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Posted: 5/18/2005 10:56:46 AM EDT
Off-Duty California Officer Shoots Man During Carjacking Attempt


ASSOCIATED PRESS


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A masked, shotgun-carrying man shot by an off-duty Oakland police officer during an attempted carjacking is recovering from his injuries, authorities said.

Ceasar Johnson, 19, of Oakland, remained hospitalized Tuesday at San Francisco General Hospital. He has been arrested on suspicion of carjacking, attempted robbery and illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun, police said.

Oakland police Officer Ted Jew had just finished working an overtime shift on Sunday when he stopped at a gas station to fuel his Mercedes Benz.

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.
The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.

Jew, an Oakland police officer since 2001, was placed on three days' administrative leave after an interview with San Francisco investigators.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:00:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:02:11 AM EDT
I don't care who ya'are, thats funny!


Originally Posted By shotar:
You know, there are still people out there who think Jews don't have guns.

Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:02:11 AM EDT
That's one J for the PFO!
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:03:17 AM EDT
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:03:56 AM EDT
yeah that was wrong...... but funny


Originally Posted By Slacker:
I don't care who ya'are, thats funny!


Originally Posted By shotar:
You know, there are still people out there who think Jews don't have guns.


Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:04:52 AM EDT
Good shoot.

BTW an Oakland PD officer lives behind my parent's house in Woodland, CA...70 miles from Oakland. He commutes.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:06:23 AM EDT
Good shoot, too bad the perp's still breathing
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:06:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 11:09:29 AM EDT by panzersergeant]
Why was it necessary to mention that he had a Mercedes Benz? Why not just say he was "gassing up his car?"

Good shoot, just the same.


ETA your average Joe-Blow California citizen subject would've just gotten shot and gave up his car.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:01:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:03:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
Why was it necessary to mention that he had a Mercedes Benz? Why not just say he was "gassing up his car?"

Good shoot, just the same.


ETA your average Joe-Blow California citizen subject would've just gotten shot and gave up his car.



nah the average Ca citizen would have died defending his benz instead of handing over the keys
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:05:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RSF45:
Good shoot, too bad the perp's still breathing



damn department issued 9mm! whenever i read these stories you can pretty much assume, 9mm equals badguy in hospital .45 equals no more badguy.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:06:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 12:07:01 PM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
He has been arrested on suspicion of carjacking, attempted robbery and illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun, police said.



"suspicion"? pffffffffft. Like, Gee, I think he was carjacking me I suppose, and I suspect he did have a shotgun, but I'm not entirely sure, you know? But I shot him anyhow, WTF.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:06:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
Why was it necessary to mention that he had a Mercedes Benz? Why not just say he was "gassing up his car?"

Good shoot, just the same.


ETA your average Joe-Blow California citizen subject would've just gotten shot and gave up his car.



nah the average Ca citizen would have died defending his benz instead of handing over the keys



Not sure what you're getting at, but just recently here a guy got carjacked, shot & killed and left in an intersection. I guess handing over the keys doesn't always save your ass.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:07:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



Exactly, there is 2 standards in this country and they're even worse in places like in CA.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:08:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.



But not pretty good laws for CCW, no?
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:10:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.



But not pretty good laws for CCW, no?



LOL good luck getting a permit in Queer town.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:17:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan: The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.



Wow, FULLY loaded! Guess that makes it an assault weapon. Now if it had been only partially loaded, that's a different story.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:20:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 12:23:49 PM EDT by dvr9]

Originally Posted By shotar:
You know, there are still people out there who think Jews don't have guns.



That is too funny. Gets my nomination for the best post of the month!

The story mentions the Merceded Benz for two reasons. 1) to infer that the cop may be a bad cop because we all know that officers cannot afford nice cars and 2) to drive home the class warfare angle by playing up the fact that a middle class, fairly well to do person gunned down a poor, out of work member of a minority.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:24:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.



Yeah! Hang on Mr. Car jacker while I get my ammo out of the locked trunk and load my pistol.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:27:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:


"suspicion"? pffffffffft. Like, Gee, I think he was carjacking me I suppose, and I suspect he did have a shotgun, but I'm not entirely sure, you know? But I shot him anyhow, WTF.



