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Posted: 9/7/2008 9:45:15 AM EDT


What would happen if our President did the same thing? Possible? Stupid Canadians - former ex-pat here

www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/09/07/canada.elections.ap/index.html

TORONTO, Canada (AP) -- Canada's prime minister dissolved Parliament on Sunday and called an early election for next month in hopes of strengthening his Conservative minority government's hold on power.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has changed the date for parliamentary elections via a legislative loophole.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has changed the date for parliamentary elections via a legislative loophole.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's party needs an additional 28 seats to have a majority in Parliament. Although he has downplayed that possibility, polls in recent days indicate his right wing party has a chance to do so.

The October 14 election will be Canada's third ballot in four years.

The Conservatives unseated the Liberal Party in 2006 after nearly 13 years in power, but as a minority government the Conservatives have been forced to rely on opposition lawmakers to pass legislation and adopt budgets.

With Harper signaling in recent weeks that he was leaning toward calling early elections, analysts said the Conservatives had a better shot of winning now than if they waited until being forced by the opposition into a vote later, when the Canadian economy might be worse off.

On Sunday, Harper visited Governor General Michaelle Jean and asked her to dissolve Parliament. The governor general is the representative of Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, who is Canada's head of state, but the position is purely ceremonial and the governor general obeys the wishes of the prime minister.

"Between now and October 14, Canadians will choose a government to look out for their interests at a time of global economic trouble," Harper said after the meeting.
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"They will choose between direction or uncertainty; between common sense or risky experiments; between steadiness or recklessness."

Liberal leader Stephane Dion said the election offers a stark choice between his party and the "most conservative government in our history."

Harper has said he is running on economic issues and stresses his opposition to an energy tax proposed by the Liberals.

But Robert Bothwell, director of the international relations program at the University of Toronto argued the move was political.

"Harper is going for a majority government. That's really the only issue," he said.

Observers also say Harper wanted a ballot ahead of the U.S. election. Bothwell said if Democrat Barack Obama surges in the next month in the United States, it will help Canada's opposition Liberal party.

"It will be bad for Harper. Canadian politics don't exactly mirror those of the United States, but if something happens in the United States it will find an echo in Canada," Bothwell said.

Electoral legislation that Harper helped enact after he came to power in 2006 fixed the date for the next election in October 2009, but a loophole allows the prime minister to ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament.

The Conservatives now fill 127 of the 308 seats in Parliament. The Liberals have 95, Bloc Quebecois 48, the New Democrats 30 and the Greens have one seat. Three seats are held by independents, and four are vacant.

Since becoming prime minister, Harper has extended Canada's military mission in Afghanistan. Canada has lost 96 soldiers, and as the death toll approaches 100 the mission could become an issue in the campaign.

Harper also pulled Canada out of the Kyoto Protocol, which commits industrialized nations to reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Dion, a former environment minister who named his dog Kyoto, wants to increase taxes on greenhouse gas emitters. Dion has moved his party to the crowded left in Canada by staking his leadership on a "Green Shift" tax plan.

The Conservatives have been targeting Dion's plan in television and radio ads, saying it would kill jobs and drive up energy costs even higher than the current high levels. Dion has said he would offset the higher energy prices by cutting income taxes.

Dion hasn't had much success selling the plan to Canadians, many of whom have viewed him as a weak leader ever since he surprisingly won leadership of the party in late 2006.

"I love to be the underdog. I love being underestimated," Dion said.

Many expect Dion to be removed as leader if he loses the election.

Link Posted: 9/7/2008 9:53:32 AM EDT
I've never understood why some countries allow the executive to 'dissolve' another branch of government.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I've never understood why some countries allow the executive to 'dissolve' another branch of government.


It's not another branch. Under the "Westminster" system that the UK, Canada and Australia (and other countries) use, the PM is not elected seperately. The "executive" branch is chosen from members of the "legislative" branch.

In the Westminster system, the person who would be the equivilent of the US House Majority Leader gets to be the PM. Decisions on who does/does not get a cabinet position do not need to be ratified by the House, but there may be procedures within each party for cabinet selection.

