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Posted: 10/4/2004 4:30:39 PM EST
It seems like every time I turn around my current computer is getting too old to run the new games. I have a P4 1.3Ghz system with 1024 MB Ram, nice video card, etc., but lately it is getting long in the tooth for games.

I play mostly Battlefield 1942 (Desert Combat mod) and a few other older games.

I got to thinking - I could replace my computer system with a top of the line $2000+ system, or just keep this one for the basics (web surfing, some games, word processing) and get a much less expensive console unit.

Could a console go online and play against others? Like through a cable modem? And which console would be best?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:42:03 PM EST
You can get a new mb/cpu/memory and cannibalize your old system for parts--you said your vid was OK.

1.3GHz is too pokey even for BF1942.

You should be able to set yourself up for $400 or so with a nice MB and a 2.8G Hyperthreaded 1MB cache CPU and 1GB of memory.

Consoles suck. PCs can do anything.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:43:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 4:48:14 PM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:47:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:49:17 PM EST
It just seems like a PITA to always have to upgrade. Plus with consoles you can rent games at Blockbuster or Hollywood Video and give them a spin instead of having to buy them.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:51:18 PM EST
Xbox. PC gaming is for nerds.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:51:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:53:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I don't know, I say PC and I will always like PC games over console, it's just my bias.
But everytime I buy a video card that costs MORE then a complete console with even some games, I wonder why I still do it.

Then I install the video card and whatever goodies, then play a modern PC game and then I understand why I spend so muchhr


All I have to do is try to use one of those damnable console controllers and I understand why I spend so much.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:55:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By JoeWang:

Consoles suck. PCs can do anything.






Amen, brother!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:00:29 PM EST
I would go with the Xbox. You don't have to worry about what game will or wont run on it. You don't need patches when games break, you don't need to update drivers, you don't have to sit and install games, game crashes are few and far between.

I use to be into PC games, but it's a never ending rat race to upgrade that gets quite expensive.

As far as cheap games, there are tons of Xbox platinum hits that are $20, some NEW games like ESPN NFL/NHL 2K5 are only $20. You can't beat that.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:00:36 PM EST
The graphics of the latest consoles are about on par with the GeForce 3 video cards which is good stuff for back in the day...but that's VERY crappy today. The next generation of consoles will jump back up to be just behind the PC's, then they will lag again for years. It's too pricey for companies to constantly upgrade consoles.

Yeah, a 1.3 is crawling for BF1942. But $2000 is a bit much for a smokin' system. Let's see...

A64 3000/mobo, 1GB PC3200 memory,120GB drive, GeForce 6600GT video card (due out in a month or three)...around $750 for the upgrade f you didn't do the rebate stuff. A built a new system from those basic specs.

The video card is the MAJOR contributor to gaming performance as long as the CPU is in the ballpark. The 1.3 isn't in the ballpark, but a $99 AMD2800/mobo combo would be in the ballpark. Figure 3 years max for a gaming system...1 1/2-2 if you game a lot.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:04:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Xbox. PC gaming is for nerds.



Guess Im just a nerd then.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:14:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
It seems like every time I turn around my current computer is getting too old to run the new games. I have a P4 1.3Ghz system with 1024 MB Ram, nice video card, etc., but lately it is getting long in the tooth for games.

I play mostly Battlefield 1942 (Desert Combat mod) and a few other older games.

I got to thinking - I could replace my computer system with a top of the line $2000+ system, or just keep this one for the basics (web surfing, some games, word processing) and get a much less expensive console unit.



Personally, I'd recommend the cannibalize and upgrade path. You won't need anywhere near 2000 for it. $350 will get you a nice motherboard and a 3.0-3.2ghz Intel processor. Take the ram you have, sound card, etc.....another $150 for a Radeon 9600XT (I used that because I'm guessing you're not one of those '120fps'ers), and for $500 bucks you've got a pretty damn good system. Make it 700 and you can swap the 9600XT for an nVidia GeForce 6800GT.....