You have to remember, badguys are innocent until proven guilty, it is normal folks that are guilty from the onset simply for excersizing their right to self preservation.

You have the Libs and the ACLU to thank for that.

Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:27:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.



OK, I'm not LEO and a guy is walking towards me wearing a mask and carrying a shotgun and I pull a semiautomatic pistol and fire, repeatedly, at the man in the mask.

What would happen to me

The story mentions no dialog and no acted threats.

I bet I'd still be cuffed to a desk repeating the story.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:30:18 PM EDT
Don't mess with a Jew.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:30:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:

Originally Posted By shotar:
You know, there are still people out there who think Jews don't have guns.



That is too funny. Gets my nomination for the best post of the month!

The story mentions the Merceded Benz for two reasons. 1) to infer that the cop may be a bad cop because we all know that officers cannot afford nice cars and 2) to drive home the class warfare angle by playing up the fact that a middle class, fairly well to do person gunned down a poor, out of work member of a minority.



Exactly!
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:38:11 PM EDT
Don't you know man - ONLY LEO can handle this situation. If you had made the same decision to protect yourself - you would have been labeled a gun toting fool!

That is why you NEVER - hardly ever - Hear about law abiding citizens acting in the same manner as this LEO.

Good For him. Glad he is safe and sound. Glad he will not have to pay $30K to defend himself.

but still a big Bummer for the rest of us!


Originally Posted By Hanz:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.



OK, I'm not LEO and a guy is walking towards me wearing a mask and carrying a shotgun and I pull a semiautomatic pistol and fire, repeatedly, at the man in the mask.

What would happen to me

The story mentions no dialog and no acted threats.

I bet I'd still be cuffed to a desk repeating the story.

Link Posted: 5/18/2005 12:39:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:34:09 PM EDT
Notice how the article does not say that the shooter "TOOK THE LAW IN HIS OWN HANDS." Also notice how it did not stress that the shooter should have just handed over the keys and offered no resistance. Which are tow things newspapers love to include in stories that invlove citizens in self defense.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:48:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 9:49:47 PM EDT by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By Hanz:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.



OK, I'm not LEO and a guy is walking towards me wearing a mask and carrying a shotgun and I pull a semiautomatic pistol and fire, repeatedly, at the man in the mask.

What would happen to me

The story mentions no dialog and no acted threats.

I bet I'd still be cuffed to a desk repeating the story.



No acted threats A masked subject walking toward you holding a sawed-off would put any reasonable person in fear of becoming the victim of a violent crime which gives you more than enough reason to defend yourself.

Dont be so quick to always assume that you would be treated as a offender by the police. Two weeks ago, I responded to a call of a shooting victim in a area known for gang activity. Turns out that the local latin kings went after a neighbor after a verbal argument. There were 6 gangbangers and one of the shitheads was armed with a baseball bat. The "victim" pulled out his fathers Colt Commander and fired 7 times, hitting the bozo with the bat once in the shin The shooter then left the scene, but was stopped by a patrol unit that observed the car fleeing from the area with its lights out while responding to the call. He was very untruthful for the first couple of hours, but after coming clean, he was released without charges. I gave him one of my cards and told him to give me a call if they have anymore problems with the locals.

Yes, you probably would be detained for sometime while the incident was investigated, but it is doubtful that you would be charged with anything especially if you are in the right and are truthful from the start.

ETA: This all took place in Cook county, IL. one of the worst places on the planet for gunowner rights. In Chicago, you cannot even own or possess a handgun within the city limits. And IL. has NO Concealed carry
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:53:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By southeast_scrounger:

Originally Posted By AR15fan: The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.



Wow, FULLY loaded! Guess that makes it an assault weapon. Now if it had been only partially loaded, that's a different story.



I guess you would be surprised to learn just how often people commit "armed" robbery with non funtioning or unloaded firearms, BB guns, Airsoft, starter pistols, simulated guns (hand in coat pocket) and realistic looking toy guns.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:55:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



Yes, you're life is not worth nearly as much. Move to a state that considers all it's law abiding
citizens lives worth saving regardless of race or occupation.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:57:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2005 1:58:38 PM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.



