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Posted: 7/30/2009 3:58:47 PM EST
Out of curiosity, how do you peoples with socialized medicine feel about your nation's respective healthcare systems? Those who respond, please share any personal experiences, what country you're from, etc. With the commonly parroted line of "XXX hate their national healthcare", I want to see how ARFCOM's admittedly small sample population feels.

My fellow Americans: Please stay out unless you have first hand experience dealing with such systems unless you're going to have meaningful and respectful discussion.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:01:23 PM EST
I had it for 10 years while in uniform. It SUCKED.

Now try it with 300 million people and no command structure to maintain discipline.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:01:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 4:09:51 PM EST by refurb]
I lived in Canada for the first 25 years of my life.

What is the health care like? Not that bad, if you've never experienced any other system.

Pluses: No co-pays, no out of pocket expenses at all (except for Rx and dental). Some provinces have premiums (basically another tax) on a sliding scale. It's nice to never have to worry about health insurance at all. (of course the tax rate is probably ~10% higher than in the US).

Cons: Health care is rationed! Back when I was younger, it was better. No real problem finding a doctor or much much of a waiting list for surgery. Not so much now. If you want orthopedic surgery now, you could be waiting a year or more. A lot of places have a shortage of doctors. Hospitals are often dated (having being built in the 1980s and never really updated).

So basically, most Canadians love it because they've never had anything else.

I think a lot of American's wouldn't like it because it would be a big step down for a lot of Americans.

RF
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:04:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By refurb:
I lived in Canada for the first 25 years of my life.

What is the health care like? Not that bad, if you've never experienced any other system.

No co-pays, no out of pocket expenses at all (except for Rx and dental). Some provinces have premiums (basically another tax) on a sliding scale.


If you don't mind, could you get a little more specific. What services did you utilize? What treatement did you need?
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:06:08 PM EST
Broken...The NHS was an utter joke...I cant imagine how much worse it has gotten since I left the UK back in '91
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:06:11 PM EST
All of those that have negative experiences are dead.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:09:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARLady:
Originally Posted By refurb:
I lived in Canada for the first 25 years of my life.

What is the health care like? Not that bad, if you've never experienced any other system.

No co-pays, no out of pocket expenses at all (except for Rx and dental). Some provinces have premiums (basically another tax) on a sliding scale.


If you don't mind, could you get a little more specific. What services did you utilize? What treatement did you need?


Myself personally? Doctor visits. I had surgery when I was a teenager. Pretty typical experience. Visited my family doc, scheduled surgery, stayed in the hospital for a night and went home. The care was excellent and went off without a hitch.

My immediate family members have had a lot more experience.

For example, my mother needs her knees replaced. She was looking at a wait of at least one year for surgery. The province she lives in has recently tried a new system which reduced the wait to ~4 months now. She has an excellent doctor who is trained in the latest surgical techniques.

RF
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:09:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By refurb:
I lived in Canada for the first 25 years of my life.

What is the health care like? Not that bad, if you've never experienced any other system.

Pluses: No co-pays, no out of pocket expenses at all (except for Rx and dental). Some provinces have premiums (basically another tax) on a sliding scale. It's nice to never have to worry about health insurance at all.

Cons: Health care is rationed! Back when I was younger, it was better. No real problem finding a doctor or much much of a waiting list for surgery. Not so much now. If you want orthopedic surgery now, you could be waiting a year or more. A lot of places have a shortage of doctors. Hospitals are often dated (having being built in the 1980s and never really updated).

So basically, most Canadians love it because they've never had anything else.

I think a lot of American's wouldn't like it because it would be a big step down for a lot of Americans.

RF



Everytime I turn around one of the local hospital groups is adding on, updating, refurbishing, etc. I have no doubt this contributes to the cost of health care in some small way. But I can only imagine the backlash of most Americans at walking into a hospital decked out in 1980's technology and told, "Yeah, this is it. You wanted low-cost health care. Here it is."
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:10:18 PM EST
Thinking of my brother's multiple 18 month waits for corrective plastic surgery for his cleft lip and palate. Looks like 2 years for my dad to get a hip replacement.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:15:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARLady:
Everytime I turn around one of the local hospital groups is adding on, updating, refurbishing, etc. I have no doubt this contributes to the cost of health care in some small way. But I can only imagine the backlash of most Americans at walking into a hospital decked out in 1980's technology and told, "Yeah, this is it. You wanted low-cost health care. Here it is."


