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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:47:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:48:18 PM EST by Nozzelnut]
We've had 2 suicides involving mixed chemicals in cars in the upstate/western NY area. When mixed, the chemicals create a poison gas, killing the occupant. It's a rather effective combination.

In both incidents, the victim placed notes and warning on the outside of the vehicle, warning of the chemical cocktail, and instructions not to open the doors or windows because of the gas. The calls here initiated a full HAZMAT response. No responders were injured.

I was wondering if anyone else had seen this kind of suicide.

It just seems kind of strange to have 2 in the last week.

Be safe brothers and sisters.

NN

ETA links:
article with both



Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:54:46 PM EST
Sounds fishy to me
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:27:23 PM EST
It's true. A couple have happened in IL and I know of one up on the North Shore of the state.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:54:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 7:01:54 PM EST by E-95]
Hopefully this will not turn into a common occurrance. Hydrogen sulfide is very bad stuff guys with NIOSH IDLH (immediate danger to life or health) at 100 ppm. Here's a link to the latest ERG guide:

Emergeny Response Guide - Hydrogen Sulfide

And from the CDC:

Medical Management Guidelines for Hydrogen Sulfide


Persons exposed to hydrogen sulfide pose no serious risks of secondary contamination to personnel outside the Hot Zone. However, fatalities have occurred to rescuers entering the hot zone.

Hydrogen sulfide is a colorless, highly flammable and explosive gas produced naturally by decaying organic matter and by certain industrial processes. Hydrogen sulfide has a characteristic rotten-egg odor; however, olfactory fatigue may occur and consequently it may not provide adequate warning of hazardous concentrations.

Hydrogen sulfide is well absorbed through the lungs; cutaneous absorption is minimal. Exposure by any route can cause systemic effects.


E-95
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:15:17 PM EST
Yeah, last summer the rage was to use a hibachi to check out. This new "fad" is even worse and exceedingly dangerous for our first responders.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 2:46:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 3:00:08 AM EST by Snowleopard]
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:.......
I was wondering if anyone else had seen this kind of suicide.......


Seen it? No.

Heard about it, yes.

It was a "rather popular" method in Japan a year or so back. Even took out a popular video star, Miyuki Asao. I'll try to provide some links for that.

Okay, here's my search that shows the rash that Japan had

Japan's Fire and Disaster Management Agency may have useful data for those with official channels.

IMHO, given how it went thru Japan, I'd expect it to at least not be an uncommon event.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:08:31 AM EST
Damn, makes you really want to open the car doors of "unresponsive" people.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:14:02 AM EST
Last year around this time we were issued an advisory regarding this.

Apparently there was an incident in a California shopping center, and another one in
a Georgia state forest parking area. In both those cases, IIRC, there were warning notes left.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:41:54 AM EST
We've had a couple in the area over the last year. they are VERY dangerous to handle. Appeareantly the mixure of chemicals causes near instantaneuous loss of conscienousness followed closely by death. They are places on the internet where you can find "how to" stuff on how to do this and if I am not mistaken there has been some first responders that have been injured due to this.

J-
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:51:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:56:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 5:58:03 AM EST by Dru]
Seen it no.... Heard about it yes.... Memo went around the station a few months back about it....

Fire department guys..... I don't know what type of gas detectors you're using, if you even keep any on engines, squads,etc, or leave it all to the hazmat guys... But most multi gas detectors should already have a sensor for detecting Hydrogen Sulfide (sewer gas) I know our Phd Plus does...
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:10:47 AM EST
Haven't seen one but I did get a info warning about them a few months back. Fortunately I haven't heard of any in around here but I have been more cautious. At least they seem to have warning info in most cases.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:24:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 6:27:52 AM EST by NA_Wreckdiver]
Here ya go...

SUBJECT: Person Down in Auto/New way to commit suicide

Recently a new way to commit suicide has been discovered by mixing two chemicals that can be bought over the counter at local stores. They are Bonide – a sulfur spray used as an insecticide for fruit trees and hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. Once mixed, the chemicals produce heat and a flammable, noxious gas that causes the subject to pass out and the heart stop within minutes. The process appears to be quick and painless. Two recent cases, one in Pasadena, California and the other at Lake Allatoona in Bartow County, Georgia, involved young men in their early 20’s. Both were found locked inside their cars with the chemicals. Each left a note on the car warning anyone around of danger. The car at Lake Allatoona had been taped to prevent gas from escaping.

Does this sound like a routine call that most of us would respond to and take similar action?

It’s Sunday morning 0730 hours, you respond to a person down in auto. You locate a car in the empty parking lot of a business. The engine and med unit pull up near the vehicle and personnel see a person inside that appears to be asleep or unconscious. Wearing safety glasses and medical gloves, you walk up to the car and knock on the window.

The patient does not respond to your knock on the window, and the doors are locked.
What action will you take? Will you hurry to make patient access? Will you use a lockout tool, center punch, or halligan to make entry?

You make access, a rush of warm air comes out of the vehicle and you smell a sharp odor. You have just become a victim and have been exposed to a noxious possibly fatal gas.