As long as you don't use a gun or a cigarette lighter or anything sharp

How do you defend yourself with an avacado?
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:58:17 PM EDT
For those who are complaining that this officer was treated differently than a lawfully armed victim would have been in the same situation. Note the officer WAS detained and interviewed by the local PD, then placed on admin leave by his employer (which most forward thinking agencies quit doing). Would your boss put you on leave following a lawfull shooting unrelated to your work?
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 1:59:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
For those who are complaining that this officer was treated differently than a lawfully armed victim would have been in the same situation. Note the officer WAS detained and interviewed by the local PD, then placed on admin leave by his employer (which most forward thinking agencies quit doing). Would your boss put you on leave following a lawfull shooting unrelated to your work?



Sorry, he was treated differently long before the shooting took place. If he was treated like everyone else in California he would not have had the gun to defend himself with.

No matter how you slice it, he got preferential treatment.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 2:08:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
For those who are complaining that this officer was treated differently than a lawfully armed victim would have been in the same situation. Note the officer WAS detained and interviewed by the local PD, then placed on admin leave by his employer (which most forward thinking agencies quit doing). Would your boss put you on leave following a lawfull shooting unrelated to your work?



Sorry, he was treated differently long before the shooting took place. If he was treated like everyone else in California he would not have had the gun to defend himself with.

No matter how you slice it, he got preferential treatment.



Cali has CCW, it's just left up to the discretion of the local sheriff. Most of my shooting buddies have their CCW.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 2:19:34 PM EDT
Your buddies probably don't live in the same county as me. (Santa Clara)

NTM
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 2:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hanz:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.



OK, I'm not LEO and a guy is walking towards me wearing a mask and carrying a shotgun and I pull a semiautomatic pistol and fire, repeatedly, at the man in the mask.

What would happen to me

The story mentions no dialog and no acted threats.

I bet I'd still be cuffed to a desk repeating the story.



The media is not always right. There very well may have been dialog.

Then again some deadly force situations require no dialogue.

Sadly if you were a good citizen in CA you wouldn't have a gun.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 2:38:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gartchen:
Don't you know man - ONLY LEO can handle this situation. If you had made the same decision to protect yourself - you would have been labeled a gun toting fool!

That is why you NEVER - hardly ever - Hear about law abiding citizens acting in the same manner as this LEO.
Good For him. Glad he is safe and sound. Glad he will not have to pay $30K to defend himself.

but still a big Bummer for the rest of us!


Originally Posted By Hanz:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.



OK, I'm not LEO and a guy is walking towards me wearing a mask and carrying a shotgun and I pull a semiautomatic pistol and fire, repeatedly, at the man in the mask.

What would happen to me

The story mentions no dialog and no acted threats.

I bet I'd still be cuffed to a desk repeating the story.




No, it's because the media only tells you what they want to.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 3:42:27 PM EDT
Guys,

I live in NY and although I have a carry license it has restrictions placed on it by the county police commissioner. Basically I can carry concealed when going to, or coming from, the range. If I owned a business and could show cash bank deposits over a weekly period totaling a required sum then I could get a “Full Carry License”. Too bad I don’t have enough money to prove myself valuable enough to warrant the ability to defend myself with a handgun outside of my home.

I am not anti LE and I have a few friends who are LE in a couple of different forms. I admit I was playing “Devils Advocate” and bending the story to suit my view. I was just pointing out that the story said a masked man carrying a shotgun approached Officer Jew and Officer Jew opened fire.

Sorry guys, I guess I'm just a bit bitter that I'm lawfully denied a God Given Right. I'm also aware that those of you who are LE have it worse than I do.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 10:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 3:38:40 AM EDT by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By Hanz:
Guys,

I live in NY and although I have a carry license it has restrictions placed on it by the county police commissioner. Basically I can carry concealed when going to, or coming from, the range. If I owned a business and could show cash bank deposits over a weekly period totaling a required sum then I could get a “Full Carry License”. Too bad I don’t have enough money to prove myself valuable enough to warrant the ability to defend myself with a handgun outside of my home.