Well, it's not so much the technology, it is updated. It doesn't show up nearly as quick as the US or in as big a number. For example, the Mohs surgery for skin cancer. My grandfather had skin cancer on his face and his doctor was trained in the Mohs technique to remove it. He was the only doctor in a city of 1 million trained in it.

I live in Eastern CT right now. My dermatologist serves a town of 10K, maybe 50K in a 10 mile radius and he does it. (This was all about the same time period).

When I said hospitals weren't updated, I was thinking more along the lines of the infrastructure. I went with my Mom to an appointment at one of the three major hospitals in the city (of 1 million) and it was apparent the paint on the walls was at least 15 years old. It kind of reminded me of the old building at my university.

Almost all the hospitals/clinics I've been to in the US looked either brand new or at the most 5 years old since the last renovation.

RF
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:17:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Thinking of my brother's multiple 18 month waits for corrective plastic surgery for his cleft lip and palate. Looks like 2 years for my dad to get a hip replacement.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


We can infer from your username that you're presumably a Canadian but could you let us know what system you're talking about in posts?
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:19:57 PM EST
I left Canada when I was young but we still have plenty of family up there.

Up until my Grandfather died, my aunt was on his insurance. She would drive down to Ohio with her kids to get treated because she was not happy with the Government system. Now that my grandfather is no longer alive, they are enjoying nice waits and government BS.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:40:04 PM EST
I was going to post about my experience, but I just do not feel like it. There are articles about people who have died in the ambulance, after waiting hours and being rejected by various hospitals multiple times. Emergency room visit by a friends child, had a swollen eye(really swollen, the eye was huge, and the skin around it swelled up and closed it off, it was freaky), forgot the hokensho, and was rejected not because of that, but because they did not have anyone to deal with an eye problem. Was told to go to an eye doctor the next day.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:46:25 PM EST
It is teh lame.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:53:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By DesuDurDesu:
I was going to post about my experience, but I just do not feel like it. There are articles about people who have died in the ambulance, after waiting hours and being rejected by various hospitals multiple times. Emergency room visit by a friends child, had a swollen eye(really swollen, the eye was huge, and the skin around it swelled up and closed it off, it was freaky), forgot the hokensho, and was rejected not because of that, but because they did not have anyone to deal with an eye problem. Was told to go to an eye doctor the next day.


In Japan?
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:01:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 5:05:31 PM EST by skankwhisperer]
Good and bad.

See Australia has socialised Health care, but also PRIVATE insurance. Private coverage is reasonably affordable. There are tax incentives to get private cover, and most upper middle and above wage earners have it. My health coverage for me and my partner is around $150 a month. Extensive coverage, but we've never really needed it besides dental and glasses.

So this is superior i believe to the Canadian" all in" style of Health.

My best friends wife went to hospital last weekend. She had a gynaecological thing goin on. She was a public patient. Rocked up at ER lunchtime Sat, was quickly seen by specialist that arvo and was in and out of surgery by 8'oclock that night. She had a private room with an on suite. I was stunned when she told me the story of how well everything went for her. Not every story you hear about socialised care is bad.

But Australia has a small population, and we set up out system a long time ago. Im not sure when, but sometime between 1940's and 1970.

The US has no chance of replicating our health system and should avoid the path of Socialised health, it will never work. But Australias does.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:05:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 5:23:20 PM EST by DesuDurDesu]
Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Originally Posted By DesuDurDesu:
I was going to post about my experience, but I just do not feel like it. There are articles about people who have died in the ambulance, after waiting hours and being rejected by various hospitals multiple times. Emergency room visit by a friends child, had a swollen eye(really swollen, the eye was huge, and the skin around it swelled up and closed it off, it was freaky), forgot the hokensho, and was rejected not because of that, but because they did not have anyone to deal with an eye problem. Was told to go to an eye doctor the next day.


In Japan?


Yes. To be honest, its the elderly that are taking up all the resources on top of the government interference and planning.

ETA:

My wife had to go to an ER before, called the emergency number and explained the symptoms, ambulance crew gets to the home I think within 20 minutes. Anyways, before going anywhere they were on the phone to a hospital, got there after 20 minutes and wife went into the ER. The waiting room had quite a few people I think, most of them were elderly people. Turns out what I thought had been a heart attack was a severe panic attack. Wife was prescribed Paxil I think, but other drugs and tests were used and conducted in the ER. The amount of time was around 4 hours total, but my memory is not good. The cost of the ambulance was 5 000 yen, the medication was around that amount too I believe- I think it all added up to around 12-14,000 yen- so around a 120-140 dollars. I think we got half of that back too. This was a few years ago.

