City of Houston nicely demonstrates the uselessness of the ballot box.

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Posted: 6/18/2011 8:26:32 PM EDT

http://www.click2houston.com/news/28271978/detail.html

HOUSTON –– The election that overturned Houston's red-light cameras was invalid, a federal judge ruled Friday.

U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes said that the issue as presented on the November ballot violated Houston's city charter covering the repeal of an ordinance.

Fifty-three percent voted against Proposition 3 in the Nov. 2 election. The measure forced the city to stop issuing tickets for those caught by the red-light cameras.

Houston had installed more than 70 cameras at intersections that were deemed "dangerous."

The city of Houston went to court, claiming it had the right to keep the cameras...

Citizens vote, and Legislative and Executive branches turn to the Judicial branch to keep the revenue-generating plebes in line.

Remember to vote!

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:28:23 PM EDT

[#1]

Very sad story.

It happens in Washington state also.

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:33:45 PM EDT

[#2]

Strange, Los Angeles is about to pull all RLC as they found they are Costing the city money. The private co. that installed and maintains them is the one who is getting most of the $.

Roy

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:35:00 PM EDT

[#3]

We've got similar things going on like that in my town. Voters approve or deny certain things and our "leaders" basically ignore the results.

Of course, like a good boy I am keeping my mouth shut about it all.

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:41:50 PM EDT

[#4]

Government has the power now not the people. We stop being a government for the people by the people a long time ago. You're only as free as government allows you to be. You're only free until government decides you shouldn't be. Keep your head down and don't draw attention to yourself from the man.

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:50:08 PM EDT

[#5]

Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:52:17 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.

Posted: 6/18/2011 8:53:41 PM EDT

[#7]

Somewhere along the way we started working for the government instead of the other way around. That is just 11 different kinds of fucked up.

Posted: 6/18/2011 9:02:23 PM EDT

[#8]

We had a referendum thrown out a few years ago because apparently the voters don't have the 'power' to regulate taxes.

Localized tyranny

Posted: 6/18/2011 9:10:35 PM EDT

[#9]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand you have elected officials ignoring what the people want, on the other hand you have mob rule; both are a threat to liberty.

Edit: Why is a Federal Judge ruling on a City/State issue?

Posted: 6/18/2011 9:10:49 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.

that's what cherrie pickers are for.

Roy

Posted: 6/18/2011 9:13:22 PM EDT

[#11]

If you don't like it, vote to change it.

Posted: 6/18/2011 9:14:18 PM EDT

[#12]

they did that with a bond for a new courthouse

bond vote failed

so they just broke the courthouse into 3 projects all under the $$$$ threshold to hold a public viote

Posted: 6/18/2011 10:17:41 PM EDT

[#13]

We have them here. Bunch of bullshit if you ask me.

Posted: 6/18/2011 10:39:01 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
We've got similar things going on like that in my town. Voters approve or deny certain things and our "leaders" basically ignore the results.

Of course, like a good boy I am keeping my mouth shut about it all.

Nevermind...

Posted: 6/18/2011 11:37:03 PM EDT

[#15]

I'm pissed.

Posted: 6/18/2011 11:40:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Our local government does that sort
of thing on a regular basis. It really doesn't
matter if you vote them out, because the
replacements do the same, and the old
ones get onto the ballot the next year.

They will just keep putting measures on the
ballots until they get voted in, or simply ignore
the process entirely

Posted: 6/18/2011 11:45:25 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.

that's what cherrie pickers are for.

Nobody has a BB gun?

Posted: 6/18/2011 11:47:34 PM EDT

[#18]

Possibly the only viable solution is to boycott the stores in the areas surrounding the cameras...let the corporate entities force their will upon the city.

Posted: 6/19/2011 12:03:18 AM EDT

[#19]

Why do those folks get reelected?

I guess the red light camera thing isn't that big an issue.

Posted: 6/19/2011 12:05:18 AM EDT

[#20]

Governments do not have Rights. People have Rights. Governments have Powers that are given to them by the People.

Posted: 6/19/2011 12:38:23 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Governments do not have Rights. People have Rights. Governments have Powers that are given to them by the People. or taken from them by force.

Added a bit.

Posted: 6/19/2011 1:28:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Are we a true democracy or a representative republic?

Posted: 6/19/2011 6:22:37 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Are we a true democracy or a representative republic?

Neither, it seems.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/19/2011 6:55:31 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

We had a referendum thrown out a few years ago because apparently the voters don't have the 'power' to regulate taxes.

Localized tyranny

They wanted a 1 cent sales tax increase here, we voted it down. They added a 5 cent

gas tax instead. We had no say in that.

Posted: 6/19/2011 6:57:02 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Nobody has a BB gun?

Paintball gun?

Posted: 6/19/2011 6:58:11 AM EDT

[#26]

Expect shit like this to become more common , everywhere .

Next step : Cartridge Box .

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:02:27 AM EDT

[#27]

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:02:47 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nobody has a BB gun?

Paintball gun?

Frangible ammo?

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:03:18 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Expect shit like this to become more common , everywhere .

Next step : Cartridge Box .

yep

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:06:26 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

Won't work here as most of the cameras are about 30 feet off of the ground.

that's what cherrie pickers are for.

