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Posted: 2/19/2006 3:02:52 PM EDT
^^?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:04:41 PM EDT
Do you have a letter from your congresscritter, loads of non-athletic extracurricular activites and are you an Eagle Scout?

These things would be an extra counterbalance.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:57:36 PM EDT
I'm posting for a friend.

He has pretty decent grades (3.5gpa) so so SAT scores (1150)

He took some congress leadership dealy in DC over summer... it covered counter terrorism and nation security. He got 2 college credits from that. He does some volunteering at a hospitol plus a couple random clubs. I think he's also involved in student government.

What do you say?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:59:51 PM EDT
I'm sorry, but without sports of some kind, his chances are nil.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:00:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:00:33 PM EDT by SevenMMmag]
1150 out of 2400 (new SAT)? I honestly don't think that would make you competitive.

Even a 1150 out of 1600 (old SAT) would still be below average
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
1150 out of 2400 (new SAT)? I honestly don't think that would make you competitive.

Even a 1150 out of 1600 (old SAT) would still be below average




I got in with 1150 (old) combining my best scores, but I did have to go to NAPS.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:01:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:02:44 PM EDT by John210]
He's only a junior right now so he could try out for something quickly before the spring season begins.

He said he might wanna do track... so if he got 2 seasons of that in before he handed in his application would that be good enough?

His dad also worked for the army for 26 years (civilian), does that help in anyway?

Yeah thats 1150 on the old so that'd be 1650 on the new.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:02:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:03:18 PM EDT by Zakk_Wylde_470]
Tell him to do track and throw shot, discus and javelin. No running

ETA: Well there's a bit of running in javelin, but hardly any.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:04:34 PM EDT
Tell him to do more than one sport. As many as he can swing. Varsity and/or intramural.


Look, all the letters, grades, and clubs in the world are great, but without sports, he's SUNK. I don't know if one year will be enough (I really only had two), but I do know that NO sports will guarantee being turned down.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:07:50 PM EDT
Well apparently its too late for varsity try outs, but he could do jv... should he even bother?

Plus with the application could that be used for other military academies? Would it be just as hard to get in if he had little to sports?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:10:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
Well apparently its too late for varsity try outs, but he could do jv... should he even bother?



If he wants to go to a service academy, HE BETTER.


Plus with the application could that be used for other military academies? Would it be just as hard to get in if he had little to sports?


All academies have similar requirements. Sports are mandatory. Each one has to be applied to seperately.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
He's only a junior right now so he could try out for something quickly before the spring season begins.

He said he might wanna do track... so if he got 2 seasons of that in before he handed in his application would that be good enough?

His dad also worked for the army for 26 years (civilian), does that help in anyway?

Yeah thats 1150 on the old so that'd be 1650 on the new.





Tell him to go and take that test again. You can take it more than once, I believe. Definitely take the ACT as many times as possible (your score seems to go up each time . . . hmhmhm).
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:14:51 PM EDT
For comparison:
I applied; received a nomination, but not an appointment. I had two seasons of athletics, and they were only on the JV team. I am an Eagle Scout. I had a slightly above average score on the old SAT.

He needs to take an SAT prep class to improve his score.

He does need to do some athletics, and letter if he can get it. Whatever physical test they have in the paperwork, he needs to train to knock it out of the park, everything else besides.

I don't see how what his dad did will help him.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GTLandser:
For comparison:
I applied; received a nomination, but not an appointment. I had two seasons of athletics, and they were only on the JV team. I am an Eagle Scout. I had a slightly above average score on the old SAT.

He needs to take an SAT prep class to improve his score.

He does need to do some athletics, and letter if he can get it. Whatever physical test they have in the paperwork, he needs to train to knock it out of the park, everything else besides.

I don't see how what his dad did will help him.




Did you get accepted?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:23:54 PM EDT
Low probability unless he was SUPERIOR in academics and SAT's.

Unless he excels in track, or whatever sport he attempts in the next THREE seasons, it would not really be worth it. As it will detract from academics to some degree. Unless he was a natural and didn't need to practice very hard.

If he is a Junior right now he has Spring track coming right now. Then he will have winter track or Cross Country {or both}, and then spring track for his senior year.