Also, taxes are high. And I would expect taxes and fees to increase until the country falls off a cliff. The "consumption" tax gets alot of mention, about the need to raise it, on top of other various taxes.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:13:36 PM EST
You where given facts in your other thread you didnt finish.

of course it didnt fit your beliefs so you start another thread asking for anecdotal evidence.



Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Here's some stats recently published in The Investors Business Daily (although various sources cite slight variations to these depending on the year of study, the trend is clear and consistent)

In the US, 93% of those diagnosed with diabetes receive their first treatment within six months. In Canada, only 43% do. And in England, only 15% do.

In the US, 77% of patients waiting to see a medical specialist are seen by one within four weeks. In Canada, 43% are, and in England 40% needing a medical specialist seen by one within four weeks.

In the US, there are 71 MRI/CT machines per million people. In Canada there are 18 per million. And in England, there are 14 per million.

In the US, the 5-year survival rate for leukemia is about 50%. In Europe, it is 35%.

In the US, the survival rate for prostate cancer is 81%. In France, it is 62%. And in England, it's 44%.


Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:28:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 5:37:25 PM EST by DesuDurDesu]
I might as well add that I might go get a health check up within the month- I do not want to go, but if I do, I will post about it, and the costs.

ETA:

Use google:

Dies after being rejected hospitals japan

Use that for the search for news articles, or just search. These are the cases that made the news.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:29:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By DesuDurDesu:
Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Originally Posted By DesuDurDesu:
I was going to post about my experience, but I just do not feel like it. There are articles about people who have died in the ambulance, after waiting hours and being rejected by various hospitals multiple times. Emergency room visit by a friends child, had a swollen eye(really swollen, the eye was huge, and the skin around it swelled up and closed it off, it was freaky), forgot the hokensho, and was rejected not because of that, but because they did not have anyone to deal with an eye problem. Was told to go to an eye doctor the next day.


In Japan?


Yes. To be honest, its the elderly that are taking up all the resources on top of the government interference and planning.

ETA:

My wife had to go to an ER before, called the emergency number and explained the symptoms, ambulance crew gets to the home I think within 20 minutes. Anyways, before going anywhere they were on the phone to a hospital, got there after 20 minutes and wife went into the ER. The waiting room had quite a few people I think, most of them were elderly people. Turns out what I thought had been a heart attack was a severe panic attack. Wife was prescribed Paxil I think, but other drugs and tests were used and conducted in the ER. The amount of time was around 4 hours total, but my memory is not good. The cost of the ambulance was 5 000 yen, the medication was around that amount too I believe- I think it all added up to around 12-14,000 yen- so around a 120-140 dollars. I think we got half of that back too. This was a few years ago.


Obama's idea for the elderly is manditory evaluations on end of life issues every 5 years. Meaning if they get real sick and need more intensive care then they will be given "other options" or as I call it....euthenasia. So he plans on saving money by killing them through denial of care. All is good though, just don't get sick and don't grow old.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:36:46 PM EST
I lucked out in life, never had any major surgeries, excellent teeth, no dental problems, and I am in great health. When I was younger I had surgery to fix a hernia and it went off fairly good, no major problems getting in or getting any attention.

However now days we have a major shortage of doctors. My family doctor has headed to the US where he can make more money, but I have a new one now. The nursing unions are a major problem. Every time the govt increases heathcare spending they go on strike to get their fair share (read all) of it. I hate dealing with them, especially ER nurses, as they are rude, demeaning, and argumentative, as they have no concept of customer service and are unlikely to loose their jobs period.

ER rooms are always packed and if you have to go, be prepared to wait. My wife was severly dehydrated from fighting the flu for a week, so I took her to the ER. We waited over five hours just to get an IV into her, she should have been admitted, but they just gave her an IV and then sent us on our way. There were people with broken bones and serious lacerations that were still waiting when we left.

My father in law waited for over a year and a half for simple knee surgery because they could not coordinate an ER nursing staff, surgeon, and anestisiologist at one time to do the surgery.

If you want an MRI, a CAT scan, or anything that is heavy on technology, be prepared to wait up to two years and travel to a major center (For me its 120 miles away) to get it done.

