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Posted: 10/30/2004 6:00:22 AM EST


I just received notice of a hearing for a rezoning application. A local company wants to build an apartment complex nearby. From what I can tell on the map, the complex is going to run up to the backyards of the people across the street from me. The people who'll own the complex have several other complexes in a nearby town that run from decent to downright trashy.

I live in a QUIET neighborhood..the only police car I've ever seen belongs to the guy around the corner. The hearing is in a couple of weeks. Is there something I can do or am I SOL on this one?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:02:53 AM EST
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:03:59 AM EST
got to the hearing and voice your concern.maybe do some some research on the increase in crime before and after some of there other complex where built maybe it will help to keep it from getting rezoned if the crime rate has gone up.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:06:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 6:08:52 AM EST by VoodooChile]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



Can't build it unless they have the proper zoning..even if they do own it..or am I wrong? I see you've never had a neighbor blasting hiphop music at 4am
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:10:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



No shit. You have a problem, buy the land. Otherwise STFU.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:13:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:17:17 AM EST
Damn, that's good cmjohnson.
Evil, but good.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:22:31 AM EST
A less poisonous (but more morbid) version on cmjohnsons plan is to bury some obvious body parts, flint tools, charcoal, etc.

I believe that once body parts are found, all construction has to stop since it "may" be a burial site, or "may" be an important unkown archaeological site. Artifacts - like arrowheads, firepits, etc are not enough - there have to be human remains for them to have no choice but to stop the construction.

The Dioxin plan is good - but it can hurt the resale value of your own home - if there's a contaminated site that requires EPA testing right behind your backyard.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:33:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



You're forgetting they want to rezone the land. Zoning laws are only imposed and enforced on the little guy. Big company comes along, pays the right people, legal actions. Gets the rules changed to suit them.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:35:50 AM EST
You are so screwed. As soon as the apartments are occupied; maybe before, your across the street neighbors will have sold their houses to low income families that are government subsidised or even sold them to a government program like a halfway house. You are going to lose money unless you are among the first to sell out and get away.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:37:33 AM EST
If you want the luxury of solitude and quite in your domocile.

Step up to the plate, buy a 50 acre parcel and build in the middle of it.

Saying what someone else should do with their property is like others telling you what guns you can and can't have.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:39:04 AM EST
Another NIMBY!

Can't stop progress, it's Un-American!


If you really care about the neighborhood, get your self and your neighbors involved. While you may not be able to stop the project, a well-organized group can often pressure the developer (and the city) into building more "suitable" housing. Maybe get them to scale it back, to mitigate the traffic and other effects, and make the project less intrusive in your life.

Of course, that would require organizing, paying *money*, getting a lawyer or six, and being willing to take the time to learn what the problems and solutions are. It is possible to make a difference, though.


Or, you could just become the old fart that shows up at all the city council/building commission meetings and uses the community feedback time to rant and rave about all and assorted social ills. If you do that, it would help to come with way too many boxes and bags full of papers, forget to shave or wash your clothes, or comb your hair.

I guess that's better than being an eco-terrorist...
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:42:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



+1
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:50:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By badeffect10:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



+1




Well, if you are an ELF member, you would let construction begin, then burn it down in the middle of the night, and leave a sign that says "If you build it, we will burn it."
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:51:52 AM EST
Gonna be hard to stop this unless you get a petition signed by alot of folks in the area, and show up at the meeting. Submit the petition and let the pressure be on the council. Cite that crime will rise as well as noise pollution and that your property value will fall.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:53:04 AM EST
move
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:07:55 AM EST
I was living in Lake Forest, IL when Mr. T bought his estate on Green Bay Road, and cut down 90% of the trees, and had it sodded (the typical California estate look). Mr. and Mrs. White Bread had shit fits, and many of them spoke from behind their closed doors to the various Chicago news stations (they wanted to bitch, but not to be ID'd) talking about how it wasn't "in the culture of LF" to have "that kind of behavior". From most of the bitching, you couldn't tell if they were more upset about the trees, or the fact that a flamboyant black man had actually (gasp) moved into town. Of course, they couldn't admit the latter one publicly.