Margret Thatcher lost her position as PM of the UK not by losing a general election, but by losing an internal party leadership challenge made by John Major. The UK Conservative party chose Major as their new leader while Thatcher was still PM, and because he was the new party leader in the Commons, he became PM of the UK by default (and lost the next general election).
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:20:00 AM EDT
So when are we taking Canada?
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:22:16 AM EDT
THE CANADIANS JUST BOMBED THE BALDWINS!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:37:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:40:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WarWeapon762:
THE CANADIANS JUST BOMBED THE BALDWINS!!!!!


Ned and Jimbo alone would protect us, sadly.

Would be nice to get some trigger time.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:41:00 AM EDT
Well there are alot of Americans up there, so I guess we have as much provocation as Russia did in Georgia.....
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 10:56:57 AM EDT
Send in Good Old Shoe, and the Men of the 303!

The American Dream by David Bahler

"We've got the American spirit.
We guard the American Dream;

Our country's built on the Rock of Liberty;
& we as people must keep it free!

It is for Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness, Freedom & Liberty;
We guard our American Borders;
We guard the American Dream.

There comes a time in the course of Human Events;
when a threat must be answered with Courage and Strength.

Our forefathers earned the right to be Free;
And now is is our time to guard their dreams.

We guard our American borders
We guard the American Dream;
Our right to fight for democracy;
& keep our country Free.

We've got the American Spirit;
We guard the American Dream.
We guard our American borders;
We guard the American Dream
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:00:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:02:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


Yep.  Canada is due for a liberation.  
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:04:22 AM EDT
it's a shame, these third world countries changing goverments seemingly with the seasons.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:05:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2008 11:06:21 AM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]

Originally Posted By GarethB:

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I've never understood why some countries allow the executive to 'dissolve' another branch of government.


It's not another branch. Under the "Westminster" system that the UK, Canada and Australia (and other countries) use, the PM is not elected seperately. The "executive" branch is chosen from members of the "legislative" branch.

In the Westminster system, the person who would be the equivilent of the US House Majority Leader gets to be the PM. Decisions on who does/does not get a cabinet position do not need to be ratified by the House, but there may be procedures within each party for cabinet selection.

Margret Thatcher lost her position as PM of the UK not by losing a general election, but by losing an internal party leadership challenge made by John Major. The UK Conservative party chose Major as their new leader while Thatcher was still PM, and because he was the new party leader in the Commons, he became PM of the UK by default (and lost the next general election).


I think its actually called the Parliamentary model. The Prime Minister has much greater legislative power, as well as power over his own party, than the US President does.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:07:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


Yep.  Canada is due for a liberation.  




Something tells me when we invade western Canda we will be greeted with celebration.

Eastern Canada, a scorched earth policy might be better.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:11:58 AM EDT
Gosh, I hope we don't target their bacon depots for destruction.

Is it possible that William Shatner is a mole who has been working for Kanuckistan?
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:13:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I've never understood why some countries allow the executive to 'dissolve' another branch of government.


It is part of the parlimentary system...

The dissolution ALWAYS is followed by elections...

Basically, they can have elections whenever they want, but MUST have them at a minimum of every X years...

So if the conditions are 'favorable' to the PM's party, he can call elections and try to grow his power base...

Similarly, Parliment can dissolve itself with a vote of no confidence and thus force elections...
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:15:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


The French Canadians have the best strippers and strategic tactical snow machine factories though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:18:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Insider:
Gosh, I hope we don't target their bacon depots for destruction.

Is it possible that William Shatner is a mole who has been working for Kanuckistan?


Even if he was a Canadian agent, his toupee is a secret agent working for the US, so it doesn't really matter.






Also, we gotta protect our black troops when we invade to liberate Canada. According to John Candy, they always die "first or worst", and my horror movie collection backs this up.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:20:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


Ironically, a large part of the Quebec population actually wants to join the US.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:28:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


Ironically, a large part of the Quebec population actually wants to join the US.



I understand there to be a Quebec seperatist movement too, they do not want to be part of Canada either, but not join us.  IIRC the overwhelming majority of Canadas resources are in the west.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.



I agree with this.  Leave the French speaking parts out.


