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Posted: 6/18/2011 8:26:32 PM EDT
http://www.click2houston.com/news/28271978/detail.html
HOUSTON –– The election that overturned Houston's red-light cameras was invalid, a federal judge ruled Friday.



U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes said that the issue as presented on the November ballot violated Houston's city charter covering the repeal of an ordinance.



Fifty-three percent voted against Proposition 3 in the Nov. 2 election. The measure forced the city to stop issuing tickets for those caught by the red-light cameras.



Houston had installed more than 70 cameras at intersections that were deemed "dangerous."



The city of Houston went to court, claiming it had the right to keep the cameras...




Citizens vote, and Legislative and Executive branches turn to the Judicial branch to keep the revenue-generating plebes in line.



Remember to vote!
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:28:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:33:45 PM EDT
Strange,  Los Angeles is about to pull all RLC as they found they are Costing the city money. The private co. that installed and maintains them is the one who is getting most of the $.







Roy
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:35:00 PM EDT
We've got similar things going on like that in my town. Voters approve or deny certain things and our "leaders" basically ignore the results.

Of course, like a good boy I am keeping my mouth shut about it all.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:41:50 PM EDT
Government has the power now not the people. We stop being a government for the people by the people a long time ago.  You're only as free as government allows you to be.  You're only free until government decides you shouldn't be.  Keep your head down and don't draw attention to yourself from the man.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:50:08 PM EDT
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:52:17 PM EDT




Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:

Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.



Just sayin'.


Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.  

Link Posted: 6/18/2011 8:53:41 PM EDT

Somewhere along the way we started working for the government instead of the other way around.  That is just 11 different kinds of fucked up.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 9:02:23 PM EDT






We had a referendum thrown out a few years ago because apparently the voters don't have the 'power' to regulate taxes.





Localized tyranny
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 9:10:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2011 9:12:44 PM EDT by DragoMuseveni]


I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand you have elected officials ignoring what the people want, on the other hand you have mob rule; both are a threat to liberty.



Edit: Why is a Federal Judge ruling on a City/State issue?
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 9:10:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By packinheavy:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.  




that's what cherrie pickers are for.




Roy
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 9:13:22 PM EDT
If you don't like it, vote to change it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 9:14:18 PM EDT
they did that with a bond for a new courthouse

bond vote failed

so they just broke the courthouse into 3 projects all under the  $$$$ threshold to hold a public viote
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 10:17:41 PM EDT
We have them here. Bunch of bullshit if you ask me.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 10:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 10:59:38 AM EDT by brass]
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 11:37:03 PM EDT
I'm pissed.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 11:40:08 PM EDT
Our local government does that sort
of thing on a regular basis.  It really doesn't
matter if you vote them out, because the
replacements do the same, and the old
ones get onto the ballot the next year.

They will just keep putting measures on the
ballots until they get voted in, or simply ignore
the process entirely
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 11:45:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 11:47:34 PM EDT
Possibly the only viable solution is to boycott the stores in the areas surrounding the cameras...let the corporate entities force their will upon the city.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:03:18 AM EDT
Why do those folks get reelected?





I guess the red light camera thing isn't that big an issue.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:05:18 AM EDT
Governments do not have Rights. People have Rights. Governments have Powers that are given to them by the People.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:38:23 AM EDT




Originally Posted By novaDAK:

Governments do not have Rights. People have Rights. Governments have Powers that are given to them by the People.  or taken from them by force.




Added a bit.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 1:28:32 AM EDT
Are we a true democracy or a representative republic?
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 6:22:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gunnut284:
Are we a true democracy or a representative republic?


Neither, it seems.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 6:55:31 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Zam18th:








We had a referendum thrown out a few years ago because apparently the voters don't have the 'power' to regulate taxes.





Localized tyranny


They wanted a 1 cent sales tax increase here, we voted it down. They added a 5 cent

gas tax instead. We had no say in that.



 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 6:57:02 AM EDT



Originally Posted By anothergene:

Nobody has a BB gun?

Paintball gun?





 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 6:58:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 6:58:43 AM EDT by ultramagbrion]
Expect shit like this to become more common , everywhere .

Next step : Cartridge Box .
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:02:27 AM EDT

Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:02:47 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Cromlech:





Originally Posted By anothergene:

Nobody has a BB gun?

Paintball gun?



 


Frangible ammo?



 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:03:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ultramagbrion:
Expect shit like this to become more common , everywhere .

Next step : Cartridge Box .


yep
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:06:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rdsr:
Originally Posted By packinheavy:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.  




that's what cherrie pickers are for.




Roy


no, thats what supressed .22s are for
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:07:50 AM EDT
Red light cameras are illegal in Michigan. That is how the fight should be fought, at the state level, not at the local level.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:09:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tomislav:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/28271978/detail.html


HOUSTON –– The election that overturned Houston's red-light cameras was invalid, a federal judge ruled Friday.

