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Posted: 4/17/2006 7:27:43 AM EST


news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060417/ap_on_fe_st/skipping_jury_duty

Skip Jury Duty, and Go Straight to Jail

Mon Apr 17, 7:27 AM ET

PONTIAC, Mich. - A 24-year-old college student was ordered to spend the weekend in jail after skipping out on jury duty.

Ilya Kluzner, a student at the University of Michigan-Dearborn, must also write a five-page essay on the historical perspective of the American dream and why jury duty is crucial, under the sentence imposed by Oakland County Circuit Judge Fred Mester.

Mester found Kluzner in criminal contempt Thursday after he missed the second day of a two-day drug possession trial.

"He just felt like he was skipping class," Assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Jeffrey Kaelin said.

The student initially faced up to 30 days in jail. His lawyer asked for leniency and his mother apologized for her son's behavior.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:41:25 AM EST
Many schools don't have policies forcing professors to excuse absences for court appearances, allowing them to give failing grades for missed exams or quizzes.

My old school had no policy for military reserve duty either... so some professors could give zeros on quizzes when I was off training. Funny enough, there was a policy forcing them to allow make-up work for school athletic events, but not for national defense.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:43:29 AM EST
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:45:07 AM EST
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:45:07 AM EST
"Kids with heads full of mush." - Rush Limbaugh
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:47:28 AM EST
i got jury duty all next week :(
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:47:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



It's called family.
They take up for one another.
She didn't as far as I know say her son didn't do anything wrong, she apologized to the court on her sons behalf who probably was not in court when that happened.

Whats the matter , you never made an error in judgement or had any one stick up for you?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:48:41 AM EST
whata dumbass...college has sure taught him alot.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:49:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



It's called family.
They take up for one another.
She didn't as far as I know say her son didn't do anything wrong, she apologized to the court on her sons behalf who probably was not in court when that happened.

Whats the matter , you never made an error in judgement or had any one stick up for you?



When I was 24 years old and an adult, I made sure I didn't get in a position where Mummy had to apologize for me.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:51:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By jrzy:
Whats the matter , you never made an error in judgement or had any one stick up for you?



Oh yeah.

When I was 10.

24?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:51:28 AM EST
the two times I was called on for jury duty (one federal, the other was around here) I wrote a nice letter and mailed it to the clerk.

I was excused from serving due to being a college student at the time.

Why this kid didn't do the same is beyond me...
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:51:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



It's called family.
They take up for one another.
She didn't as far as I know say her son didn't do anything wrong, she apologized to the court on her sons behalf who probably was not in court when that happened.

Whats the matter , you never made an error in judgement or had any one stick up for you?



I'll admit that the article is short and fairly lacking in information, but nowhere in there did they state the student expressed any regret for his mistakes. A better thing to have written about you would be:


His lawyer asked for leniency and he apologized for his behavior.


Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:53:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ring:
i got jury duty all next week :(



I wish.

Last time I was in the jury pool for the feds my number never came up. And too bad I get full pay the whole time I'm out.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:54:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:
the two times I was called on for jury duty (one federal, the other was around here) I wrote a nice letter and mailed it to the clerk.

I was excused from serving due to being a college student at the time.

Why this kid didn't do the same is beyond me...



Same here thought they only deferred it until winter break. What a dumbass.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:56:09 AM EST
weekend in jail and essay seems an appropriate punishment. its not like he got off with just a mothers apology.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:03:06 AM EST
I wish that I could serve jury duty. I usually don't make it past, "Please state your occupation."
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:03:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:
the two times I was called on for jury duty (one federal, the other was around here) I wrote a nice letter and mailed it to the clerk.

I was excused from serving due to being a college student at the time.

Why this kid didn't do the same is beyond me...



They told me, that's nice kid, exams end May 16. Show up here May 17th.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:34:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By torstin:
weekend in jail and essay seems an appropriate punishment. its not like he got off with just a mothers apology.


But he could still have an arrest record unless the judge will expunge later it, and will have to explain it if he gets a chance. Many times employers will just reject you because you have an arrest record and not give you a chance to explain what happened. Not a good thing.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:36:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



Yeah, what a fucking mama's boy.

