Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
2/29/2008 1:57:29 PM EDT
I heard about this on the radio today. It was started by the guy who owned the internet sight where th Va. Tech shooter bought his pistol.

Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.

gundebate.com



2/29/2008 2:01:00 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.



BLASPHEMY

AR15.com is the only site that is needed.
2/29/2008 2:04:05 PM EDT
[#2]
There is only one ARFCOM.  I belong to ARFCOM.
2/29/2008 3:08:00 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
I heard about this on the radio today. It was started by the guy who owned the internet sight where th Va. Tech shooter bought his pistol.

Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.

gundebate.com






This ain't gonna be too good for my blood pressure, will it?
2/29/2008 3:14:09 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I heard about this on the radio today. It was started by the guy who owned the internet sight where th Va. Tech shooter bought his pistol.

Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.

gundebate.com






This ain't gonna be too good for my blood pressure, will it?


Is ARFCOM?
2/29/2008 3:30:08 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I heard about this on the radio today. It was started by the guy who owned the internet sight where th Va. Tech shooter bought his pistol.

Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.

gundebate.com






This ain't gonna be too good for my blood pressure, will it?


Is ARFCOM?


We don't have people attacking firearm ownership here.
At least, not for long
2/29/2008 3:32:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Get a load of this tool

(mrniceguy)


What is an Assault Rifle?
2/29/2008 3:36:01 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I heard about this on the radio today. It was started by the guy who owned the internet sight where th Va. Tech shooter bought his pistol.

Looks like another site to spend huge amounts of my life on besides AR15.com.

gundebate.com






This ain't gonna be too good for my blood pressure, will it?


No. I poked around on the forum for a few minutes and I started getting that twitch in my eye.
2/29/2008 3:39:27 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:


This ain't gonna be too good for my blood pressure, will it?


No. I poked around on the forum for a few minutes and I started getting that twitch in my eye.


The funny thing, is they get good and fucking owned, and then they just move on to some other thread... rinse, repeat. They get good and fucking owned again. Rinse, repeat, next thread.

I think they ran outta threads
2/29/2008 6:23:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I just wtfpwned them on "assualt weapons" and self-defense.  Observe.


One of the unfortunate aspects of the gun debate is how much misinformation exists surrounding the topic, mostly because most so few people –and especially those opposed to guns – have any actual experience with firearms.  Most people live in cities, and unless they have an interest in the shooting sports are unlikely to encounter firearms other than in movies, which are horribly inaccurate.  

The myth that “assault weapons” are not useful for self-defense is, in my opinion, one of the most damaging pieces of misinformation.  In point of fact, when one examines the evidence closely one finds that they are on of the best (if the best) options for self-defense, which is why police officers, security personnel, and others who professionally defend themselves and other almost exclusively rely upon weapons such as the AR-15.  

To begin with, a little background on what an “assault weapon” actually is.  The term itself has no meaning outside the now-defunct Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.  It is a play (likely a deliberate one) on the term “assault rifle,” which describes a class of military rifles developed at the end of WWII.  The key technical distinction relevant to this debate is automatic v. semi-automatic.  A true military assault rifle, such as an M-16, is capable of automatic fire, meaning that when the trigger is pulled more than one round is fired at a time, usually either a continuous stream or a 3 round burst.  In common parlance, this is a machine gun.  A semi-automatic, in contrast, only fires one round each time the trigger is pulled, but automatically loads the next round into the chamber so that the gun is ready to be fired again.  For all practical purposes, a semi-automatic fires as fast as a revolver, one round each time the trigger is pulled.  An “assault weapon” is simply a group of semi-automatics designed for self-defense which were banned by the AWB of 1994.

Legally, automatics and semi-automatics are governed by an entirely different set of laws.  Fully automatic weapons were banned in 1934 under the National Firearms Act, with a few exceptions for military, police, collectors and others willing to go through extensive background checks equivalent to what an entering FBI or high level government official would endure.  Semi-automatics have been available since the end of the 1800s with certain exceptions such as the AWB of 1994 (which banned certain limited types) and the importation ban of 1986 (which banned certain types of foreign-manufactured semi-automatics).  

Self-Defense

Political rhetoric aside, a gun is a very simply machine.  It is designed to throw a projectile down range accurately and reliabely.  Like any other kind of machine, there are certain trade-offs that one must choose between when designing any firearm.  Thus, for instance with cars you use one type of design for a truck to haul things, and another for a sports car to go fast.  The “assault weapon,” and in particular the AR-15 (a semi-automatic version of the M-16) is simply a semi-automatic weapon with the right set of trade-offs designed to optimize it for self-defense.  Lets break them down one by one.