I used to argue in support of his actions. The argument was made that 65% of the green stuff on his lot was garbage greenery (overgrown weeds), but I said it didn;t make a difference. As long as it was on his side of the fence, the neighbors should STFU.

If VoodooChile was talking about a single-family home, and the neighbors were complaining because the guy was building an art-deco cement building in a neighborhood full of cape cods, I'd be with the "anti NIMBY" voices on this one. The difference is, we're talking about a non-owner-occupied apartment building, if I understand the post correctly.

There a big difference in my book between an individual who lives in the community and owns property who has a concern about the value of the neighborhood, and a company who only cares that their section 8 reimbursement arrives on time, and they don't have to replace doors the PD kicks down when busting the renters for dealing.

If you've got the time and resources, videotape the other complexes, showing traffic patterns, parking problems and congestion (if it's there). From the sidewalk (to avoid trespassing issues), show upkeep of property (littler, shrubs, dirt paths from parking areas to doorways, garbage collection areas). These are the biggest arguments you have, since they can and will affect your property values. A simple NIMBY won't do.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:09:05 AM EST
As someone who used to lend big bucks for multi-family properties, I NEVER saw community action EVER stop construction from going forward.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:09:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



Notice he said a notice aobut an application for RE-zoning. So actually he does have a say. They probably want to re-zone it from commercial to residential or something like that, not abig thing but at the same time, he still has a say, though in the end the palm greesing by the company will still work. Besides that even if he bought the land I'd bet hard earned cash that the company would pull some eminate domain bullshit and have the land taken for their use.

Either way, get more info than go from there.


Dude find out what you can it might be they want to put some higher $$ apartments in, that would be less of a problem to me than say they wanted to put in some low income housing type stuff where the p[otential to bring the scumm out to the area would be greater. get more intel, than decide from there. If you still don't like the idea, go voice yer opinion.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:10:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.

If you want to stop it, buy it buy the property.

Otherwise, from my point of view you have no say. Nothing irritates me more than people who want to dictate what to everyone else what they can and cannot do on thier property.



What irritates me...

Down in South Austin, there's a place called Southpark Meadows. A big field/farm type land that they built a stage on and have had concerts at for probably 20 years. Across the main road right there, which was widened greatly, a residential development went up. 5 years later, the residents there were bitching and complaining every time Southpark Meadows had a concert, because traffic got bad, and sometimes drunk fans would get pretty noisy.

My response: Tough shit. You built right next to a popular venue. Don't want to deal with it? MOVE.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:11:10 AM EST
Organize all of your neighbors, petition the entire neighborhood for the town council to stop the rezoning or building. some places have different rules like if the entire neighborhood does or doesn't want something you run a petition. However, someone else mentioned the money thing, and your right. Never hurts to try, you've only got your solitude to lose.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:12:58 AM EST
FWIW no new construction is Section 8
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:13:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 7:14:59 AM EST by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:14:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:16:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator: I NEVER saw community action EVER stop construction from going forward.
....Me too
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:17:53 AM EST
I was thinking along the lines of Indian bones. A burial site would halt contruction.
Or, if you could get your hands on a spotted owl, etc...
Get some endangered frogs, and set them up a nice habitat.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:18:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:
move




I just moved in earlier this year. Moving is not an option right now. I'm all for people doing what they want on their own land..it's just when they increase the crime rate and trash the neighborhood property value I think it becomes my business. I hear people on here ranting all the time about "my neighbor plays this music or drives some loudass ricemobile" etc.

I'll think I'll take the earlier advice and see what the effect on local crime the other developments have or have not created. If it turns out these people have a track record of building slums then I'll fight it..I'd rather do something about it now then show up here in a few years posting about the crackhouse next door. I have two toddlers and one on the way so 'scuse me if I get a little protective of the street they'll be playing on someday.



Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:19:04 AM EST
When you bought your property, what did you think was going in there? Did you think the land would stay vacant forever? Seems to me you should feel damn lucky they don't rezone it industrial...
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:21:29 AM EST
You're forgetting they want to rezone the land. Zoning laws are only imposed and enforced on the little guy. Big company comes along, pays the right people, legal actions. Gets the rules changed to suit them.