My father had cancer and had to travel to Edmonton (300 miles away) to get treatment, although the follow up was done at home. Right now one of our countrys two nuclear power facilities (essential for production of radioactive isotopes used in cancer treatment) is shut down because of shoddy construction and maintenance, causing a shortage of said essential isotopes.

My mother is undergoing a double masectomy and they are taking over a year and a half to complete all the surgery and reconstruction.

All that said, I have excellent medical coverage from work, but we dont all have medical coverage. In Alberta, you have to pay medical premiums for insurance coverage, if you dont pay, you don't have any coverage period, so it isn't even a universal program as they would have you believe. Although, they are trying to phase this out.








Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:41:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 5:44:37 PM EST by JAD]
In high school, I had a friend from New Foundland (Canada). A few years before his family moved to the US, he tore his ACL. To avoid the lengthy wait for surgery in Canada, his parents brought him to the US and paid out of pocket to have the procedure done.

Similarly, my parents were friends with a couple from the UK. They had a supplementary health insurance plan to expedite the process in case they ever did need any surgery or anything done. Using the supplementary insurance would avoid the government bureacracy involved pre-care. For most routine stuff (physicals, etc...) they thought that the government provided care was sufficient.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:46:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By stealbear:
You where given facts in your other thread you didnt finish.

of course it didnt fit your beliefs so you start another thread asking for anecdotal evidence.



Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Here's some stats recently published in The Investors Business Daily (although various sources cite slight variations to these depending on the year of study, the trend is clear and consistent)

In the US, 93% of those diagnosed with diabetes receive their first treatment within six months. In Canada, only 43% do. And in England, only 15% do.

In the US, 77% of patients waiting to see a medical specialist are seen by one within four weeks. In Canada, 43% are, and in England 40% needing a medical specialist seen by one within four weeks.

In the US, there are 71 MRI/CT machines per million people. In Canada there are 18 per million. And in England, there are 14 per million.

In the US, the 5-year survival rate for leukemia is about 50%. In Europe, it is 35%.

In the US, the survival rate for prostate cancer is 81%. In France, it is 62%. And in England, it's 44%.




When the answers to their questions don't match their expectations or further their agenda; commies simply request a "do over".

That's how pinkos roll.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:49:06 PM EST
My boss is Canadian but has lived in the US for the last decade. His son was in a minor accident and the ER doc advised an MRI. My boss asked when they could schedule it and they told him as son as his son could ride the wheel chair. My boss's brother in Canada had been waiting for an MRI for over 18 months. He came down the next weekend and paid out of pocket.

My boss said he may live in Canada again but if he had anything more serious than a cold he was heading to the USA.

SRM
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:52:57 PM EST
Oh I should add as well, last year in Manitoba, two provinces over from us they had a man die in the ER waiting room. Turns out he had waited over 20 hours for treatment, died, and it was still another 12 hours before anyone noticed that he was dead. Turns out it is a relatively common occurance in larger centers across the country.

I should add, however, that there is widespread abuse of the ER system in Canada, especially from minorities. Natives, for instance, make up 8% of our population, but use up 23% of our medical resourses. Got a problem, they call the ambulance and go to the ER for anything, sniffles, headache (usually from the hangover) or anything. When they want a ride into the city from the reserve, they call the ambulance, it picks them up and then they get to the hospital and refuse treatment, then go drinking. If 911 refuses to dispatch an ambulance, they can be sued.

Private service providers are beginning to catch on up here. Last year a private clinic opened in Calgary, but under our laws they can only perform certain services. I THINK they get around this by transporting patients to the US for surgeries that can't be done up here.

Funny story, two years ago I got laser eye surgery done. I isn't covered so I paid out of pocket. No waiting, we drove to Calgary, got a discount on our accomodations, one day for pre surgery tests, next day did the surgery (15 minutes) waited only 5 minutes to get into the operating room, one more day for post op tests. Staff were cheery and helpful (one nurse even ran and got me a coke while I waited to get into the surgery) Surgeon met with me to dicuss what he was going to do and how he was going to do it (Fantastic guy, spent most of our meeting BSing about hanguns, turns out he was an IDPA shooter). In and out and done, total satisfaction on my end. If this is what for profit medical care is about then sign me up.

Personally I think a public/private model is the best answer, as long as the public side is kept to a minimum, so that the private side can compete with it. You cant expect the private model to work when their competition doesn't have to show a profit, doesn't have to provide customer service, and becomes overrun with unions and massive subsidies.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 6:00:39 PM EST
Let me tell you what it is really like.

My wife has plenty of personal experience in Romania. She left in 1998.

Romania was a fully socialized system that was pure example of Stalinist industrialization and economic management.

Romania is a great case study for socialism as it was largely agrarian prior to the communism, thus it was not “tainted” by other economic systems.

Living the capital they went to the best state hospital in the country and enjoyed universal healthcare.

The care was horrid. Bribes were required to get humane care or medications. Big beautiful hospitals were a great place to go and die.

Her doctor beat her into near unconsciousness and removed her tonsils without any drugs and sent home. She can tell you a million stories.

Her aunt had half of her brain removed and the doctors said “oops”, sorry you were fine. Now she is paralyzed on half her body and living in filth with no recourse as it is impossible to sue the state.

Personally, I have been to many Chinese state hospitals. I have been to the finest hospital in China, the Beijing Naval hospital where Mao died. The misery would bring you to tears.

The dieing babies were the hardest part. Eyes erupting with tumors, scared mothers waiting to see me, long lines, parents holding drugged and unconscious babies waiting for their turn, me knowing most of there babies would soon be dead.... sad.

The eventual outcome of universal healthcare is the same. Rationing, misery, and death.

Just give it enough time and a full implementation and you can experience it too.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 6:16:37 PM EST
It depends, it can range from really good to very poor. If your trying to see a specialist the wait can be very long. If you want to change family doctors the wait for a new one can be 1-1.5 years. The system gets abused by alot of scum that hold our passports yet dont live here, have never lived here , dont pay taxes and only come from overseas when they want free health care then they leave.

It also depends on where you live, some regions are ok where as up north access can be very limited with only a few doctors in the whole area.

Theres pros and cons to it- however we also pay alot more taxes than you guys so its not like its "free". They have added alot of user fees for some services as well over the years.

I think if your not a tax payer or havent paid taxes in your life, are a welfare bum, a junkie or a convict, or are a citizen on conveince you should be left to die.

Sounds abit extreme, but really it would solve alot of the abuses that plague free systems. People dont appreciate what they dont have to pay for.

We had an AIDS conference here locally a couple of years ago. A bunch of scum from Africa came over for the conference- they all had aids. They refused to leave after the conference and claimed refugee status claiming they would die do to poor health care in the home country. So now they are here getting it for free.

I would like to post how I feel about alot of these free loaders- but I probably shouldnt.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 6:21:38 PM EST
I should add that alot depends on where you live again. For example I had to wait about 3 weeks for an MRI. Which was ok- I have heard of some places where they have waited months. Also its not totally socialized across the country. Some areas have 2 tier systems with private care available as well or you can opt into to user paid services.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 6:31:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By refurb:
Originally Posted By ARLady:
Everytime I turn around one of the local hospital groups is adding on, updating, refurbishing, etc. I have no doubt this contributes to the cost of health care in some small way. But I can only imagine the backlash of most Americans at walking into a hospital decked out in 1980's technology and told, "Yeah, this is it. You wanted low-cost health care. Here it is."


Well, it's not so much the technology, it is updated. It doesn't show up nearly as quick as the US or in as big a number. For example, the Mohs surgery for skin cancer. My grandfather had skin cancer on his face and his doctor was trained in the Mohs technique to remove it. He was the only doctor in a city of 1 million trained in it.

I live in Eastern CT right now. My dermatologist serves a town of 10K, maybe 50K in a 10 mile radius and he does it. (This was all about the same time period).

When I said hospitals weren't updated, I was thinking more along the lines of the infrastructure. I went with my Mom to an appointment at one of the three major hospitals in the city (of 1 million) and it was apparent the paint on the walls was at least 15 years old. It kind of reminded me of the old building at my university.

Almost all the hospitals/clinics I've been to in the US looked either brand new or at the most 5 years old since the last renovation.

RF

Out of date lecture buildings in Eastern Connecticut- y.ou sound like a UConner. The hospital you're is Windham, right? I'll agree that they really don't look like they have "updated" much in a while. However, the one time I had to go there for emergancy care, I was treated promptly and very well. I think I could make similar statements about Bradley Memorial (never a patient, have visited) and Bristol Hospital, though Bristol looked like they were renovating last time I had a procedure done there a year ago. New Britain General is constantly being upgraded- great facility.