I WISH I could be on jury duty.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:58:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



Yeah, what a fucking mama's boy.

I WISH I could be on jury duty.



Why? To be exposed to the dregs of society and listen to them whine (the defendant(s)), not the jurors, for the most part.

C'mon, interesting cases are few and far between. You won't be sitting in on People vs OJ. You'll be hearing about how one dipship with a rap sheet is suing his dipshit brother because they didn't split the proceeds from their grocery store as they verbally agreed to 12 years ago. You'll hear about how their case wound through the court system for five years with no evidence from either side. You'll listen to their even more dipshit lawyers ( the only kind who would take such a shitty case) make such crappy arguments I wanted to scream "objection on the basis of stupidity!". It was no fun. At least it was only 2 days. I narrowly got rejected for a malpractice case that could have taken weeks.

Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:12:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:14:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.



Because the Judge with his J.D. is much better than a gas attendant at determining medical malpractice? Very elitist of you.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:14:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
It's cool though, because this 24 year old got his mom to appoligize for him.



Yeah, what a fucking mama's boy.

I WISH I could be on jury duty.



Why? To be exposed to the dregs of society and listen to them whine (the defendant(s)), not the jurors, for the most part.

C'mon, interesting cases are few and far between. You won't be sitting in on People vs OJ. You'll be hearing about how one dipship with a rap sheet is suing his dipshit brother because they didn't split the proceeds from their grocery store as they verbally agreed to 12 years ago. You'll hear about how their case wound through the court system for five years with no evidence from either side. You'll listen to their even more dipshit lawyers ( the only kind who would take such a shitty case) make such crappy arguments I wanted to scream "objection on the basis of stupidity!". It was no fun. At least it was only 2 days. I narrowly got rejected for a malpractice case that could have taken weeks.




I've never been on a jury, but one day I'll find out what it's like, I am sure.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:16:15 AM EST
Ilya Kluzner?

WTF?

Has to be an import.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:17:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 11:18:43 AM EST by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.



Because the Judge with his J.D. is much better than a gas attendant at determining medical malpractice? Very elitist of you.



No, but a jury full of medical doctors would be. I think that based upon your crime, a true jury of your peers could be used to properly evaluate your alleged "crime".

EDIT: also, I don't think that those below a certain income level should be allowed to vote: if you suck the government's teet for cash and benefits, you shouldn't have a right to vote in favor of extending those benefits.

voting should be for those who actually have an education and an investment in the continued success of this country and the society we live in.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:22:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.



Because the Judge with his J.D. is much better than a gas attendant at determining medical malpractice? Very elitist of you.



No, but a jury full of medical doctors would be. I think that based upon your crime, a true jury of your peers could be used to properly evaluate your alleged "crime".

EDIT: also, I don't think that those below a certain income level should be allowed to vote: if you suck the government's teet for cash and benefits, you shouldn't have a right to vote in favor of extending those benefits.

voting should be for those who actually have an education and an investment in the continued success of this country and the society we live in.



Please ignore the
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:25:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.



Because the Judge with his J.D. is much better than a gas attendant at determining medical malpractice? Very elitist of you.



No, but a jury full of medical doctors would be. I think that based upon your crime, a true jury of your peers could be used to properly evaluate your alleged "crime".

EDIT: also, I don't think that those below a certain income level should be allowed to vote: if you suck the government's teet for cash and benefits, you shouldn't have a right to vote in favor of extending those benefits.

voting should be for those who actually have an education and an investment in the continued success of this country and the society we live in.



Please ignore the



Yeah, I am a troll because I believe in the continued success of this country which includes restricting the poor from voting, kicking illegal immigrants out of this country, and using an actually worthwhile justice system instead of the broken one we have.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:26:24 AM EST
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:27:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



Well I better go register www.10-22_and_a_38.com quick.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:32:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:35:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Uh...huh...

So by your standards 9-11 didn't happen because this esteemed Professor of Physics with his PhD says so.
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:35:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:37:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 11:38:54 AM EST by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Uh...huh...

