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Posted: 5/27/2001 5:28:55 AM EDT
DAAAAAMMMMNNNN they are lite. Does anyone shoot/own one? how are they? Would you go for the type19 or type20 Curious? Do they hold up to some real shootin? or are they as fragile as they seem? Thanks
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 5:48:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 6:57:32 AM EDT
Hey I'm interested too. Please reply if you have any experience with these.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:06:12 AM EDT
The suspence is killin me! Anyone. Me and bburns are diein here...Don't make me begg!
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:07:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 7:06:30 AM EDT by Firepower]
Holy crap I gradgiated to a senior HOOORRRAAAAA! Now what's the next level of exitement?
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:12:19 AM EDT
If your going to buy one get the 97 or 97S. I have the 97 and mine is extremely reliable. Recoil is not any more than the standard ar-15. Accurarcy is on par with the ar's.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:13:36 AM EDT
Don't know alot about them but I was considering buying one last year . I did a little research here and other places and in almost every case found problems with this weapon . Most people who owned it reported constant malfunctions and reliability problems. Further there was some problems getting it fixed from the manufacturer. From what I understand much of the problem was coming from the Bolt , the company then redesigned it making it much stronger . Hope this was some help .
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:18:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:19:37 AM EDT
OK here we go agian.I actually own a type 97.I shot 1040 rounds of early PMC without one misfeed or ejetion problem.It broke an extractor on the first round of wolf.They replaced it promtly.I was wondering if it was the gun or ammo.I shot 9 rounds of wolf before it broke the extractor agian.No more wolf ammo in this gun.This takes a standard AR extractor and will be replacing it with one of these.I asked if they would like to look at the last extractor as I had both pieces.They said they would apreciate it.I think they might be a little brittle because of the hard chrome.There are a few people here with legitamate gripes.There are more with just wanting to knock a rifle they have never fired or even held. Same thing if you have one but didnt contact the company to see if they could help.All parts inter change in the triiger group the extractor is the same.The bolt also looks the same but Im not shure as I dont have a comparrison.The carrier is diffrent as is the buffer and spring.The carrier can be replaced with a standard and the stock with a fixed collapsable according to one person here.i know the rear reciever threads are the same.i like mine and think i will always keep it.It weighs 4lbs even with a empty mag and tasco optima.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:25:03 AM EDT
I've replied to many CAR-15 topics... I'm a FORMER owner of a type 21 rifle. I had feeding and extraction problems.. Just search some of the older topcs on this gun... Some guys have no trouble with them, other guys have nothing but trouble. Buy at your own risk... Seems some of the earlier mfg. guns had problems...and the newer ones don't. Mine was mfg'd in 2001 and still gave me grief... The ultra-light weight & skinny buttstock are good for a nice broomstick jab in the shoulder... Real nice "looking" gun though... I replaced mine with a 20" Bushmaster and an AK-47...Both these guns were new, and shot 100%... "out of the box" Probably have put over 1000+ rounds through them without a single failure... I'm sure you will see an equal amount of happy and unhapy CAR-15 owners... Just my 2 cents...
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:13:59 AM EDT
The toss of a coin will decied.Thanks for the help men.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:14:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 8:16:40 AM EDT by warlord]
Here is a review that I found in the NRA’s American Rifleman July 2000, page 51. I don’t have a scanner, but I will try to hand key this in as best I can. I can see that you don’t belong to the NRA, or you would have seen this article. I urge everyone to join the NRA, I don’t believe in them 100%, but being a member can go a long way in protecting our 2nd Amendment rights, and ensure that rifles like the Carbon 15 will be available to civilians in the future. The American Rifleman magazine is a real authority on firearms. Contact the NRA at 800/672-3888 or at www.nra.org. It will be the best money spent. ===== PROFESSIONAL ORDNANCE CARBON 15 TYPE 97 RIFLE Founded in 1996, Professional Ordnance Inc has developed a high-quality, innovative line of .223 Rem.-cal semi-automatic rifles and pistols using modern carbon fiber technology. Based on a modified Stoner operating system, Professional Ordnance manufactures its firearms entirely in the United States using modern, computer-controlled machining centers. Professional Ordnance promotes its design as a “Modular Weapon System” that can be quickly and easily configured for a wide variety of civilian, law enforcement and military applications Two rifle models and two pistol models comprise the present Professional Ordnance product line. The Type 97 rifle and pistol come equipped with quick detachable compensators on their muzzles and fluted stainless steel barrels. The less expensive Type 20 rifle and pistol are equipped with smooth contour barrels with no provision for a muzzle device. We received a Model 97 rifle for test and evaluation. Carbon fiber composites should not be confused with polymer technology. Carbon fiber technology is a recent spin-off from the aerospace industry. Advanced aircraft and spacecraft designs demanded lightweight, heat-resistant materials of very high strength. In answer to those requirements, carbon fiber technology was developed in the 1960s. Carbon fiber composites are resistant to most chemical solvents and will not rust, chip, crack, or peel. However, the technology of molding and shaping carbon fiber into the desired parts to appropriate tolerances took several decades to develop. Professional Ordnance brough carbon fiber technology to firearms manufacture. Here it must be noted, that is not the same as adding carbon fiber to laminated synthetic stocks or using carbon fiber to reinforce gun barrels. Professional Ordnance rifles and pistols are made with carbon fiber composite upper and lower receivers, recoil buffer assemblies, fore-ends and butt stocks. The bolts and bolt carriers are mode of heat-treated hard-chrome-plated steel. Carbon 15 rifles and pistols are equipped with stainless steel barrels button rifled with six grooves and a compromised twist of rate of 1:9”, which will stabilize bullets weighing up to about 70 grs. Although there are no sights on Carbon 15 rifles, both models have detachable, aluminum alloy Weaver-style rails for mounting optical sights. The uninformed may make the false claim that the carbon fiber frame of the Carbon 15 makes it “invisible to metal detectors”—as they did with the introduction of polymer-frame handguns. We photographed the Carbon 15 Type 97 through an X-ran machine to demonstrate that such a claim would be ludicrous. The majority of the Type 97’s internal parts are of steel and would be readily detected—provided the machine is turned on and the operator awake.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:17:04 AM EDT
Ergonomics feature prominently in many features of the Type 97 rifle. For example, the detachable black rubber pistol grip has three finder grooves as well as a stippled outer surface to provide a secure grip. While somewhat radical in appearance, he oval for-end actually is quite comfortable. The sight rail offer plenty of latitude for scope mounting, allowing the user to achieve the most comfortable scope position. Examples of the modularity of Carbon 15 rifles abound. The skeletonized butt stock can be quickly detached by rotating a lever on the left side of the receiver. The muzzle compensator device can be dismounted by simply pulling upward on the lock ring on its base and a replacement snapped into place without tools. A well-designed sling assembly quickly attaches to holes in the fore-end and butt stock when needed. Mounts for a laser or flashlight readily attach ot the barrel by clamping in the flutes. The scope rail for mounting optical sights has a true-zero feature that enables the user to retain the scope setting when the scope is removed then reattached. We tested that feature by detaching the scope rail and then re-attaching it. We found the zero unchanged. One of the first things one notices when picking up a Carbon 15 rifle is the extraordinarily lightweight. The bare rifle without a magazine or Weaver scope rail weights a mere 3 lbs., 15 ozs. Even with the rail and empty magazine, it weights just 4 lbs. 7 ozs.—approximately 36 percent lighter than a typical AR-15. We found the center of balance to be just under the pistol grip, which felt nearly ideal for the weight. Steps employed by Professional Ordnance to reduce weight include the manufacture of a barrel that is both abnormally short, at 16 1/8”, and fluted. These two factors have an obvious effect on muzzle velocity and accuracy, so we paid particular attention to them in our testing. The accompanying table shows the actual muzzle velocities achieved with various loads. We found the barrel had mildly detrimental effect on muzzle velocity. For lightweight bullets with catalog muzzle velocities taken for 24” barrels, the average loss was approximately 10 to 12 percent. The loss with heavier bullets was closer to 4 percent. Another factor made itself felt in firing the Type 97—the self-damping characteristics of carbon fiber. We found the recoil of the Type 97 rifle quite different from the AR-15. After the initial shock of firing, aftershocks fade more quickly than in AR-15 rifles. We also fired it with and without the muzzle brake. While recoil was only slightly higher without the brake, muzzle rise was noticeably worse. The muzzle brakes works well to keep the Type 07’s muzzle rise under control. Accuracy of the Type 97 with lighter weight bullets proved comparable to other AR-15 type rifles we have tested. That is to say five-shot groups of about 1.6” extreme spread at 100 yards. Accuracy with the heavy 68-gr. Match bullets was not as good, which we attribute to the very short barrel. In firing the Type 97 fo accuracy, we found it particularly necessary to adopt a tight hold for best results due to he very light weight of the rifle. In this connection, we found the pull of the butt stock slightly short, however with a heavy coat it would be about right.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:17:51 AM EDT