Link Posted: 7/30/2009 8:25:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By stealbear:
You where given facts in your other thread you didnt finish.

of course it didnt fit your beliefs so you start another thread asking for anecdotal evidence.



Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Here's some stats recently published in The Investors Business Daily (although various sources cite slight variations to these depending on the year of study, the trend is clear and consistent)

In the US, 93% of those diagnosed with diabetes receive their first treatment within six months. In Canada, only 43% do. And in England, only 15% do.

In the US, 77% of patients waiting to see a medical specialist are seen by one within four weeks. In Canada, 43% are, and in England 40% needing a medical specialist seen by one within four weeks.

In the US, there are 71 MRI/CT machines per million people. In Canada there are 18 per million. And in England, there are 14 per million.

In the US, the 5-year survival rate for leukemia is about 50%. In Europe, it is 35%.

In the US, the survival rate for prostate cancer is 81%. In France, it is 62%. And in England, it's 44%.




What other thread? And these "facts" have no sources cited.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:31:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Thinking of my brother's multiple 18 month waits for corrective plastic surgery for his cleft lip and palate. Looks like 2 years for my dad to get a hip replacement.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


We can infer from your username that you're presumably a Canadian but could you let us know what system you're talking about in posts?

Fair enough. Yes, my folks and siblings are still in Canada. I spent the first 30 years of my life there. The reality is that once you get past emergencies, the Canadian health plan starts rationing things harshly. Essentially, if you aren't going to die RIGHT NOW, you get to wait a long time. Things like corrective plastic surgery for birth defects is considered "elective".

Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:37:00 PM EST
And on a related note. While living here in the US, I have had 3 regular doctors. All were Canadian, and younger doctors.
The system limits their income so much that Canadian doctors can't live on it and pay their education loans. Some Canadian doctors stop working part way through the year, as they find themselves unable to make any more income. It actually costs them to keep providing services.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:43:41 PM EST
You convinced yet commie-boy?
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:56:24 PM EST
About 10 years ago I had an incident while trimix diving about 12 miles off the coast. Nearest recompression chamber was about 80 miles away, got airlifted off the boat, received 1st class medical care and didn't pay a single penny.

I have nothing but praise for our NHS although they have to work with a f%*ked up government who always underfund them
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:57:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 9:58:46 PM EST by F22_RaptoR]
I dont like it at all



Its supposed to be this "magical" everybody gets life saving treatments type system. But I dont get any Diabetic supplies. Im a type-1 Diabetic, and without insulin alone, I will die. Plain and simple. YET, I dont even get 1 fucking cent for it.



Ya know what? thats the way I like it though. I just wish I didn't have to spend so much on taxes to get.... nothing.




My mom broke her foot a good 4 years ago. It took over 2.5 years before a docter actually FOUND that the foot was broken. Guy took a look at the original X-ray and said "Ohh well its broke. Look at that!"


4 years now, and she can barely walk. What does she get? nothing. Except having to wait 6-9 months to get an appointment to see someone. Just so they can say "well we cant really do anything"







Waiting lists are excruciatingly long, medical care is not the best quality, and when you look at what actually gets covered, its not that great either


ETA

I remember reading in school that health care was a good.... 30% or so of our federal government spending.... cant confirm that though.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:59:00 PM EST
What do feelings have to do with making rational informed judgements/decisions?

Geez!
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:02:35 PM EST
Liberals are good at ignoring evidence that contradicts their agenda.

You don't think Obama has access to all these facts and more?

HIS rationale is that HE isn't going to do it that way, HE can do it better, HE will be in control so his system won't end up that way.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:03:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I had it for 10 years while in uniform. It SUCKED.

Now try it with 300 million people and no command structure to maintain discipline.

Good luck.


This. I can't wait for everyone who voted for the Kenyan to experiance this.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:14:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARLady:
Originally Posted By refurb:
I lived in Canada for the first 25 years of my life.

What is the health care like? Not that bad, if you've never experienced any other system.

Pluses: No co-pays, no out of pocket expenses at all (except for Rx and dental). Some provinces have premiums (basically another tax) on a sliding scale. It's nice to never have to worry about health insurance at all.

Cons: Health care is rationed! Back when I was younger, it was better. No real problem finding a doctor or much much of a waiting list for surgery. Not so much now. If you want orthopedic surgery now, you could be waiting a year or more. A lot of places have a shortage of doctors. Hospitals are often dated (having being built in the 1980s and never really updated).