So by your standards 9-11 didn't happen because this esteemed Professor of Physics with his PhD says so.
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html



However, many other PhDs have knocked him out with actual evidence. A common person does not know how to interpret evidence, merely how to swallow the B.S. that lawyers spout; a well educated person might make the same mistake, but it will be from interpreting the evidence differently, not accepting the B.S. hyperbolae that the lawyers will say.

EDIT: BTW, that Professor is technically valid in his interpretations from the limited amount of evidence that he has observed on the system, and technically, the WTC towers if they were constructed properly would not have come down; however, we know that a lot of corners are cut in the construction of buildings, in the WTC's case it was cutting steps on applying flame retardants on the steel support beams, along with a crappy design overall for the load-bearing struts.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:38:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Uh...huh...

So by your standards 9-11 didn't happen because this esteemed Professor of Physics with his PhD says so.
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html



However, many other PhDs have knocked him out with actual evidence. A common person does not know how to interpret evidence, merely how to swallow the B.S. that lawyers spout; a well educated person might make the same mistake, but it will be from interpreting the evidence differently, not accepting the B.S. hyperbolae that the lawyers will say.



But the glove didn't fit. They had no choice.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:39:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Uh...huh...

So by your standards 9-11 didn't happen because this esteemed Professor of Physics with his PhD says so.
www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html



However, many other PhDs have knocked him out with actual evidence. A common person does not know how to interpret evidence, merely how to swallow the B.S. that lawyers spout; a well educated person might make the same mistake, but it will be from interpreting the evidence differently, not accepting the B.S. hyperbolae that the lawyers will say.



But the glove didn't fit. They had no choice.



Leather shrinks after exposure to moisture... but those people didn't know that
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:47:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
However, many other PhDs have knocked him out with actual evidence. A common person does not know how to interpret evidence, merely how to swallow the B.S. that lawyers spout; a well educated person might make the same mistake, but it will be from interpreting the evidence differently, not accepting the B.S. hyperbolae that the lawyers will say.

EDIT: BTW, that Professor is technically valid in his interpretations from the limited amount of evidence that he has observed on the system, and technically, the WTC towers if they were constructed properly would not have come down; however, we know that a lot of corners are cut in the construction of buildings, in the WTC's case it was cutting steps on applying flame retardants on the steel support beams, along with a crappy design overall for the load-bearing struts.



A well educated person can spew better BS and hide behind his degree. He certainly won your gullible ass. The design was not "crappy" nor were corners cut. It was just not designed for the eventuality of a 767 hitting it. That's like claiming the Humvee is a shitty jeep because it can't resist a 2000lb IED. Now you're going to claim that we should blame the contractors for the building falling down?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:51:42 AM EST
I'm going to find another "gunner" that is in pre-med, and have him call you an idiot.

Your assertions are cheesy. Government cheesy?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:54:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 11:57:30 AM EST by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
However, many other PhDs have knocked him out with actual evidence. A common person does not know how to interpret evidence, merely how to swallow the B.S. that lawyers spout; a well educated person might make the same mistake, but it will be from interpreting the evidence differently, not accepting the B.S. hyperbolae that the lawyers will say.

EDIT: BTW, that Professor is technically valid in his interpretations from the limited amount of evidence that he has observed on the system, and technically, the WTC towers if they were constructed properly would not have come down; however, we know that a lot of corners are cut in the construction of buildings, in the WTC's case it was cutting steps on applying flame retardants on the steel support beams, along with a crappy design overall for the load-bearing struts.



A well educated person can spew better BS and hide behind his degree. He certainly won your gullible ass. The design was not "crappy" nor were corners cut. It was just not designed for the eventuality of a 767 hitting it. That's like claiming the Humvee is a shitty jeep because it can't resist a 2000lb IED. Now you're going to claim that we should blame the contractors for the building falling down?