What could you have done differently? You are the first-in unit. How should you respond to this type of incident?

1. Do not become complacent! Your response should be similar on every call.
2. Be well trained, know your job, do your job.
3. Start your size-up from the time a call is dispatched.
4. Establish a strong command and control the scene.
5. Don’t go rushing in.
6. Survey the scene.
7. Does the scene look routine?
8. Do you see anything unusual? (Example: A note on the window, containers
inside the vehicle and taped windows or vents).
9. Is the scene safe?
10. Wear the appropriate PPE.
11. Establish a Hot Zone.
12. Develop a plan of action and coordinate activities.
13. Call for additional resources. (Hazmat Team, PD, etc.)
14. Did PD arrive prior to FD and become contaminated requiring emergency decon and first aid?

The call listed in the first paragraph of this document started as a routine person down call. This type of incident can easily expand into a full blown Hazardous Materials Incident with a multijurisdictional response. Be aware of this new way to commit suicide and don’t become a victim. Use common sense and stay safe.

To review a newspaper article and pictures regarding the suicide in Pasadena, California, visit:
http://beaconmedianews.com/2008/08/26/23-year-old-man-commits-suicide-with-chemicals-inside-2003-vw-bug/


To review a newspaper article and pictures regarding the suicide in Barton, Georgia visit:
http://www.daily-tribune.com/index.cfm?event=news.view&id=674BB0CD-19B9-E2E2-676EC6D537211BFE



Those links seem to be dead now...
http://policelink.monster.com/topics/50107-safety-warning––-man-commits-suicide-with-chemicals-/posts
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:33:00 AM EST
Here's a related case safety bulletin from Ada, Idaho SO:

http://www.txssc.txstate.edu/media/LE/downloads/Safety%20Alerts/DetergentSuicideCase.pdf

E-95
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:14:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:16:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 11:17:33 AM EST by jjc155]
If you get one in a car, make sure you look in to see if there is a bucket inside on the seat. I think the ones in our area the chemicals were mixed in a 5 gallon bucket on the front seat, IIRC. Might be a good tip off if they are not courteous to leave a sign. A couple of this things I had read on line urged people to put up a sign with a warning, not saying that they will though.

J-
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:58:41 AM EST
We were just warned about this type of suicide earlier this week. A teletype went out to I think the whole state.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:22:04 PM EST
Wow... thanks for that information. I know our kids around here are plying a lot with chemicals and some are getting really creative. It is only a matter of time till this gets around if it has not. What a very simple, fast, and effective way to die. A very very scary thought. My first reaction if Icame across this scene would have been to break the glass. Doing that might get you killed. THANK YOU!!!!
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:54:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 12:56:44 PM EST by Nozzelnut]
For the guys that saw this type of incident a couple months ago, where did you get your info? From another agency or form of.gov email/correspondence?

Just curious. I work for a mid-sized department, these NY incidents are the first I heard of it.


Thanks

NN

eta: spelling
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:58:44 PM EST
Thanks for posting about this.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 1:37:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
For the guys that saw this type of incident a couple months ago, where did you get your info? From another agency or form of.gov email/correspondence?

Just curious. I work for a mid-sized department, these NY incidents are the first I heard of it.


Thanks

NN

eta: spelling


We got some stuff on this from a .gov briefing about 7-8 months ago. We also heard about the local ones in our monthly county wide DB meeting.

J-

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 2:10:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
For the guys that saw this type of incident a couple months ago, where did you get your info? From another agency or form of.gov email/correspondence?

Just curious. I work for a mid-sized department, these NY incidents are the first I heard of it.


Thanks

NN

eta: spelling



Internal agency briefing back in February.
Our agency is pretty good at keeping us briefed on anything we are reasonably likely to encounter.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 2:40:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nozzelnut:
For the guys that saw this type of incident a couple months ago, where did you get your info? From another agency or form of.gov email/correspondence?

Just curious. I work for a mid-sized department, these NY incidents are the first I heard of it.


Thanks

NN

eta: spelling


Actually, none of the above........I was probably doing a reoccurring media search to how porn stars die. I suppose that one is more of a personal curiosity one.....but as one might gather from my other posts, I do have something of a professional interest in various aspects of death. It's a ghoulish business (as I was thinking the other day on another focal point as I was driving up the highway)......but someone has to do it.

But A and B.

A: Such searches can be used to justify one's access to the net despite what powers that be may wish to say.

B: While I try to pass on information as I find it, despite my hostile audience, there are some pieces of information that I can't just pass on, either because of OPSEC concerns or that such might violate my own personal security.
_____________________________________________
("It's a special meeting of scientists. Each year, they meet (in secret) to share information so to diffuse international tensions."––Hawke talking about American and Soviet scientists
"The Russians would do a double back flip if they knew this was going on."––Dr. Karol Hansen, brought in to repair Airwolf for the air extraction
"So would our own government. That's why we have to get him out of there in 3 days."––Santini, (w,stte), Airwolf "Moffet's Ghost")
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:02:22 PM EST
Yeah, we had one and one of the guys on the call said he has had a couple others.
Ours were more sophisticated than what you describe but it was the same thing.
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