Let's put it this way....I've got a PS2 and a very nice library of games (hell, in the past week I just bought Prince of Perisa, Super Smash Court Tennis 2, Madden 2005 CE, and Enter the Matrix which was a woefully underrated game!), and I'd say I spend about 10% of my time playing it, with the rest on the PC. PC games just have so much more depth and so many more options, not to mention the ability to really pump up the wow factors (graphics, sound). I mean, hey....I'd take Halo running at 1600x1200 any day!


Could a console go online and play against others? Like through a cable modem? And which console would be best?



Absolutely. Most consoles will need an adapter unit, but they can then go online either dialup or broadband and play games with anyone else who's online.

As for which console.....my opinion is to look at the games. Check and see which console has the most games you'd want to play, and go for that. I went PS2 for that reason.....but YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:20:01 PM EST
go for versatility...get a pc
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:25:33 PM EST
XBOX vs can do anything?

Hummm guess I'm a nerd.

OBTW have you seen Halo on a ATI 9800XT with a ATHLON 64 instead of a XBOX?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:39:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:40:55 PM EST
I look at it this way:

Sitting alone in the dark in your little dork cave playing your $3k wonder system

vs.

Sitting in your living room with a bunch of buds knocking back some brews and beating the shit out of each other on the bigscreen.

Two qualifiers:
1) If you have your $3k wonder system rigged into the living room, you have just slipped further down the nerd hole, not climbed out of it.
2) The living room/beer option requires that you do in fact have buds. If you have none, that explains the dork cave.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:47:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Xbox. PC gaming is for nerds.



Guess Im just a nerd then.



No you are just a lot smarter ...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:52:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:52:43 PM EST by the]
This should answer the question:

half-life2
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:54:16 PM EST
I wouldn't mine the Xbox, but I can't use the stupid controller for games like Halo. First person shooters are WAY better with a mouse and keyboard. They make one of those for the Xbox?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:57:10 PM EST
Get a midrange computer and a console system you like.

Play your PC games that you cant get on console and still have a console system for company and other games.


I only have a PC myself.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:03:33 PM EST
Go with a PC. If you buy a console this is what will happen:

(You have just assumed the role of a 38 yr. old, 290 pd. virgin male... if you weren't one already)

- Yay, Hey Mom, look what I got... a brand new kick ass CONSOLE!! WEEEE!!

- Mom, why are all my games based around gay ass stuff like dancing to techno music and chasing gold rings with some douche bag hedge hog?

- Mom, we need to spend some more money on an internet hook-up for my console because playing game sucks alone!

- (Two weeks after you bought your "amazing, kick ass, super-duper console) Mom, they just came out with the X-Box 2... So, I think you're going to have to skip dialysis this week and I'm going to have to donate sperm and blood because I NEEEEEEDDDD that console!!


Have I effectively illustrated why buying a PC is the way to go... if not, go ahead and buy a console. BUT, don't be angry at me when your life is a hell-hole and you are still masterbating nightly in your parent's basement which, to make you feel better, you call the "Dungeon of Dragonthorp"!!


Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:08:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:09:06 PM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:11:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:11:57 PM EST
Get both.


The xbox on its own is pretty weak, but throw in a mod chip and you're good to go.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:13:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:15:07 PM EST by GrH_Revelation]
In Reference to Lightning_p38 -


Oh yea... Good point... no wait, it wasn't... because... YEP... THAT'S RIGHT... I think Bill Gates was a greasy-haired, ugly looking fucktard that is what.... hmmm... DING DING DING... One, if not THE, richest man in the world? So... when a bunch of douche bags make that kind of money by putting mod-chips in X-boxs or PS2's or by inserting a Drive Emulator into an X-box... then I will be impressed.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:14:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
I wouldn't mine the Xbox, but I can't use the stupid controller for games like Halo. First person shooters are WAY better with a mouse and keyboard. They make one of those for the Xbox?



+1,000,000

I can't stand the controllers. My friends play HALO constantly but I can't get the hang of those freakin controllers.