That is the way it has always been. Just question the Zoning Board and see how they circle the wagon and unleash the dogs of hell on you.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:39:24 AM EST
Be one of the first to pick out your apartment!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:50:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tango7:

If VoodooChile was talking about a single-family home, and the neighbors were complaining because the guy was building an art-deco cement building in a neighborhood full of cape cods, I'd be with the "anti NIMBY" voices on this one. The difference is, we're talking about a non-owner-occupied apartment building, if I understand the post correctly.

There a big difference in my book between an individual who lives in the community and owns property who has a concern about the value of the neighborhood, and a company who only cares that their section 8 reimbursement arrives on time, and they don't have to replace doors the PD kicks down when busting the renters for dealing.





Remember an apt. building is a business. You'd restrict the property owner's right to conduct their business as they see fit?

I wouldn't. But I would expect them to run their business in such a way that it doesn't threaten the safety of my neighborhood.

Of course, I wouldn't want it there in the first place, no matter how it was run. But since it's gonna happen regardless, best to move it in the best direction possible.

Organize the neighbors, it's the only way.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:26:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By hanau:
got to the hearing and voice your concern.maybe do some some research on the increase in crime before and after some of there other complex where built maybe it will help to keep it from getting rezoned if the crime rate has gone up.

Go photodocument the other facilities this company owns / operates - show their shitty condition. Make large blowups / posters of their condition, to display at the re-zoning hearing.
Talk to local law enforcement to get the statistics for crime uptake in the areas. Canvas the neighbors of the other complexes. Canvas the neighbors of the NEW location, make sure they know what is up and will attend the hearing in protest. STUFF the rezoning hearing with Opposers.

And find out who the political opposition is of the people on the rezoning board, and see if there is any help there.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:34:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
If you want the luxury of solitude and quite in your domocile.

Step up to the plate, buy a 50 acre parcel and build in the middle of it.

Saying what someone else should do with their property is like others telling you what guns you can and can't have.





+1


Time to suck it up and move on!....



Or you could put in a stop and rob (7-11/AMPM) and make money off the robbery attempts..
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:08:22 AM EST
Run for city council.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:14:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 9:15:25 AM EST by chrome1]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

If they own the land, its thiers to do with as they wish.




That would be nice if it were true , but zoning laws and the boards that control them
have the final say . Not to even mention , Environmental Impact studies , Health dept codes ,
Wetland protection , Water , sewage , storm water control , and traffic studies .

Very few places in the country don't have any or all of these , with some places having even more .
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:21:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 9:23:04 AM EST by nightstalker]
There is supply and demand even in housing. If the zoning permits it (high-density) and there is a strong market for it then you might have to live with it. In the long run it is likely a good thing for the city as a whole. Not everyone can be (or wants to be) a home owner. Still they need a place to live if they work locally. The alternative is apartments sixty miles away, a new freeway to carry their autos, pollution, wasted time commuting, money spent away from where it is earned, less sense of community (read crime) etc. If we had a little more latitude to build according to need we might be able to relieve some of the congestion on freeways or delay for years the need to widen them or even build them. Our NIMBYISM can have far ranging and adverse effects that are unintended.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:36:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By hanau:
got to the hearing and voice your concern.maybe do some some research on the increase in crime before and after some of there other complex where built maybe it will help to keep it from getting rezoned if the crime rate has gone up.

Go photodocument the other facilities this company owns / operates - show their shitty condition. Make large blowups / posters of their condition, to display at the re-zoning hearing.
Talk to local law enforcement to get the statistics for crime uptake in the areas. Canvas the neighbors of the other complexes. Canvas the neighbors of the NEW location, make sure they know what is up and will attend the hearing in protest. STUFF the rezoning hearing with Opposers.

And find out who the political opposition is of the people on the rezoning board, and see if there is any help there.



The only thing that I would add to the above is to show up in numbers. One homeowner isn't going to mean squat to them. Many homeowners showing up will mean more.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:57:22 AM EST
Why not talk to these developers (preferably with a group of homeowners) and see what kind of complex they're planning on building before you go nuts trying to stop them? Not all apartment complexes are on the fast path to section 8, after all. How much are they planning on charging for rent? Who are they marketing to? Are they going to do careful background checks and be aggressive about throwing out criminals?

I've lived in and visited several nice, quiet apartment complexes. Your neighborhood isn't necessarily going to hell.
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