In theory he could get 4 season worth of "track" in if his school has fall X-country, winter track and spring track.

Good Luck!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:24:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By John210:
Well apparently its too late for varsity try outs, but he could do jv... should he even bother?



If he wants to go to a service academy, HE BETTER.


Plus with the application could that be used for other military academies? Would it be just as hard to get in if he had little to sports?


All academies have similar requirements. Sports are mandatory. Each one has to be applied to seperately.



Would Amatuer Athletic Union Sports count?

When I was in High School I competed in AAU Karate and there was always a crew from the USNA. I kicked the shit out of a couple of them ( they were both in the 17-18 yo division) good competitiors. I remember they had an upper classman as a Chaparone.

If so if the OP's friend couldn't get into High School sports he could get into an AAU program.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:26:52 PM EDT
He ain't getting in with an 1150 SAT.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:31:23 PM EDT
Chances he'll get selected are slim. West Point is looking for a "Whole Man," someone who has a balance between both brain and brawn.

My younger brother had a fairly good balance, but not at a high enough achievement level for what the academies were looking for. Coast Guard offered him a year at the Naval Academy Prep School, which worked on his grades, athletics, and military skills. Completing Prep, both Coast Guard and Navy offered appointments. "Dance with the one what brung ya," and he went to Coast Guard.

It wasn't easy, and he had to do five years (his academics were OK but his military grades were superior), repeating senior year. He degreed in Math and Computer Science, was commissioned, and stayed in almost 10 years before getting out to be a cop.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:33:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By s32:
He ain't getting in with an 1150 SAT.



Yes, he can. I am living proof that you can.

It's the sports that will kill him.


I had a 3.65 GPA, 1150 on the SAT, Varsity Basketball and Softball, Intramural Football, President of the Computer, Spanish, and Chemistry Clubs, JROTC, and a TON of recommendation letters, including Rudy Giuliani and George Steinbrenner.

All of that, and I STILL was sent to NAPS.

So, it's possible, but tough. Impossible without sports. They look for the physical attributes, teamwork, and leadership is too important to them.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:33:36 PM EDT
Hmm so are other academies easier to get in? and are they just as respected as westpoint?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:33:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:

Originally Posted By GTLandser:
For comparison:
I applied; received a nomination, but not an appointment. I had two seasons of athletics, and they were only on the JV team. I am an Eagle Scout. I had a slightly above average score on the old SAT.

He needs to take an SAT prep class to improve his score.

He does need to do some athletics, and letter if he can get it. Whatever physical test they have in the paperwork, he needs to train to knock it out of the park, everything else besides.

I don't see how what his dad did will help him.




Did you get accepted?



Nope.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:34:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
Hmm so are other academies easier to get in? and are they just as respected as westpoint?




Just as tough. Just as respected.

Of course, USNA is the best among them.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:34:43 PM EDT
1150 on the SAT?

did he not study and was he stoned and drunk when he took it?!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:36:35 PM EDT
Ah its not looking good for him lol... He said if he didn't have a chance at westpoint then he might want to try the navel academy but that doesn't sound very likely as well.

Oh well i'll just tell the asshat to go to a normal college and just join rotc...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:37:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
1150 on the SAT?

did he not study and was he stoned and drunk when he took it?!



again thats the old sat... so it was actually a 1650
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:40:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:40:43 PM EDT by NoVaGator]
FWIW, he couldn't get in to UF with those grades/SAT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:41:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By s32:
He ain't getting in with an 1150 SAT.



Yes, he can. I am living proof that you can.



1150 in the late 80's was REALLY good. 1150's in 1995 and later was below average for what you needed just to be SERIOUSLY considered for top schools.

1150 now is probably not too good.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:41:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
Ah its not looking good for him lol... He said if he didn't have a chance at westpoint then he might want to try the navel academy but that doesn't sound very likely as well.

Oh well i'll just tell the asshat to go to a normal college and just join rotc...



I did not go into the service because of some health issues.