Upgrade the computer if you like computer games or like to play online. Consoles are for hanging out with your buddies in front of the TV.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:56:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By GrH_Revelation:
In Reference to Lightning_p38 -


Oh yea... Good point... no wait, it wasn't... because... YEP... THAT'S RIGHT... I think Bill Gates was a greasy-haired, ugly looking fucktard that is what.... hmmm... DING DING DING... One, if not THE, richest man in the world? So... when a bunch of douche bags make that kind of money by putting mod-chips in X-boxs or PS2's or by inserting a Drive Emulator into an X-box... then I will be impressed.



sorry, you just outed yourself dork-boy. The simple fact that you hate bill gates, and know what the fuck a mod-chip or a drive emulator is has shown your true colors. Now back to your dork-cave for another game of Leisure Suit Larry (the closest you're going to get to any play). If you're nice your mommy might bring you some milk & cookies.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:36:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By hard-case:

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
It seems like every time I turn around my current computer is getting too old to run the new games. I have a P4 1.3Ghz system with 1024 MB Ram, nice video card, etc., but lately it is getting long in the tooth for games.

I play mostly Battlefield 1942 (Desert Combat mod) and a few other older games.

I got to thinking - I could replace my computer system with a top of the line $2000+ system, or just keep this one for the basics (web surfing, some games, word processing) and get a much less expensive console unit.



Personally, I'd recommend the cannibalize and upgrade path. You won't need anywhere near 2000 for it. $350 will get you a nice motherboard and a 3.0-3.2ghz Intel processor. Take the ram you have, sound card, etc.....another $150 for a Radeon 9600XT (I used that because I'm guessing you're not one of those '120fps'ers), and for $500 bucks you've got a pretty damn good system. Make it 700 and you can swap the 9600XT for an nVidia GeForce 6800GT.....

Let's put it this way....I've got a PS2 and a very nice library of games (hell, in the past week I just bought Prince of Perisa, Super Smash Court Tennis 2, Madden 2005 CE, and Enter the Matrix which was a woefully underrated game!), and I'd say I spend about 10% of my time playing it, with the rest on the PC. PC games just have so much more depth and so many more options, not to mention the ability to really pump up the wow factors (graphics, sound). I mean, hey....I'd take Halo running at 1600x1200 any day!


Could a console go online and play against others? Like through a cable modem? And which console would be best?



Absolutely. Most consoles will need an adapter unit, but they can then go online either dialup or broadband and play games with anyone else who's online.

As for which console.....my opinion is to look at the games. Check and see which console has the most games you'd want to play, and go for that. I went PS2 for that reason.....but YMMV.


Good plan, but he probably has the old style sdram, not DDR that runs at a good speed.
Here's my current budget gamer:
Dell 400SC 2.8 gig P4
1 gig of 400mhz DDR Ram
200 gig HD
radeon 9600 Pro
DVDR
5.1 sound
The whole thing cost me less than 600 after rebates and he could sell the old sysem on Ebay for 150 or so....
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:49:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ratters:
I can't stand the controllers. My friends play HALO constantly but I can't get the hang of those freakin controllers.



Thats my biggest gripe. I am too used to the mouse/keyboard combo.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:06:42 AM EST
+1 on the PC. I haven't touched my XBOX in probably 9 months. The PC games offer so much more in almost all categories ( the made for PC games, not the crossover games from the console ).
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:22:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
And how is that different than the hordes of greasy haired twenty somethings I see debating wich video card they are going to get to stick into thier Neon lighted 733t Hax0rz b0x so they can get that extra half of a FPS, so they can reclaim thier rightful status as king of the EverQuest dorks?

Edited to add: The last game my parents bought for me was played on a Atari 2600.




Because I spend about 2 hours a week playing games. I don't spend my life playing games, and going to blockbuster to check out the latest ones every month. I surf the web, type reports, copy data on to cd's, etc. My nine year old has a PS2.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:32:32 AM EST
Theres a simple fact of life.

Keyboard+mouse > ANY gamepad.

Aside form that, I havent ever heard of 100,000 pots for Xbox. Counter Strike on the other hand has MAJOR tournaments with HUGE sums of money up for grabs.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:07:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:20:29 AM EST
Keyboard and Mouse adapter for the Xbox: Lik-Sang

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:55:57 PM EST
1. How easy is it to swap out a motherboard?

My current system is in need of an upgrade. I'm not Mr. Techno-Genius but I have opened up computers before to install hard drives and the like. But I've never swapped a motherboard. Is it plug-and-play?