As we function fired the Type 97, heat rapidly built up inside the fore-end. However, the carbon fiber construction of the fore-end did not transmit the heat keeping the entire unit comfortable to hold. As carbon fiber construction is relatively new to the firearms manufacture, we fire more than the usual number of rounds to test the Carbon 15’s durability and functional reliability. Our testing included loads with bullet weights from 40 to 69 grs. Covering all major brands, such as Winchester, Federal, Remington, PMC/El Dorado, and Black Hills. We experienced no malfunctions throughout a session which a total of several hundred rounds was fired, which is reliable performance. The Type 97 rifle comes with one 30-round magazine of molded plastic. During our test, we tried standard AR-15 metal magazines in the type 97 and found they worked perfectly. To test the resistance of the carbon fiber receiver to various solvents and oils, we applied samples of a wide variety of those in the NRA Technical Staff’s shop to the Carbon 15 rifle. None appeared to have any observable effect. We also tried methyl alcohol and gasoline with no effect. For camping, backpacking and other outdoor activities, the lightweight and strength of the Carbon 15 Type 97 rifle can be a real advantage. For boat owners who must wage a constant battle with corrosion, the Type 97 should offer nearly total corrosion resistance. For aircraft owners, the modular construction and lightweight of the Type 97 make it an idea choice as a survival gun. Law enforcement will appreciate he low maintenance, compact dimensions and modular construction that make the Type 97 compatible with limited space in modern patrol cars. In addition we found the Carbon 15 Type 97 eminently suitable for shooters of smaller stature who appreciated the he short pull of the stock, lightweight and the low recoil. Thus, we can recommend the Type 97 rifle for a wider variety of applications than may be initially apparent. Professional Ordnance, Inc.(Dept AR) 1070 Metric Drive Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403 520/505-2420 Suggested Retail:$1,700
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:05:09 AM EDT
I own one. I have had numerous problems with it, but thier customer service has been first-rate. Broke a bolt and extractor, which were promptly replaced. Now it bent the gas tube... I still have no idea how it did that, so it's awaiting it's return to the shop. I've heard of others who've had good experiences with them, but mine has seldom worked well, hopefully when it comes back this time it'll work fine. I love the idea of it, as carbon fiber is awesome durable stuff and is not fragile at all, but I haven't had much success. See my new thread.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 10:04:24 AM EDT
The Carbon-15 (s) are great products. The have had some early problems, and have worked them out. Thay are great people. See my post the "Professional Ordnance factory tour" I highly recommend the Type 97S rifle. Jack
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 10:16:46 AM EDT
I had numerous ftf, fte, and severely bent cartridges. The problems are supposedly fixed, but if it were me spending the money, I would tell the gun shop owner you know of past problems and would buy it only after a range session to prove reliability.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 11:20:48 AM EDT
This is from a post Jim Crews made on [AR15-L] on 3-28. I didn't ask him, but I don't think he'll mind me reposting it (Sans email, & other info). "[Tactics] CARBON 15 Warning! I have been testing a Carbon 15 Type 97S rifle for the past two days. The rifle has failed my testing. The rifle sporadically fails to eject 1-10 rounds. We tested and trouble shot the rifle, checking all things we could. Our finding indicates that the charging handle moves out of the latched position during recoil, retarding the bolt carrier preventing it from fully extracting the spent round, sometimes turning it a full 180 degrees and inserting it backwards in the chamber. The charging handle will in fact hit you in the nose, as it travels 3/4 length of travel on recoil. The failure of the rifle is caused by the latch slot in the upper receiver not being machined square, it is in fact rounded, allowing the latch to slip its hold during recoil. The charging handle will contact your nose, and could hook a nostril causing severe injury as well as the fact that eye injuries may occur. This is the undisclosed common failure involved with the Carbon 15 rifle and pistol that has not previously been diagnosed or released to the owners of these rifles. I think Professional Ordnance should perform a national safety recall on these rifles as the malfunctions and the failure of the latch is a serious defect in the design of the rifle."
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:57:46 PM EDT
I've never had the charging handle on mine fly back when shooting, not to say that it couldn't happen. But LOTS of FTF, FTE probs...
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