So basically, most Canadians love it because they've never had anything else.

I think a lot of American's wouldn't like it because it would be a big step down for a lot of Americans.

RF



Everytime I turn around one of the local hospital groups is adding on, updating, refurbishing, etc. I have no doubt this contributes to the cost of health care in some small way. But I can only imagine the backlash of most Americans at walking into a hospital decked out in 1980's technology and told, "Yeah, this is it. You wanted low-cost health care. Here it is."


The reason this occurs is that most all hospitals in the USA are non-profit ORG's. In order to maintain tax exempt status all profits in excess of operating costs must go towards capital improvements ie new structures.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:15:36 PM EST
although I couldn't really call it first hand experience, I used to work at a diner where a lot of visitors would come from, a lot of the Canadians that came in during the '08 election said we need to try our hardest to prevent nationalized health care from coming here. One was (ironically) was visiting the brand new huge IHC hospital around here.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:19:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Out of curiosity, how do you peoples with socialized medicine feel about your nation's respective healthcare systems? Those who respond, please share any personal experiences, what country you're from, etc. With the commonly parroted line of "XXX hate their national healthcare", I want to see how ARFCOM's admittedly small sample population feels.

My fellow Americans: Please stay out unless you have first hand experience dealing with such systems unless you're going to have meaningful and respectful discussion.


I have had no problems with Australian healthcare. However, I have never had a major injury, I have supplementary private health insurance, and my mum is a doctor, so I can get scripts for antiboitics etc. whenever I need them for free.

I would not be concerned, however, if I just had to rely on Medicare. Unhappy, but I wouldn't be afraid of not being treated, etc. that Americans say Canadians fear.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:21:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By skankwhisperer:
Good and bad.

See Australia has socialised Health care, but also PRIVATE insurance. Private coverage is reasonably affordable. There are tax incentives to get private cover, and most upper middle and above wage earners have it. My health coverage for me and my partner is around $150 a month. Extensive coverage, but we've never really needed it besides dental and glasses.

So this is superior i believe to the Canadian" all in" style of Health.

My best friends wife went to hospital last weekend. She had a gynaecological thing goin on. She was a public patient. Rocked up at ER lunchtime Sat, was quickly seen by specialist that arvo and was in and out of surgery by 8'oclock that night. She had a private room with an on suite. I was stunned when she told me the story of how well everything went for her. Not every story you hear about socialised care is bad.

But Australia has a small population, and we set up out system a long time ago. Im not sure when, but sometime between 1940's and 1970.

The US has no chance of replicating our health system and should avoid the path of Socialised health, it will never work. But Australias does.


The Australian system was set up in the 1970s.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 10:52:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 10:54:12 PM EST by nick1983]
Fucking blows donkey balls.

Ex. My grandmother has skin cancer, she had an appointment to meet with a doctor about it last week, but because there were protests in the city center, the NHS transport could not get to her, so they just cancelled her appointment, and they don't know when they can "fit her in" again.

Fucking cock sucking fucks.

It's ok though it's not like my grandad spent 4 years as a POW in Germany so they could tell his wife, they did not know when could "get around" to taking care of her cancer.

Fucking cuck-sucking fuck bags.

I just got back from the UK and when I get some time I am going to post a thread about my trip and why Socialism blows sweaty ass fucking nut sack. It is pure evil and is a cancer upon the British people.

Nothing fucking works in the country, and no one has any pride in anything, including themselves.

Complete apathy. No one gives a fuck about anything.

So back to the NHS, short of the US defense budget, it drains more money than any other government program in all western nations. It's also the world's third largest employer, and guess which western nation has the least doctors per head of population, Britain.

Britain could not afford the WELFARE STATE in 1945 and it sure as shit can't afford it now.

The NHS is one of the main culprits in turning the once "Great" Britain into a pathetic begary of a nation.

I will post more when I am not so tired.

If the American people want to sign their own death warrants, the fastest way would be to embrace socialized medicine. Take it from the people who have been there, done that, and who's country has been destroyed because of it.

Oh and I almost forgot, with Socialized Medicine, THE GOVERNMENT DECIDES WHO LIVES AND DIES.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 5:11:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2009 5:14:26 AM EST by DLoken]
Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
You convinced yet commie-boy?