Dell Dimension 8100 1.7 GHz P4 (was pretty smokin in 2001 when I bought it)
nVidea GeForce 32 MB video card
256 MB RAM
60 GB 7,200 rpm HD

2. Where would you recommend the purchase of a motherboard? For video cards I think the consensus is newegg.com but I'm open to suggestions.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:57:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:01:54 PM EST
My home computer is a P3 450. Doah! Next season, my tax software will probably laugh at me. I'll be on the lookout for Christmas sales...
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:05:30 PM EST
i'm a computer/network technican and i design all the gaming systems our customers want for personal use. there is a very good chance you can simply upgrade your processor without changing motherboards... for under $300.00 you could get a p4 3.0 cpu. for around $400.00 you could get a nvidia 6800 gt. this would give you a computer system that would kick any consoles ass for sometime...

what kind of motherboard are you using now?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:08:28 PM EST
XBOX is awesome. It has the best graphics of any video game console on the market, and better graphics than your PC is giving you. You can pick one up new for around $150 with controller and games included. You can also connect it to any highspeed internet to play against others online.

XBOX 2 will be out soon too. Don't know when, but I remember reading about it a few months ago.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:12:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:12:53 PM EST
Just keep upgrading your PC as JoeWang suggested.

I have not purchased a new PC in a decade. Every year I toss a few bucks at the current one. I buy the -1 generation of whatever is out. For instance... just picked up an ATI9800Pro to replace my old GF3-TI200... cost was about $150.

I do the same for CPUs, Memory, Motherboard. Every few years you will need a new case to go along with a given MoBo.

I lived on BF1942-DC. Really looking forward to BF-2.

No need to spend $2000. For under $500 you can be back on top.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:13:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By the:
This should answer the question:

half-life2



I swear I saw a 'Holosight' on one of the guns in that game.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:17:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
First person shooters are WAY better with a mouse and keyboard.



+1

I won an X-box system and never took it out of the box. I sold it immediately.

I do prefer to play games on the PC. I tend to upgrade my PC every three years or so. The fastest MB/CPU/RAM that can be had for $250 is usually what I get. I refuse to spend any more than that on a MB/CPU. I have thrown too many of them away in my time after they become worthless.

I tend to upgrade my video card on off years; this lets me stretch the useful life of the system even more. A fast video card can pick up the slack for a slow CPU, and vice versa.



Glad you gave XBOX a try!!!

Also, is it worth $1000-$2000 every 3 years to keep up with a $200-$300 every 3 years dedicated video game console?

Get it?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:25:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
XBOX is awesome. It has the best graphics of any video game console on the market, and better graphics than your PC is giving you.




Ya OK.
Ignorance is bliss actually, I wish I was ignorant, I'd have more money.
You think people spend dough on computer video cards for the hell of it?

The PC can render pixel and texture depths even with a video card 2 years old that your Xbox could only dream of.




+1

Console lads seem to have no clue that the technology they are running on is 4+ year old PC technology. An X-Box is a Pentium 3 733 and an early GF3 graphics chip, sharing the same scant 64mb of memory.

An X-Box is a 4-year-old PC without a mouse or keyboard.



Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:29:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
First person shooters are WAY better with a mouse and keyboard.



+1

I won an X-box system and never took it out of the box. I sold it immediately.

I do prefer to play games on the PC. I tend to upgrade my PC every three years or so. The fastest MB/CPU/RAM that can be had for $250 is usually what I get. I refuse to spend any more than that on a MB/CPU. I have thrown too many of them away in my time after they become worthless.

I tend to upgrade my video card on off years; this lets me stretch the useful life of the system even more. A fast video card can pick up the slack for a slow CPU, and vice versa.



Glad you gave XBOX a try!!!

Also, is it worth $1000-$2000 every 3 years to keep up with a $200-$300 every 3 years dedicated video game console?

Get it?



For $200-$300 I can buy a 4-year old PC. I just tend to avoid 4-year old technology, be it an ancient PC or an new X-Box.