I am not anti LE and I have a few friends who are LE in a couple of different forms. I admit I was playing “Devils Advocate” and bending the story to suit my view. I was just pointing out that the story said a masked man carrying a shotgun approached Officer Jew and Officer Jew opened fire.

Sorry guys, I guess I'm just a bit bitter that I'm lawfully denied a God Given Right. I'm also aware that those of you who are LE have it worse than I do.



Hanz,

I understand your frustration... Tonight on the local news there was a 5min. piece on how all of the IL. Democratic senators are proposing a additional $12mil. to go toward beefing up the US Marshalls federal judge protection detail. They sat there saying how important it is for judges to be protected, and used Judge Lefkow, (who's husband and mother were murdered earlier this year by a individual who was defendant in a civil trial that Lefkow handled) to grandstand their proposal. Yet they turn around and they say that a law abiding, tax paying, private citizen cannot, and should not be allowed to arm themselves to protect their own lives while being out in public, surrounded by the same criminals who the judges need to be protected from. Fuckin' hypocrites...
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 3:36:06 PM EDT
The Hebrew Hammer.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 4:50:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Off-Duty California Officer Shoots Man During Carjacking Attempt


ASSOCIATED PRESS


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A masked, shotgun-carrying man shot by an off-duty Oakland police officer during an attempted carjacking is recovering from his injuries, authorities said.

Ceasar Johnson, 19, of Oakland, remained hospitalized Tuesday at San Francisco General Hospital. He has been arrested on suspicion of carjacking, attempted robbery and illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun, police said.

Oakland police Officer Ted Jew had just finished working an overtime shift on Sunday when he stopped at a gas station to fuel his Mercedes Benz.

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.
The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.

Jew, an Oakland police officer since 2001, was placed on three days' administrative leave after an interview with San Francisco investigators.


PWNED, courtesy of the Oakland Police Department!
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 4:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Good shoot.

BTW an Oakland PD officer lives behind my parent's house in Woodland, CA...70 miles from Oakland. He commutes.


How the flaming heck can you be an Oakland LEO if ya don't live in Oakland.

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 4:57:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By gigmike:
And I suppose if you're not a cop in Cali then you're just supposed to be a good citizen and get shot or lose your car?



thats BS CA has some pretty good laws for protecting yourself.



As long as you don't use a gun or a cigarette lighter or anything sharp

How do you defend yourself with an avacado?



I dunno, but if someone attacks you with a banana you have to deprive them of their weapon by eating it according to Monty Python. Shooting them first is incidental to the action.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:22:23 PM EDT
Easy. You commute to work from many miles inland like most of the rest of the Bay Area workforce.

Bay area prices for housing are absolutely ludicrious.

NTM
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:35:54 PM EDT
NickDrak,

I think I would get a fair shake.

I once used a shotgun to protect myself while interrupting a man that I saw trying to break into my truck. I lived next door to a crack house at the time <really> and my GF had already called 911 while I was loading the 870. I stepped out onto the porch and racked one into the chamber and waited to see what the guy would do. He looked up and put his hands in the air as I asked, “May I help you?” I held the shotgun in a low ready position as the guy broke into his BS story about thinking he owned the truck at one time and was wondering if it was one in the same. I stood there hoping the PD would arrive quickly so this creep could get arrested. Then a mid eighties Chevy Caprice with three occupants and all the windows down rolled up and stopped behind the BG. It was not open window weather and I went from feeling like king shit to shithead in about half a second. I was out on my open porch wearing sweatpants and an 870 without a lick of cover. 99% of my attention went to watching the Caprice’s windows and I told the guy to “GettheFuckOuttahere” <after all, I am a NYer> as I motioned towards the crack house with my head. He took a step and I saw the brake release on the Chevy so I backed into my apartment glad to be alive. I watched through the window and saw the guy get into the Caprice and head around the corner. The PD arrived about 4 minutes later and I told them the whole story exactly as it went down. I thought I might get in trouble for bringing the shotgun out onto the porch with me. I knew I couldn’t shoot the guy for just screwing with my truck but who knows what state of mind the guy was in. They actually complimented me on my judgment and behavior and wished me well.