Roy

no, thats what supressed .22s are for

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:07:50 AM EDT

[#31]

Red light cameras are illegal in Michigan. That is how the fight should be fought, at the state level, not at the local level.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:09:49 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/28271978/detail.html

HOUSTON –– The election that overturned Houston's red-light cameras was invalid, a federal judge ruled Friday.

U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes said that the issue as presented on the November ballot violated Houston's city charter covering the repeal of an ordinance.

Fifty-three percent voted against Proposition 3 in the Nov. 2 election. The measure forced the city to stop issuing tickets for those caught by the red-light cameras.

Houston had installed more than 70 cameras at intersections that were deemed "dangerous."

The city of Houston went to court, claiming it had the right to keep the cameras...

Citizens vote, and Legislative and Executive branches turn to the Judicial branch to keep the revenue-generating plebes in line.

Remember to vote!

The ballot box has failed for the last 100 years. Every 2-3 election cycles we vote out one party and in the other and in the end get the exact same thing, crooked polititions who care nothing about this country or it's people only about getting rich and taking more and more freedom and power from the people. Things will never change without blood shed.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:13:49 AM EDT

[#33]

land of the fee and the home of the slave.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:15:31 AM EDT

[#34]

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

The city charter is like a mini constitution that deals with the local gov.
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:16:56 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:18:40 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

The city charter is like a mini constitution that deals with the local gov.

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Right to bear arms is protected by the constitution. Red light cameras aren't.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:19:07 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Old tires, or tyres as they spell it in the UK.

Just sayin'.

In Texas (or the rest of the South) it would be gunfire not tires.

Take note of the highway signs with bullet holes in them.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:20:20 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

I am speaking to the legislative rules in the city charter....they provide for repealing an ordinance....if the popular vote is not a means allowed by the city charter the the will of the people does not mean shit in getting it repealed....other that to elect candidates who will repeal it.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:23:42 AM EDT

[#39]

It's all about revenue. The way to deal with this is just don't pay the ticket. Yes, you have to deal with the consequences.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:29:29 AM EDT

[#40]

i just read your quote..sounds like they cant issue tickets, but they still want to keep the cameras up...so wat?

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:34:33 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

You either get direct democracy with will of the people or you get the rules laid out in The US Constitution / State Constitutions / City Charters.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:36:41 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:36:58 AM EDT

[#43]

The city of Baytown still has the cameras, but they are only used as evidence when the police issue a ticket.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:44:37 AM EDT

[#44]

The proper vote is to throw the scallywags out of office. The elected officials serve the people and not the other way around.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:50:53 AM EDT

[#45]

A town along I-95 had photo radar here is SC. Town was mailing tickets. State lawmakers passed a bill against the
photo radar tickets being sent in the mail. This all happen this month. The tickets will have to be given by popo.
The warring sign is down along I-95. Lets see what happens.

Posted: 6/19/2011 7:56:41 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.

The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed. IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.

Posted: 6/19/2011 8:06:03 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

You either get direct democracy with will of the people or you get the rules laid out in The US Constitution / State Constitutions / City Charters.

If it was against the city charter how did it get on the ballot in the November election to begin with? Sounds like there were some issues with how the petitioners worded the initiative or got it on the ballot to begin with. The proper procedure should be clearly defined and the issue voted on again. Since the initiative got on the ballot the last election we can assume the city charter has some sort of ballot initiative process. Clearly define the rules, vote again, and honor the outcome.

This isn't about safety or traffic, it's about money, let the people that American Traffic Solutions makes millions of off decide if they want to give that company their money or not. The idea of a private companies making hundreds of millions of dollars off of local and state traffic violations doesn't sit very well with me for some reason.

Posted: 6/19/2011 8:06:05 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?
.
Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.

The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed. IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.

It would seem if that was not a legit way to over ride the law, it would have been challenged before it ever made it to the voters. To make it into the voting booth, it would have to have been allowed as a legally valid repeal of an existing ordinance.

I see someone was thinking the same thing I was.

Posted: 6/19/2011 8:07:03 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Here is the real question...was the vote to repeal it in line with the city charter's rules for repealing an ordinance or not?

.

Democracy is pretty much mob rule....imagine if 53% of the people in the country all voted for a law outlawing all firearms except for police and military.....ARFcom would be up in arms about the violation of their rights as opposed to it being the will of the people

Firearms are protected by the Second Amendment. Don't see one covering red light cameras though.

The point is either will of the people or established rules laid out in the city charter.

People will bring up the 2nd Amendment in The Constitution over the Will of The People.....

Issue here is do the legislative rules in the City Charter allow a popular vote to repeal an ordinance or not? The City Charter is in effect a mini constitution for the rules the city is run by. Will of The People is subordinate to the rules laid out in the City Charter.

Should the ordinance be repealed and the cameras taken down because that is what the people want....Yes.....but does the vote matter if it is not in line with the rules in the City Charter.....No.

City charters do not override the US Constitution.

The point I am making is that will of the people does not mean shit against the written government documents that lay out the rules for how laws / ordinances are passed and repealed. IF the city charter says the vote is not a valid method for repeal then it is not a valid method for repeal.

How did it get on the ballot then if it's not a valid method for repealing an ordinance?