U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes said that the issue as presented on the November ballot violated Houston's city charter covering the repeal of an ordinance.


Fifty-three percent voted against Proposition 3 in the Nov. 2 election. The measure forced the city to stop issuing tickets for those caught by the red-light cameras.


Houston had installed more than 70 cameras at intersections that were deemed "dangerous."


The city of Houston went to court, claiming it had the right to keep the cameras...


Citizens vote, and Legislative and Executive branches turn to the Judicial branch to keep the revenue-generating plebes in line.

Remember to vote!


The ballot box has failed for the last 100 years. Every 2-3 election cycles we vote out one party and in the other and in the end get the exact same thing, crooked polititions who care nothing about this country or it's people only about getting rich and taking more and more freedom and power from the people. Things will never change without blood shed.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:13:49 AM EDT
land of the fee and the home of the slave.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:15:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 7:16:20 AM EDT by Chris0013]
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

The city charter is like a mini constitution that deals with the local gov.  
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:16:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people



Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:18:40 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Chris0013:


Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?



The city charter is like a mini constitution that deals with the local gov.  

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people





Right to bear arms is protected by the constitution. Red light cameras aren't.



 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:19:07 AM EDT



Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:


Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.



Just sayin'.


In Texas (or the rest of the South) it would be gunfire not tires.

Take note of the highway signs with bullet holes in them.



 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:20:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people



Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.


I am speaking to the legislative rules in the city charter....they provide for repealing an ordinance....if the popular vote is not a means allowed by the city charter the the will of the people does not mean shit in getting it repealed....other that to elect candidates who will repeal it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:23:42 AM EDT
It's all about revenue.  The way to deal with this is just don't pay the ticket.  Yes, you have to deal with the consequences.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:29:29 AM EDT
i just read your quote..sounds like they cant issue tickets, but they still want to keep the cameras up...so wat?
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:34:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 7:36:02 AM EDT by Chris0013]
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people



Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.


The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.


You either get direct democracy with will of the people or you get the rules laid out in The US Constitution / State Constitutions / City Charters.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:36:41 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Chris0013:



Originally Posted By fxntime:


Originally Posted By Chris0013:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people







Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.




The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.



People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....



Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.



Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.


City charters do not override the US Constitution.



 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:36:58 AM EDT
The city of Baytown still has the cameras, but they are only used as evidence when the police issue a ticket.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:44:37 AM EDT
The proper vote is to throw the scallywags out of office.  The elected officials serve the people and not the other way around.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:50:53 AM EDT
A town along I-95 had photo radar here is SC.  Town was mailing tickets.  State lawmakers passed a bill against the
photo radar tickets being sent in the mail.  This all happen this month.  The tickets will have to be given by popo.
The warring sign is down along I-95.  Lets see what happens.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 7:56:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Banditman:

Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people



Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.


The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.
 


The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed.  IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.

Link Posted: 6/19/2011 8:06:03 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Chris0013:



Originally Posted By fxntime:


Originally Posted By Chris0013:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people







Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.




The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.



People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....



Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.



Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.





You either get direct democracy with will of the people or you get the rules laid out in The US Constitution / State Constitutions / City Charters.


If it was against the city charter how did it get on the ballot in the November election to begin with? Sounds like there were some issues with how the petitioners worded the initiative or got it on the ballot to begin with. The proper procedure should be clearly defined and the issue voted on again. Since the initiative got on the ballot the last election we can assume the city charter has some sort of ballot initiative process. Clearly define the rules, vote again, and honor the outcome.



This isn't about safety or traffic, it's about money, let the people that American Traffic Solutions makes millions of off decide if they want to give that company their money or not. The idea of a private companies making hundreds of millions of dollars off of local and state traffic violations doesn't sit very well with me for some reason.

 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 8:06:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 8:07:52 AM EDT by fxntime]
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Originally Posted By Banditman:

Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people



Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.


The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.
 


The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed.  IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.



It would seem if that was not a legit way to over ride the law, it would have been challenged before it ever made it to the voters. To make it into the voting booth, it would have to have been allowed as a legally valid repeal of an existing ordinance.

I see someone was thinking the same thing I was.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 8:07:03 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Chris0013:



Originally Posted By Banditman:




Originally Posted By Chris0013:


Originally Posted By fxntime:


Originally Posted By Chris0013:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people







Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.




The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.



People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....



Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not?  The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for  the rules the city is run by.  Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.



Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.


City charters do not override the US Constitution.

 




The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed.  IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.






How did it get on the ballot then if it's not a valid method for repealing an ordinance?





 
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 8:09:04 AM EDT




Originally Posted By rdsr:



Originally Posted By packinheavy:





Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:

Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.



Just sayin'.


Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.


that's what cherrie pickers are for.
Roy




1W blue laser into the lens?
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