Ironically, a large part of the Quebec population actually wants to join the US.



I understand there to be a Quebec seperatist movement too, they do not want to be part of Canada either, but not join us.  IIRC the overwhelming majority of Canadas resources are in the west.


Yup. Some of Quebec likes being Canadian, some of it wants to be American, and the rest wants everyone else to go fuck themselves.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.


Only IF they take NY/NJ and Massachusetts with them.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:50:57 AM EDT
If our President tried the same it would probably cause a civil war.  And rightly so.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:51:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
I think its actually called the Parliamentary model. The Prime Minister has much greater legislative power, as well as power over his own party, than the US President does.


Obama is a big fan of Parliament.



Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:51:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Something tells me when we invade western Canda we will be greeted with celebration.


Until they realize that Washington D.C. isn't that much better than Ottawa...
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:56:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If our President tried the same it would probably cause a civil war.  And rightly so.


Why? Its just the process that occurs when a election term comes to an end.

Link Posted: 9/7/2008 11:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jnojr:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Something tells me when we invade western Canda we will be greeted with celebration.


Until they realize that Washington D.C. isn't that much better than Ottawa...



You have it worse than both, Sacramento.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:01:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If our President tried the same it would probably cause a civil war.  And rightly so.


Why? Its just the process that occurs when a election term comes to an end.



They do not have seperaion of powers and we do, and I doubt America could ever be moved to revolt so long as store shelves are stocked and cable tv is operating.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:01:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If our President tried the same it would probably cause a civil war.  And rightly so.


Why? Its just the process that occurs when a election term comes to an end.



Our legislature is a completely separate branch of our government.  The US President does not have the legal authority to do what that Canadian PM did with the canadian parliament.

Our Legislative sessions are set out in the US Constitution.  The President doesn't have any say on when they start or end.  The only input he can make is that he can call them back after the session has ended in an emergency.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:05:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GarethB:

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I've never understood why some countries allow the executive to 'dissolve' another branch of government.


It's not another branch. Under the "Westminster" system that the UK, Canada and Australia (and other countries) use, the PM is not elected seperately. The "executive" branch is chosen from members of the "legislative" branch.

In the Westminster system, the person who would be the equivilent of the US House Majority Leader gets to be the PM. Decisions on who does/does not get a cabinet position do not need to be ratified by the House, but there may be procedures within each party for cabinet selection.

Margret Thatcher lost her position as PM of the UK not by losing a general election, but by losing an internal party leadership challenge made by John Major. The UK Conservative party chose Major as their new leader while Thatcher was still PM, and because he was the new party leader in the Commons, he became PM of the UK by default (and lost the next general election).


Imagine if we had that miserable system of government here.

Prime Minister Nancy Pelosi would be running the show.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:10:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2008 12:11:15 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If our President tried the same it would probably cause a civil war.  And rightly so.


Why? Its just the process that occurs when a election term comes to an end.



Our legislature is a completely separate branch of our government.  The US President does not have the legal authority to do what that Canadian PM did with the canadian parliament.

Our Legislative sessions are set out in the US Constitution.  The President doesn't have any say on when they start or end.  The only input he can make is that he can call them back after the session has ended in an emergency.


Exactly.  For the Canadian system the law says something like "an election must be called at most 5 years after parliament is formed". So, its always timed to hopefully up the odds for the sitting party.

Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:15:06 PM EDT
OK, so what do we need to do to dissolve Congress?  How can we wipe the slate and call a "do-over"?
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:33:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2008 12:34:43 PM EDT by tr_1127]

Originally Posted By GarethB:

It's not another branch. Under the "Westminster" system that the UK, Canada and Australia (and other countries) use, the PM is not elected seperately. The "executive" branch is chosen from members of the "legislative" branch.

In the Westminster system, the person who would be the equivilent of the US House Majority Leader gets to be the PM.


Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:34:46 PM EDT
Nor their maple syrup production fields............gotta have that for pancakes



Originally Posted By The_Insider:
Gosh, I hope we don't target their bacon depots for destruction.

Is it possible that William Shatner is a mole who has been working for Kanuckistan?
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:36:53 PM EDT
Where's our fellow Canucks here? