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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/28/2005 2:10:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:18:04 AM EDT by ScaryBlackGuns]
Okay guys, I am writing my latest dispatch from the counter of the coffee shop in a Western Nebraska truck stop. Unfortunately, I am stuck here for a couple of hours because my girlfriend's car has broken down on the interstate. The tow truck driver has told me that the timing belt on the car has broken.

The car is a 1999 Acura Integra so I know that it may be seriously screwed. However, when the engine shut down I heard no noises that told me the engine was destroying itself. I did try to start it before I knew what was wrong, but again I heard nothing that sounded like pistons hitting valves.

My question: Is there anyway that I will get out of this situation for a reasonable amount of money? I know that the timing belt replacement alone can easily top a grand, but if more has gone wrong what am I looking at?

I could also use some entertainment while I wait here in BFE for the GF to arrive.

Thanks,
SBG
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:19:00 PM EDT
Expect bent valves, interference engine, possibly cracked pistons, if not, be very thankful.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:20:42 PM EDT
I think you would be better off if it caught fire and burned to the ground.


Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:21:17 PM EDT
Brace yourself:


Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:22:56 PM EDT
It depends. There are some engines in which the valves will never hit the pistons, no matter what happens to the timing (relatively short valve travel, and plenty of piston clearance). If you have one of those, then they'll just have to put a new timing belt on and reset the timing.

On the other hand, if it isn't one of those engines, then there is going to be major engine damage. How major depends partly on what was happening when the belt broke, and how lucky you are. At worst, you might need to rebuild the engine. At best, new valves.

Of course, this also depends on if the tow truck driver was right. Diagnosing car problems isn't easy, and there are lots of tow truck drivers who aren't too smart.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:23:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Brace yourself:


www.byz.org/~aether/bman01/ian-hammering.jpg



WTF????

SBG

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:25:09 PM EDT
I'd bet you're ok. I've had a couple of timing belts go out, and, it's been a (Relativly) easy fix.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:25:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mace:
It depends. There are some engines in which the valves will never hit the pistons, no matter what happens to the timing (relatively short valve travel, and plenty of piston clearance). If you have one of those, then they'll just have to put a new timing belt on and reset the timing.

On the other hand, if it isn't one of those engines, then there is going to be major engine damage. How major depends partly on what was happening when the belt broke, and how lucky you are. At worst, you might need to rebuild the engine. At best, new valves.

Of course, this also depends on if the tow truck driver was right. Diagnosing car problems isn't easy, and there are lots of tow truck drivers who aren't too smart.



They ARE interference engines BTW. Always change a hondas/acuras timing belt according to schedule, you cannot let it go. $$$$$$$$
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:26:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Expect bent valves, interference engine, possibly cracked pistons, if not, be very thankful.



Happened to me on my Isuzu..

I GLADLY paid my mech. the 565.00 to replace the belt on my Honda before it was time on this car.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:26:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Brace yourself:


www.byz.org/~aether/bman01/ian-hammering.jpg



WTF????

SBG

Thanks!



It more than likely wont be cheap, easy, nor quick.

Hopefully the hammering wont be too bad.

It sucks getting stuck on the road.

Sorry dud. I had the same thing happen to me on my 87 INtegra.

Needed pistons, a few valves, and the head machined. Cost a pretty penny.

Your's might not be that bad.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:28:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By mace:
It depends. There are some engines in which the valves will never hit the pistons, no matter what happens to the timing (relatively short valve travel, and plenty of piston clearance). If you have one of those, then they'll just have to put a new timing belt on and reset the timing.

On the other hand, if it isn't one of those engines, then there is going to be major engine damage. How major depends partly on what was happening when the belt broke, and how lucky you are. At worst, you might need to rebuild the engine. At best, new valves.

Of course, this also depends on if the tow truck driver was right. Diagnosing car problems isn't easy, and there are lots of tow truck drivers who aren't too smart.



They ARE interference engines BTW. Always change a hondas/acuras timing belt according to schedule, you cannot let it go. $$$$$$$$



Our mechanic told us to change the belt at 90k-100k nd I knew this to be the Honda dnager zone. Unfortuately, this belt let go at 85,000. I was planning on taking it end at the beginning of next month for a little preventative maintenance.