The crackheads used to hang around by the street and try to intimidate me by posing tough and staring at me whenever I was outside doing chores or coming and going. I used to just give them dumb looks or stop and stare back. After the “shotgun incident” they used to scatter like cockroaches at the sight of my vehicle or me.

I used that experience to open a dialog with the PD and they opened an investigation. I would begin each day by going outside and pretending to warm up my truck while copying down makes, models and plates. I’d get to work and telephone the precinct and give the days catch to a Detective. After about six weeks the PD conducted a successful raid.

The whole experience taught me an awful lot. I learned that the Police were human and helpful. I learned how to earn some respect in the crack community. I also learned not to try and play superman if you don’t have any cover.

My big beef is that the police commissioner is not elected but is appointed by the county executive. The county executive is an elected official but that doesn’t mean I have a direct vote on the carry issue.

It sounds like you and I both will just have to make the best out of the cards we are dealt.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 12:35:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Off-Duty California Officer Shoots Man During Carjacking Attempt


ASSOCIATED PRESS


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A masked, shotgun-carrying man shot by an off-duty Oakland police officer during an attempted carjacking is recovering from his injuries, authorities said.

Ceasar Johnson, 19, of Oakland, remained hospitalized Tuesday at San Francisco General Hospital. He has been arrested on suspicion of carjacking, attempted robbery and illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun, police said.

Oakland police Officer Ted Jew had just finished working an overtime shift on Sunday when he stopped at a gas station to fuel his Mercedes Benz.

Police said Johnson, wearing a mask and carrying the shotgun, began walking toward Jew. Jew pulled a semiautomatic pistol he carries while off duty and fired at Johnson, hitting him several times.
The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.

Jew, an Oakland police officer since 2001, was placed on three days' administrative leave after an interview with San Francisco investigators.



Placed on leave because the guy didn't die? There's a lot going unsaid here. Ever notice that as usual the farther away somebody is from CA the dumber the things they say about CA
PWNED, courtesy of the Oakland Police Department!

Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:10:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Good shoot.

BTW an Oakland PD officer lives behind my parent's house in Woodland, CA...70 miles from Oakland. He commutes.


How the flaming heck can you be an Oakland LEO if ya don't live in Oakland.




Most departments have some sort of residency requirement, or a requirement that the officer must live within a certain number of miles of the city that he/she works for. I guess that the rules are relaxed a little in the bay area cuz government employees generally don't make enough to be able to afford housing there.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:26:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:00:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 3:08:21 AM EDT by op_rod]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By southeast_scrounger:

Originally Posted By AR15fan: The shotgun turned out to be fully loaded, police said.



Wow, FULLY loaded! Guess that makes it an assault weapon. Now if it had been only partially loaded, that's a different story.



I guess you would be surprised to learn just how often people commit "armed" robbery with non funtioning or unloaded firearms, BB guns, Airsoft, starter pistols, simulated guns (hand in coat pocket) and realistic looking toy guns.



Does that make a difference in California? I am serious. If you try to rob a 7/11 in Houston with a fake gun that would fool most people and the Iranian behind the counter (that the robber did not know was ex-SAVAK and misses his soldering iron and earplugs) goes completely batshit and unloads 5 12 guage loads of 00 buck into the robber, the police will tend to say "any reasonable person would have thought that they were in fear for their life".

EDIT:

On a similar topic, when you get your CHL in Texas, all of my friends and I were told to shoot until the person is no longer a threat and every one of the instructors said that "no longer a threat" meant "on the ground and not moving". Essentially, empty a magazine into the guy if you can shoot fast enough, then reload and see if he tries to get up. I have heard this for years from police as well (from police that were annoyed at the suggestion because they carried .45s and didn't feel that they needed more than one or two shots under all but the strangest situations). Would that increase the possibility of prosecution in California? Is that why this joker is still breathing?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:06:33 AM EDT
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