1. Rifles are better than pistols.  Rifles are superior to pistols (either revolvers or semi-automatic) primarily due to accuracy.  This is due to the fact that they are supported by the shoulder whereas a pistol is held unsupported in one’s hand.  A new shooter can easily hit a man-sized target with a rifle at typica self-defense ranges (0-25 feet or so).  Contrary to the movies, most inexperienced people cannot hit a man-sized target after about 10 feet with a pistol.  Accuracy is critical in self-defense situations such as burglaries because the bad guys may be in close proximity to a family member or other innocent party.  You need to absolutely be able to hit the bad guy, and only the bad guy, without injuring innocent parties.  The rifle is far and away the best choice to accomplish this.  In addition, rifles are superior to pistols because they are more powerful.  Contrary to the movies, a single hit from a weaker pistol is not going to instantly drop a bad guy.  You have a much better chance of stopping a threat before they can kill you with a rifle as opposed to a pistol.

2. Rifles are better than shotguns.  While a shotgun is a very fine self-defense weapon, a rifle is generally superior again because it is more accurate.  A rifle sends a single bullet precisely where it is aimed.  A shotgun sends a pattern of shot, and beyond contact distace some pellets will hit the target and some will likely miss (and possibly hit an innocent).  Further, a .223 caliber AR-15 is less likely to penetrate interior structures than a 12 guage with buckshot (the most common self-defense shotgun combination).

3. Semi-automatic is needed for self-defense.  Rifles which are not semi-automatic require the user to manually load the next round, using a lever, pump, or bolt-action.   This is, quite simply, outdated 19th century technology which is completely inadequate for self-defense.  For instance, two burglars break into your house.  Even if you hit the one, the time it takes you to re-load with a lever or bolt is more than enough time for the other to kill you.  Further, unlike the movies where everyone (but the hero) drops with one shot, in reality it may take several shots to put down a bad guy before he can in turn shoot you or a family member.  

4. Reliability.  AR-15s and other similar semi-automatics take a lot of flack for looking like actual machine guns.  But they look the way they do for very important reasons, the primary one being reliability.  An M-16 is designed to be horribly abused by a bunch of 18 year olds in horrible conditions and still work.  A civilian AR-15 borrows that reliability, and in so doing ends up looking like the M-16.  

5. Ergonomics.  Another reason why the AR-15 looks like the M-16 is ergonomics.  A military rifle must be usable by a wide range of body types, and things such as pistol grips and collapsable stocks allow a rifle to be used equally well by a 200lb male and a 90lb female.

6. Detachable magazines.  Are a huge advantage in self-defense situations.  Far and away the most common item to break on a weapon is the magazine.  With a detachable magazine, you can usually fix this simply by discarding the bad magazine and replacing it with a new one.  With a fixed magazine (such as in most level or bolt-action guns) you now have an expensive club.  Detachable magazines are also safer to unload because you simply drop the magazine and unchamber the live round.  Many lever or bolt action rifles require to you chamber each round and eject it manually, which is less safe.  Also, in the event you run out of ammo it can be reloaded faster.    

7. Penetration.  To begin with, any round capable of reliabily putting down a bad guy will penetrate interior walls.  See http://www.theboxotruth.com/  Interior walls are, quite simply, not designed to stop bullets.  But the .223 round used by the AR-15 is on the smaller side of rifle rounds.  In hunting, it is usually used for animals smaller than deer and will penetrate a lot less than typical hunting rounds such as the 30.06 or .308 Winchester, or shotguns loaded with buckshot.  Even the dreaded 7.62x39mm round of the AK-47 clones is on the weak side, being generally comparable to a .30-30 Winchester hunting round (designed in the 1890s) commonly used for deer.  

8. Recoil.  Because a semi-automatic uses part of the bullet’s energy to load the next round, recoil is less.  Women and smaller stature males generally have no trouble handling an AR-15, whereas they may not be able to handle the recoil of typical hunting rifles.  Further, fear of recoil commonly causes new shooters to flinch, thus throwing off their shot which can be really bad news when someone is trying to kill you.  

9. Accuracy.  The AR-15 is extremely accurate.  Contrary to the political rhetoric, it is not designed to spray and pray.  No rifle is.  The simple physics of a gun are that very, very small movement of the weapon throws the shot off by inches or even feet, even at very short distances.  While the movies portray people spraying from the hip and hitting everything in the room, in reality it takes careful aim and calm nerves to hit anything.  The AR-15 is inherently accurate at hitting what it is aimed at.

In short, “assault weapons” such as the AR-15 are one of the best, if not the best options for self-defense.  This is why cops, professional security, and others who do this for a living use them.  

Politics

As quoted above, some high-level police chiefs and federal agencies have very negative things to say about weapons such as the AR-15.  But don’t be misled that cops hate guns.  The higher-levels of any large department or federal agency are very political positions.  Rank and file cops on the street generally support your right to use a gun to protect yourself.  See http://www.leaa.org/  But more importantly, think about what is said.  If an AR-15 really is a “military only” weapon designed to “spray and pray” then why do cops have them?  After all, they are not soldiers and should not be going around spraying and praying with bullet hoses at American citizens.  In point of fact they do not.  Cops chose the AR-15 because it reliably allows them to stop the bad guy without hurting innocent bystanders.  Which is exactly what you want in your own self-defense rifle.


link to ownage