Fuck me...
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:28:32 PM EDT
if you heard really bad noises then you are looking at a new engine. Find a good low milage used one. Don;t let them rebuild it cause a salvage yard will give you a used for for really cheap.


I dropped a valve in a race truck i had and cracked the cylinder. I shelved it but rebuilt it later fora daily driver. In your engine the damage will be significant though becuase of how many valves and the complicated valvetrain.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:29:38 PM EDT
Are those non-interference engines?

If so, you might be OK...


Well, my last trip though NE abruptly ended in Kearny when, I made the mistake of letting my buddy drive...(we were going cross country).
Less than 30 min. later, he looses control and rolls the truck about 4 times.
We were both wearing seatbelts, so we came out OK. (considering!)

The dog was in the bed, along with all our stuff. We usually chained him to the recently installed
roll bar, (best $50 I EVER SPENT!!) but for some reason, we forgot to that day...
It is the only reason we all survived. He would have likely been attached the whole time...

Truck was pretty demolished, but it kept us alive. it was the closest to death I had ever been.

So I guess things could be worse for ya'!



(not the most exciting story, but you said you needed something to read!)

I hope things work out for you...let us know how things pan out!
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:31:35 PM EDT
my mother in law had that happen on her 93 probe (dohc 16v mazda engine) rest the timing and replaced the belt all was ok. I'm hoping for the best for you.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:51:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By mace:
It depends. There are some engines in which the valves will never hit the pistons, no matter what happens to the timing (relatively short valve travel, and plenty of piston clearance). If you have one of those, then they'll just have to put a new timing belt on and reset the timing.

On the other hand, if it isn't one of those engines, then there is going to be major engine damage. How major depends partly on what was happening when the belt broke, and how lucky you are. At worst, you might need to rebuild the engine. At best, new valves.

Of course, this also depends on if the tow truck driver was right. Diagnosing car problems isn't easy, and there are lots of tow truck drivers who aren't too smart.



They ARE interference engines BTW. Always change a hondas/acuras timing belt according to schedule, you cannot let it go. $$$$$$$$



Our mechanic told us to change the belt at 90k-100k nd I knew this to be the Honda dnager zone. Unfortuately, this belt let go at 85,000. I was planning on taking it end at the beginning of next month for a little preventative maintenance.

Fuck me...



Bud, 60K or 5 years on a Honda ALWAYS, I Do not care what the book says. 60K is the milage, honda will not change it as it increases the costs associated with ownership and they are ducking the true cost. Sucks bro.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:17:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:26:14 AM EDT by ScaryBlackGuns]
UPDATE: I talked with the mechanic in the small town where I left the car. He told me that the timing belt did break, but that he believes that it was caused by the water pump shoot craps. He says that we will not know about the engine until he gets the timing belt and water pump replaced in a couple of days. Once those repairs are done he will compression test the engine to determine if there is internal damage.

New Question: Is this the right POA? I have been told by the locals that I can trust this guy not to screw me, but I am supervising work that is being done 150 miles from home. Apparently, the guy is from Colorado and is very familiar with Hondas unlike most of the mechanics in the town who will not touch it. I am just concerned about potentially getting charged for some of the same labor twice if they have to pull the head and begin rebuilding the top-half of the engine.

In all, I trust the guy. He could have put the screws to me quick, but he has quoted me $450 for the water pump and timing belt! I damn near fell off my chair, but decided to be thankful for small town labor rates. I am familiar with the what a poker player would call the slow-play so I am still guarded about the potential engine issues.

SBG

Edit - Typos
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:21:49 AM EDT
I didn't get the timing belt on my Honda changed until about 115K miles. Guess I dodged a bullet.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:30:59 AM EDT
If the mechanic "Knows Hondas" he should be able to tell you whether the engine has bent valves froma timing belt break. I also would ask how a failing water pump caused a timing belt to break.

If he's an expert, he should be able to tell you right away what would casue this scenario.