But I was offered an ROTC ride from the college I went to. Now those ROTC rides are handed out by the departments at the individual colleges. So if he wants an easy ROTC ride, or an easy academic ride he may want to look into going to a Historically Black College. I got a free academic ride to Virginia State University with an 1180 and a 3.8 GPA. Then after two semesters with a 4.0 GPA in college the ROTC guys wanted me. Actually the director of the academic scholarship program was the former head of the ROTC departmetn, he wanted to give me a ROTC ride from the start.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:42:00 PM EDT
uf?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
uf?



University of Florida....while one of the better public universities in the country, it's no West Point.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:12:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
1150 out of 2400 (new SAT)? I honestly don't think that would make you competitive.

Even a 1150 out of 1600 (old SAT) would still be below average




I got in with 1150 (old) combining my best scores, but I did have to go to NAPS.



When did you go to NAPS?

Randall
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 5:24:46 PM EDT by s32]
Zaphod, you got in with 1150.
Was this a long time ago?
Schools have been getting more selective over the years as more kids go to college. 30 years ago my Dad had a 1230 and went to Duke, today that just wouldn't happen.
They also made the SAT's easier in the early 90's (I think). Test scores went up.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:44:19 PM EDT
Highly doubtful at best. I essentially grew up and worked at USMA for many years. Two of my cousins graduated there in the late 90's, My younger sister was consideriing attending and was considered a shoo-in due to her academic AND athletic accomplishments. The academy looks at the whole individual and considers athletics and extra ciricular activities almost as important as academics. Every cadet is required to participate in a sport and to complete his/her pt activities every day on his/her own honor-- that is whey every day you will see cadets running up and down Washington rd to Lee Gate all day in what seems to be no particular order ,,they do thier run as thier class and duty shedule permits-- While it is not impossible, and I urge you to apply anyway --the worst they can say is "No" --many famous officers seemed to be bad fits at West Point-- it is unlikely that you would get in without any athletic activities. Keep in mind you can still attend a few Mil academy prep schools and bolster your resume for a later try OR I know when I was still up there there were OCS attendees from the enlisted ranks of the regular Army getting thier commisions as cadets as well.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:58:51 PM EDT
It doesn't sound like he stands out at all. No athletics, poor SAT, and mediocre GPA. The service academies (as well as most competitive universities) would have no reason to select him. Even if he blows his congressmen, the academies still won't select him. Why is he even considering it?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
1150 on the SAT?

did he not study and was he stoned and drunk when he took it?!



heh--i got a 1310 back in 89, and i was still drunk from the night before.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:04:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:36:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John210:
Ah its not looking good for him lol... He said if he didn't have a chance at westpoint then he might want to try the navel academy but that doesn't sound very likely as well.

Oh well i'll just tell the asshat to go to a normal college and just join rotc...




NAVAL!

Sorry. Pet peave.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:37:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rino451:

When did you go to NAPS?

Randall




Class of 1987.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:38:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By s32:
Zaphod, you got in with 1150.
Was this a long time ago?




1986/87.

I know they reconfigured the scoring later on, but I'm not sure how. Apparently 1150 now is akin to scoring 700 back then.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:41:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:42:50 PM EDT
I got a 1340/1600 and had a 4.0.

I didn't get into MIT, Cornell, or Stanford for enginerding.

So here I am @ U of I.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:58:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
It should be.
Especially after you guys issued diplomas to the Navel Academy graduates some years back






I heard about that. The administration ordered everyone to give them back. Hardly anyone did. Can you say "collector's item", boys and girls?

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:40:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 7:44:25 PM EDT by Warrior-Poet]
I am a grad of USMA. I did no major sports in HS. I did participate in other activities which showed I was 'a well rounded man', including Scouting, Army ROTC, and other extra-curricular activities. I was on the Fort Bragg swim team, yadayada. I rode my bike everywhere. I also passed the PFT on my first attempt. So a 'history' of sports is NOT required. I had a decent GPA and good SAT scores.

I went on play Goat-Engineer football, IM football, competitive member of the Parachute Team, and a few other fun things like IM boxing. I was also a Double-Century man my yearling year.

Be well rounded. Be 'a character'. The SAT is more of an issue w/o sports or e/c activities. So, buck up. Never say 'don't apply' just because he lacks some aspect of the 'normal' background. USMA and the other Service Academies have programs that'll allow anyone to pursue nearly any ahtletic event or hobby, and do well academically and physically.