Not really because in my other dealings with people they're overwhelmingly positive in favor of their socialized systems. Obviously it isn't perfect and given that maybe 10 people Go be i have weighed in, it is hardly a representative sample. Go be insulting elsewhere. There is a middle of the road somewhere.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 5:24:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2009 5:25:45 AM EST by jbombelli]
My wife's brother married a girl from England. Before they were married, she found out she had breast cancer. They told her it would be 3 years before she could get in to see somebody. So they got married, she came here, and saw somebody right away. She had breast cancer. Three years is a long time with breast cancer.

England's healthcare system? No thanks.


We have the best healthcare system in the world. To think otherwise is foolish. It's not perfect, but it is the best available.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 5:26:08 AM EST
In the UK I'd have to say its on the whole quite good - sure there are horror stories you read about in the newspapers but the 99.999+% of people who get good care are never mentioned.

Its not cheap - the taxation is infact quite high but its effectively always been there so its not something you notice.

The care my very old grandparents have been getting is first rate - they are both over 90 and pretty much see a doctor every month and are on quite a number of meds, and for them its stress free.

Personally I also have private medical insurance (which is cheap) so I can use a private clinic if needed for convenience, and the national health for more day-to-day medical needs such as regular prescriptions and family doctor stuff. All prescriptions are around $12 no matter what it is - flat fee regardless of whether its a cheap generic inhaler or a $1000 per tablet bottle of pills.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:07:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
My wife's brother married a girl from England. Before they were married, she found out she had breast cancer. They told her it would be 3 years before she could get in to see somebody. So they got married, she came here, and saw somebody right away. She had breast cancer. Three years is a long time with breast cancer.

England's healthcare system? No thanks.


We have the best healthcare system in the world. To think otherwise is foolish. It's not perfect, but it is the best available.

not sure about that ^.

I took my wife to see the GP on a Thursday and was getting a mammogram and biopsy on the Friday ,surgery on the Monday .

5 weeks later chemo started all this is in the last few months and she only has one more chemo to go then radio therapy will start.

so am I happy with it ? ,, yes I think I am.

I know its not what most of you want to hear but honest answer's and all that .

john


Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:15:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By UKjohn:

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
My wife's brother married a girl from England. Before they were married, she found out she had breast cancer. They told her it would be 3 years before she could get in to see somebody. So they got married, she came here, and saw somebody right away. She had breast cancer. Three years is a long time with breast cancer.

England's healthcare system? No thanks.


We have the best healthcare system in the world. To think otherwise is foolish. It's not perfect, but it is the best available.

not sure about that ^.

I took my wife to see the GP on a Thursday and was getting a mammogram and biopsy on the Friday ,surgery on the Monday .

5 weeks later chemo started all this is in the last few months and she only has one more chemo to go then radio therapy will start.

so am I happy with it ? ,, yes I think I am.

I know its not what most of you want to hear but honest answer's and all that .

john




Hope everything works out
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:20:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Originally Posted By UKjohn:

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
My wife's brother married a girl from England. Before they were married, she found out she had breast cancer. They told her it would be 3 years before she could get in to see somebody. So they got married, she came here, and saw somebody right away. She had breast cancer. Three years is a long time with breast cancer.

England's healthcare system? No thanks.


We have the best healthcare system in the world. To think otherwise is foolish. It's not perfect, but it is the best available.

not sure about that ^.

I took my wife to see the GP on a Thursday and was getting a mammogram and biopsy on the Friday ,surgery on the Monday .

5 weeks later chemo started all this is in the last few months and she only has one more chemo to go then radio therapy will start.

so am I happy with it ? ,, yes I think I am.

I know its not what most of you want to hear but honest answer's and all that .

john




Hope everything works out
thanks mate .
john

Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:20:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2009 6:21:54 AM EST by PUBBOY]
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
You convinced yet commie-boy?


Not really because in my other dealings with people they're overwhelmingly positive in favor of their socialized systems. Obviously it isn't perfect and given that maybe 10 people Go be i have weighed in, it is hardly a representative sample. Go be insulting elsewhere. There is a middle of the road somewhere.



Paul Krugman blooper


Link Posted: 7/31/2009 6:23:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By fosters:
Broken...The NHS was an utter joke...I cant imagine how much worse it has gotten since I left the UK back in '91



this, it used to take a week to get into see my GP, and you took the appointment on Wednesday morning at 11.30am regardless of how it fcuked up your schedule because if you didn't you got labeled "difficult" and next time you wouldn't get in at all. I'd compare it to visiting the DMV. Also I got billed for an ER visit following a motorcycle wreck.
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