I hate to say it but I'm smelling some BS in all this on the mechanic's part. Timing belt went in a 95 Civic EX I used to have and it was just the belt that needed replacing, no damage to the valves. Dealership mechanic said it was designed to ensure no damage as this was common in the early 80's but manufacturers had addressed the problem in all but high end performce cars where valve lift was excessive.

If I were you I'd call a local Acura dealership and ask to talk to a mechanic and see what he has to say.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:33:49 AM EDT
Is it a good POA? Perhaps, but I don't know Honda engines that well.

If he puts the belt back on and does a compression check, he'll be able to tell if a valve is bent - it won't close, and the compression would be nill. If everything is ok, then you're on your way. He COULD pull the head and inspect the valves & pistons, but this requires more labor and a new head gasket. On the other hand (and this is where my lack of Honda knowledge comes in), if he puts on a new belt and discovers that the valves are bent by doing a compression check, he MIGHT (I dunno) have to pull the timing belt back off before he can remove the head, meaning more labor since he has to do the timing belt twice.

Any other thoughts?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:40:19 AM EDT
That's why I prefer vehicles with a timing chain. Very seldom do you ever hear about a chain breaking. MJD
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:44:24 AM EDT
Honda/Acura bend valves pretty easily, so I would expect at least that much.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:57:37 AM EDT
Timing belt failed in my '93 lumina last month. $584 and change to replace the belt and a pulley that failed.

Parts were about $130 total, the rest was labor, and having stopped by and seen the amount of crap they had to remove/re-install I'm surprised it wasn't MORE.

Oh, and according to one of their shop references, the engine was a freewheeling engine. According to another of their shop references, it was an interference engine. So it was a "wait and see" situation, and apparently I either got REALLY lucky, or the engine isn't an interference engine.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:17:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darwindog:
If the mechanic "Knows Hondas" he should be able to tell you whether the engine has bent valves froma timing belt break. I also would ask how a failing water pump caused a timing belt to break.



If his Honda engine drives the water pump from the timing belt like modern Chrysler 4cyl engines, then that explains it.

And, on an interference engine, I would always pull the head, remove the valves, and check the valves for damage. If you don't, the only way to check the valves is to install a new timing belt and do a leakdown test. Since it is probable that you've tweaked at least a few valves, then you get to remove the timing belt and undo all the work you just did, to go fix the valve.

There's no other reliable way I know of to test valves. You either spin them and check for runout with a dial, or you do a compression test and hope that a good result means you really didn't touch valves--rather than you just got lucky with the way they were tweaked.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:29:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By darwindog:
If the mechanic "Knows Hondas" he should be able to tell you whether the engine has bent valves froma timing belt break. I also would ask how a failing water pump caused a timing belt to break.



If his Honda engine drives the water pump from the timing belt like modern Chrysler 4cyl engines, then that explains it.

And, on an interference engine, I would always pull the head, remove the valves, and check the valves for damage. If you don't, the only way to check the valves is to install a new timing belt and do a leakdown test. Since it is probable that you've tweaked at least a few valves, then you get to remove the timing belt and undo all the work you just did, to go fix the valve.

There's no other reliable way I know of to test valves. You either spin them and check for runout with a dial, or you do a compression test and hope that a good result means you really didn't touch valves--rather than you just got lucky with the way they were tweaked.

Jim



Righto.
On most if not all Honda engines the timing belt does drive the water pulley. I have had a belt break twice on an 88 honda 1.5 liter(brothers) 2X, a 96 Honda 1.6 liter (brother's again)1X and I have replaced the belt on 2 or 3 Hondas in the family. Usually the job runs about 400-600 dollars locally (top end of quote being dealerships), but I do it to save money and piddle with mechanics.
All the aforementioned times, the valves were not warped as far as I could tell, and finding TDC, and setting the timing isn't that hard (I did say I had done it, so it couldn't be too hard).

I am hoping that it wasn't an interference engine, and if it is the 1.8 liter, I don't think it is. Those engines are pretty much bulletproof, anyway.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:30:05 PM EDT
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