Well, obviously, if the steel was melting below the point that it should have for the quality of steel that they were supposed to use in the construction, which it did... it is obvious that someone caught corners. I have failed to see any structural engineers that have actually explained the apparent fact that a structure that was not in any way symetrically damaged fell on its own footprint, something that would take a miracle of God to actually happen.

back to the topic: I just believe that there are two groups of people in society, those that deserve the freedoms they are supposed to have, and those that don't. If you are a fatass, dorito eating, couch potato, I don't think that you should be allowed to vote/get welfare/etc.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:05:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 12:05:50 PM EST by 53vortec]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Hate to break it to you, son, but I know a lot of 18 and 19 year olds, many with GED's, kicking around the mid-east and southwest asia who will be much "better" men than you can ever aspire to be.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:06:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By torstin:
weekend in jail and essay seems an appropriate punishment. its not like he got off with just a mothers apology.


But he could still have an arrest record unless the judge will expunge later it, and will have to explain it if he gets a chance. Many times employers will just reject you because you have an arrest record and not give you a chance to explain what happened. Not a good thing.


Near as I can remember the job applications I've filled out only ask about felony convictions. Not arrests and not misdemeanor convictions. The only exception to that is specific industry-related stuff (if you've ever been investigated by NASD for securities violations, if you've ever been the target of a cease-and-desist order by the Attorney General for illegal sales practices, etc. -- for the record, the answer in my case was "no").
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:13:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Hate to break it to you, son, but I know a lot of 18 and 19 year olds, many with GED's, kicking around the mid-east and southwest asia who will be much "better" men than you can ever aspire to be.



"better" men has nothing to do with it, I don't want some jarhead evaluating whether or not I was negligent in a complex surgery that had a 95% chance of mortalitiy by its very nature when he:

1) more than likely knows nothing about the procedure or medicine in general.
2) has been watching too many TV shows to know how the medical system actually works.

Yes, they may be "better" in the sense of being willing to risk their lives for a cause and in killing people, but they definitely aren't qualified to judge a surgeon on his handiwork, a lawyer on his ethics, or a business on environmental violations.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:15:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:
the two times I was called on for jury duty (one federal, the other was around here) I wrote a nice letter and mailed it to the clerk.

I was excused from serving due to being a college student at the time.

Why this kid didn't do the same is beyond me...


Many jurisdictions have implemented "no excuse" policies. Both NYC (where I now live) and Berkshire County, MA (where I went to school) have policies that allowed for short-term deferments (some number of months) but absolutely no one is excused from service, unless you are legitimately no longer a resident. The only way to get out of it in college was if you got called late enough Senior year that you could defer it until after graduation (and, obviously, you were leaving the area after graduation). They were flexible enough with the timing of deferments that no one I knew ever had to serve during exams or anything like that.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:26:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 12:32:00 PM EST by 53vortec]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Good one...

Personally, I only think that people that actually own a genuine Colt AR should be allowed to post at arfcom.



difference is that other AR brands are just as good if not better than Colt; the common person is never better than those with an advanced degree under their belt; however, they are better than those with just a bachelors in liberal arts.



Hate to break it to you, son, but I know a lot of 18 and 19 year olds, many with GED's, kicking around the mid-east and southwest asia who will be much "better" men than you can ever aspire to be.



"better" men has nothing to do with it, I don't want some jarhead evaluating whether or not I was negligent in a complex surgery that had a 95% chance of mortalitiy by its very nature when he:

1) more than likely knows nothing about the procedure or medicine in general.
2) has been watching too many TV shows to know how the medical system actually works.

Yes, they may be "better" in the sense of being willing to risk their lives for a cause and in killing people, but they definitely aren't qualified to judge a surgeon on his handiwork, a lawyer on his ethics, or a business on environmental violations.



Well then perhaps you should begin to pay a bit more attention in English class. You're statement, highlighted above in red, is either a demonstration of your gross lack of skill at written communication, or a Freudian slip of your true elitist attitude.

As for your statements about the "common people" judging a medical case, do you understand how the jury trial system actually works? They aren't simply marched in a court room and told told "hey, this guy says this guy did this - what do y'all think?" They are given expert testimony and specific instructions by a judge. If you think that is a superior system to one where judges - either elected or appointed, who will most likely have political affiliations and obligations to members of the community - decide cases, then you are sadly mistaken.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:27:30 PM EST
why didn't he just get a deferment? if you're a student, you can postpone it to your vacation time. They may never call you up when summer break rolls around....
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:36:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:
the two times I was called on for jury duty (one federal, the other was around here) I wrote a nice letter and mailed it to the clerk.