1*
F-1 Marching 100
1975
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:55:11 PM EDT
Just tell him to go to ROTC. At least he'll get to have a college experience versus academy grads who are less socially adept when they leave than when they entered.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:03:25 PM EDT
I had a varsity letter in Xcountry, 1300 SAT, 28 ACT, and 3.6 GPA and got into USAFA.

I turned them down to go to ROTC at Miami..... best decision of my entire life!

The service academies are overrated. 4 years of hell, sub-standard education, aborted social development, and minimal chance to get laid...... and ROTC gives you the EXACT SAME gold bar

the only upshot is that you get to be a a ringknocking dickhead when you're on active duty. everyone else will HATE you, but you're cool to other ringknockers.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:04:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YukonJack69:
Just tell him to go to ROTC. At least he'll get to have a college experience versus academy grads who are less socially adept when they leave than when they entered.



What utter crap.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:07:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
The service academies are overrated. 4 years of hell, sub-standard education, aborted social development, and minimal chance to get laid...... and ROTC gives you the EXACT SAME gold bar

the only upshot is that you get to be a a ringknocking dickhead when you're on active duty. everyone else will HATE you, but you're cool to other ringknockers.



You're so full of it I doubt you actually were accepted, for no other reason that a person with your attitude would never have applied in the first place.

To consider UM better than USAFA is simple fantasy. I'm a graduate of UM, too, and it doesn't hold a candle to ANY service academy.

"sub-standard education"
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By YukonJack69:
Just tell him to go to ROTC. At least he'll get to have a college experience versus academy grads who are less socially adept when they leave than when they entered.



What utter crap.



Not crap at all. Obviously not everyone is like that, but many are lacking lifeskills their first year or two out. Just the nature of the beast. You go straight from high school and spend 4 years in a very structured environment where you are told what to do without having to deal with what most college students deal with. It's good and bad at the same time.
I don't agree that the education is poor (it is outstanding) but I've seen many dudes have problems getting along with others once they get out.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:37:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 8:53:36 PM EDT by CharlieR]
I hate to lay it out for your friend, but if he just woke up and decided he wants to go to a service academy, didnt know athletics were part of the bag, and isnt physically inclined anyway than he has problems.

Old school numbers were 14000 or so filled out the applications completely for 1200 slots. And you can bet some cash that if you are serious about getting in that there are kids who have been thinking about it for awhile and have the sports resume your friend doesen't. And as for athletics, the average guy is a team captain and a varsity letter is almost a prerequisite.

So let me throw this question out: Why does he want to go? I got what he wants-give me a reason.

If he wants to go to a service academy, he is behind the power curve and if he catches up, then what. And oh yeah Ive seen classes go in with 1200 and come out with under a thousand so "squeaking in" isn't doing him any big favors.

He could do ROTC and get commissioned, with no major issues. If he wants to do some particular thing in the Army, then enlist, go to the war, get out, go to ROTC and you write your own ticket.
I know some guys who did quite well doing that but you have to have some focus.

Just for fun, if you google "USMA recent class profile" rather than have your friends ask questions for you on ARFCOM, you would find:

Volume of Applicants Men Women

Applicant Files Started 9,326 2,553
Nominated 3,487 673
Qualified (academically
& in physical aptitude) 1,971 379
Accepted/offered 1,030 194


College Board Scholastic Assessment Test (SAT) Scores*
Range Verbal Math
700-800 20% 25%
600-699 46% 52%
500-599 31% 23%
400-499 3% 0%
300-399 0% 0%
Mean 629 648
*Includes only scores used as a basis for admission.


Varsity Athletics.............................. 1113
Letter Winner................................ 1072
Team Captain.................................. 766



Not trying to bust your chops, but this is not the sort of info that someone seriously interested could not have found in 5 minutes.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:03:29 AM EDT
HI

My son got into the USNA with a 1410 and 4.0 . He was Captain of the Varsity Football Team, State Champs 3 years in a row. Played Varsity baseball and Track and wrestling and did tons of community activities. He did not get accepted at the USAFA.


Irighti
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:09:32 AM EDT
I'm shocked that there are two Miami alums on this thread that don't live in NJ or Boca
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