done quickly.  You can make a PCR master mix in 15 minutes.  A   The block thermocycling will take 3-5 hours depending on how long the VNTR's are you're testing.   This took longer because there probably wasn't a sample of OBL's DNA on file.  The lab probably had to test a number of relatives to be able to have confidence.  It wouldn't have just been one sample of OBL's DNA.  It was likely at least 4 relatives samples to compare to the one in question.  There would have been repeat tests for confirmation too.  Finally, they may have followed up with SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) analysis to have more evidence of a match.



 




You also need to extract DNA from the cells.  Way back when I was a biochem undergrad that was usually the longest step (24 hours at 37C with cell digest cocktail).  The rest of the PCR and AGE could be done in about 6 hours.


They had the body.  It wasn't a crime scene sample that was limited.  They could have run a simple Qiagen prep in 30 minutes and had nanograms of DNA for PCR.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:06:01 AM EDT
Quoted:
Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.


Portable DNA scanners


I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:20:20 AM EDT

Quoted:
Quoted:




Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.





Portable DNA scanners





I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts





The US armed forces have standardized on the the JBAIDS for biowarfare organism identification in a lab based setting for all branches.  They also like products from ABI and Cepheid, so each branch lab will have more than just a JBAIDS.  ABI is used a lot in labs because of its throughput.  There is no standardized equipment for DNA fingerprint analysis.  As long as the protocol has been validated, found within specs, and followed it's accepted.  Many labs used many different modifications to same core technology.
NetBio, the place that makes the DHS portable scanner, makes shit currently.  The government doesn't like to have all its eggs in one basket.  The government is throwing a ton of money at microfluidic technology and well as electrical microarray technology.
The government is still stuck in singleplex assay bio-identification mode.  They keep putting out RFI's for multiplex systems and they're written up with years of T&E.  They did this the standard way.
 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:26:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 11:06:51 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.


Portable DNA scanners


I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts


The US armed forces have standardized on the the JBAIDS for biowarfare organism identification in a lab based setting for all branches.  They also like products from ABI and Cepheid, so each branch lab will have more than just a JBAIDS.  ABI is used a lot in labs because of its throughput.  There is no standardized equipment for DNA fingerprint analysis.  As long as the protocol has been validated, found within specs, and followed it's accepted.  Many labs used many different modifications to same core technology.

NetBio, the place that makes the DHS portable scanner, makes shit currently.  The government doesn't like to have all its eggs in one basket.  The government is throwing a ton of money at microfluidic technology and well as electrical microarray technology.

The government is still stuck in singleplex assay bio-identification mode.  They keep putting out RFI's for multiplex systems and they're written up with years of T&E.  They did this the standard way.
 


Now they are saying (government) that they are 99% sure it was him. Why even mention the the percentage?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 11:11:16 AM EDT
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Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.


Portable DNA scanners


I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts


The US armed forces have standardized on the the JBAIDS for biowarfare organism identification in a lab based setting for all branches.  They also like products from ABI and Cepheid, so each branch lab will have more than just a JBAIDS.  ABI is used a lot in labs because of its throughput.  There is no standardized equipment for DNA fingerprint analysis.  As long as the protocol has been validated, found within specs, and followed it's accepted.  Many labs used many different modifications to same core technology.

NetBio, the place that makes the DHS portable scanner, makes shit currently.  The government doesn't like to have all its eggs in one basket.  The government is throwing a ton of money at microfluidic technology and well as electrical microarray technology.

The government is still stuck in singleplex assay bio-identification mode.  They keep putting out RFI's for multiplex systems and they're written up with years of T&E.  They did this the standard way.
 


Now they are saying (government) that they are 99% sure it was him. Why even mention the the percentage?


Intellectual honesty.  There is always a statistical uncertainty with any test.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 11:11:27 AM EDT



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I forget exactly how long it takes to run a typical PCR reaction but I think it's around 6-8 hours.  Then around an hour or more for the electrophoresis.  PCR might take a skilled scientist 30 minutes or so to prepare and set up while the electrophoresis can be prepared while the PCR is running.



*PCR-polymerase chain reaction.  It's how you make thousands-millions of copies of DNA from one or a few pieces.

*Electrophoresis-using electricity to drive DNA fragments through a matrix of agarose gel.  Larger fragments don't move through the holes in the matrix as quickly as smaller pieces.  You end up with a picture looking similar to

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/gel_electrophoresis.gif  


I've done them in about 4 hours, and the guys running these tests have better equipment and skill than I have which should shave a little bit of time.

 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 11:24:50 AM EDT



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Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.





Portable DNA scanners





I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts





The US armed forces have standardized on the the JBAIDS for biowarfare organism identification in a lab based setting for all branches.  They also like products from ABI and Cepheid, so each branch lab will have more than just a JBAIDS.  ABI is used a lot in labs because of its throughput.  There is no standardized equipment for DNA fingerprint analysis.  As long as the protocol has been validated, found within specs, and followed it's accepted.  Many labs used many different modifications to same core technology.



NetBio, the place that makes the DHS portable scanner, makes shit currently.  The government doesn't like to have all its eggs in one basket.  The government is throwing a ton of money at microfluidic technology and well as electrical microarray technology.



The government is still stuck in singleplex assay bio-identification mode.  They keep putting out RFI's for multiplex systems and they're written up with years of T&E.  They did this the standard way.

 




Now they are saying (government) that they are 99% sure it was him. Why even mention the the percentage?


Because VNTR analysis is based on probability.  If it's really at 99% then the turn around time makes sense.  You can be 99.999% sure from more in depth analysis and each set of VNTR's you target only make it better.  For forensic use there is a cutoff where it's determined to be specific enough and not too costly.



The Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium equation gives you a way to calculate the probability of encountering a person at random that matches the specific VNTR profile that needs to be matched.



To match an unknown sample to a database you want to see a high probability of markers that match.  You want to see all markers on the sample to match a database entry if you want good court evidence.



If you're trying to match DNA from one individual to a relative of that individual all the markers won't give a 100% match because of chromosome segregation during meiosis.  You'll get a statistically relevant match to an individual though



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 11:28:41 AM EDT
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Department of Homeland Security and the TSA apparently are set to test portable "instant" dna scanners this summer at airports; it is supposed to give results in less than an hour. Apparently this is technology that has been developed for the US Government. Question, what would be the purpose to test at airports? Kind of scary if you think about it. The start of a DNA data base on US citizens? If the technology is indeed legit, one can assume the Armed forces will have their own scanners as well.  Google searches come up goose eggs on the manufacturer. Plenty of press releases announcing the implimentation beginning this summer.


Portable DNA scanners


I'm quoting myself because; how accurate are these and do you suppose this is what the Armed services used? Sorry, just feeling a little snubbed by all you experts


The US armed forces have standardized on the the JBAIDS for biowarfare organism identification in a lab based setting for all branches.  They also like products from ABI and Cepheid, so each branch lab will have more than just a JBAIDS.  ABI is used a lot in labs because of its throughput.  There is no standardized equipment for DNA fingerprint analysis.  As long as the protocol has been validated, found within specs, and followed it's accepted.  Many labs used many different modifications to same core technology.

NetBio, the place that makes the DHS portable scanner, makes shit currently.  The government doesn't like to have all its eggs in one basket.  The government is throwing a ton of money at microfluidic technology and well as electrical microarray technology.

The government is still stuck in singleplex assay bio-identification mode.  They keep putting out RFI's for multiplex systems and they're written up with years of T&E.  They did this the standard way.
 


Now they are saying (government) that they are 99% sure it was him. Why even mention the the percentage?

Because VNTR analysis is based on probability.  If it's really at 99% then the turn around time makes sense.  You can be 99.999% sure from more in depth analysis and each set of VNTR's you target only make it better.  For forensic use there is a cutoff where it's determined to be specific enough and not too costly.

The Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium equation gives you a way to calculate the probability of encountering a person at random that matches the specific VNTR profile that needs to be matched.

To match an unknown sample to a database you want to see a high probability of markers that match.  You want to see all markers on the sample to match a database entry if you want good court evidence.

If you're trying to match DNA from one individual to a relative of that individual all the markers won't give a 100% match because of chromosome segregation during meiosis.  You'll get a statistically relevant match to an individual though
 


Thanks.
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