I was excused from serving due to being a college student at the time.

Why this kid didn't do the same is beyond me...


Same here. This kid didn't take care of his responsibilities as a citizen. He got what he deserved.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 2:35:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Well then perhaps you should begin to pay a bit more attention in English class. You're statement, highlighted above in red, is either a demonstration of your gross lack of skill at written communication, or a Freudian slip of your true elitist attitude.



A definite Freudian slip.



As for your statements about the "common people" judging a medical case, do you understand how the jury trial system actually works? They aren't simply marched in a court room and told told "hey, this guy says this guy did this - what do y'all think?" They are given expert testimony and specific instructions by a judge. If you think that is a superior system to one where judges - either elected or appointed, who will most likely have political affiliations and obligations to members of the community - decide cases, then you are sadly mistaken.



But the common people of this nation do not have the education to actually "disregard" testimony, "decipher" evidence, and ultimately "find beyond a reasonable doubt someone is guilty". You are presuming that people are going to follow the judges lead, which in most cases they don't. How many cases have we seen where clearly guilty people get off the hook, and clearly innocent people get sent to prison despite what people that are experts in the fields say about the evidence. Being educated doesn't prevent people from being assholes and holding their own opinion above everyone elses, including other experts; however, it does set them a notch above the mentally challenged who live their entire lives with the sole goal of having sex, eating junk food, and blaming others for their problems.

A Jury system presumes that each and every person involved is a responsible adult with the proper faculties and objective mindset to come to a proper conclusion based upon the evidence; until we can actually get 12 people into that room that share those attributes, I feel that the jury system is inherently flawed and should be removed as the means of determining guilt.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 2:44:04 PM EST
clueless. spoiled. dipshit. probably more money than sense. "felt like I was skipping class" they must do that often. hope they like the baloney sandwich in county.......hope they're a vegetarian.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:05:16 PM EST
24? He should have been finished with college two years ago.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:06:40 PM EST
I think the jury system would be better if the Judges were prevented from lying and saying jury nullification is illegal.

As early as aug last year the supreme court said it was.

Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:08:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
24? He should have been finished with college two years ago.



I had a friend who served 2 enlistments with Marines. He didn't start college til 24. What's your point?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:15:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By warlord:
We are truely spoiled in the USofA.
People often don't take their responsibilities to democracy very seriously. The "trial by jury" is a cornerstone of our democratic way of life. People often say I that trial by jury is such a pain in the neck, my question what else would want in place of trial by Jury, how about "trial by charman," or "trial by fire." Here in Calif judges, doctors used to be excused from jury service, but not anymore. The only people who are excused are the people who don't have a good command of English and law enforcement.



Fuck the jury based system in the first place. No one is actually evaluated by their peers(since when can a gas station attendant tell what is medical malpractice or what is really fraud), and the system is usually rigged towards one outcome anyway(OJ Simpson case, the Peterson case,etc.); give me a tribunal of judges.



Because the Judge with his J.D. is much better than a gas attendant at determining medical malpractice? Very elitist of you.



No, but a jury full of medical doctors would be. I think that based upon your crime, a true jury of your peers could be used to properly evaluate your alleged "crime".

EDIT: also, I don't think that those below a certain income level should be allowed to vote: if you suck the government's teet for cash and benefits, you shouldn't have a right to vote in favor of extending those benefits.

voting should be for those who actually have an education and an investment in the continued success of this country and the society we live in.



Please ignore the



Yeah, I am a troll because I believe in the continued success of this country which includes restricting the poor from voting, kicking illegal immigrants out of this country, and using an actually worthwhile justice system instead of the broken one we have.




I come from one of THE richest counties in the country, per capita.....



And I know more people of 'higher earnings' that are dumber than dog snot.


You sir, are a tool.


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