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:03:00 PM EST
I used to use my computer for gaming and productivity. I picked up an Xbox and use that for most of my gaming now, plus I can watch DVD's on it (yes I have a DVD drive on my comp). Lately I only use the computer for internet, and office work. I'm almost to the point where I'll pick up a laptop and just use that since it uses less space, and I want to spend more time working on my retirement funds instead of having a kick ass gaming machine.

If you are not, or don't want too spend a lot of time tweaking in front of a machine get a console.

YMMV
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:16:03 PM EST
I would say outside of the keyboard/mouse issue which I mentioned earlier is that I find it is the mods which actually make the game. I bought HL but played TFC, Q3 but played Q3F, BF42 but played DC among others. Also d/l'ed many excellent games such as Steel Panthers:WAW and gig's of 3rd party maps for almost every game I have owned. You just don't have the same flexibility with a console.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:08:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:56:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By jthuang:
1. How easy is it to swap out a motherboard?

My current system is in need of an upgrade. I'm not Mr. Techno-Genius but I have opened up computers before to install hard drives and the like. But I've never swapped a motherboard. Is it plug-and-play?

Dell Dimension 8100 1.7 GHz P4 (was pretty smokin in 2001 when I bought it)
nVidea GeForce 32 MB video card
256 MB RAM
60 GB 7,200 rpm HD

2. Where would you recommend the purchase of a motherboard? For video cards I think the consensus is newegg.com but I'm open to suggestions.



Swapping out the mobo/cpu isn't real hard...about the same as buildint an AR-15. The first time you'll take a couple hours making sure you got everything right, but there's several online guides and the motherboard manual to walk you through it. It's helpful to have a friend walk you through the first one. But after that, the 2nd one goes pretty fast.

For major manufacturers such as Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc. A few of their cases were proprietary and might prevent a straight motherboard swap without a lot of Dremel time and creativity. However, recently this hasn't been much of a problem and IIRC, the Dell 8100 series has a good size case with the standardized ATX motherboard.

It's possible to swap out a motherboard/cpu without reinstalling the operating system...particularly on Windows XP. I've done it several times...twice this year in fact. It's cleaner to format the drive and reinstall..but then again, that's always cleaner, just a lot more work. It's not the CPU or memory that is the factor with reinstalling the operating system..it's the components (devices) of the motherboard...built in audio, LAN, etc. But again, with XP, this isn't much of a problem.

Your 60GB drive should be fine, but figure a 3Ghz/AMD 3000 cpu with compatible motherboard...then you'll need DDR memory of either PC2700/3200...and a bare minimum of 512MB (1GB recommended)...and then the video card. Several people have mentioned the 9600Pro or XT. I have a 9600XT myself, it's a great card, but two years old already. For $200, the 9800 Pro 128MB card (with 256-bit bus is a smoking deal for a ton more performance. If you can wait, the GeForce 6600GT is coming out and looks to shame the mighty 9800Pro for the same price. If you've got money and are really into gaming, then the X800 or the 6800 GT or Ultra is the way to go.

The video card makes a major contribution to gaming.

Where to buy the motherboard? Wherever you can swap it out if it's bad. If you have a local store such as a Fry's Electronics, it's easy to swap out when you get a bad mobo...but Fry's seems to have a higher number of bad mobo's than other places. Newegg is good. For some of the other online places...read all the fine print, some of them make it difficult to swap out the board, or you might have to pay an extra $8-15 when you buy the board to have a warranty. You don't really need a year warranty though, once you get the board in, you'll know within a week if anything's wrong (probably within a day or two).
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:12:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Why the hell would you guys tell him to get a 9600?

That card is over 2 years old.

Don't get anything less then a 9800pro.



+11ty

The 9800Pro is a sweet video card, but it's also the bare minimum for anyone who's looking to buy a new card. Getting anything less and you'll be cursing your system in 12-18 months.

As a side note...we're seeing lots of "256MB" lower end cards...9200's, 5200's, etc. The amount of memory on the card is not even close to a direct factor of the speed of the card. I'll take a 256-bit 9800Pro w/128MB of memory over a 9600XT w/256MB of memory every day of the week and twice on Saturday. True, future games will be using that much memory and if you can get 256MB, go for it, but 128MB is more than plenty for almost every game out there. The core GPU of the card is the big doggie.
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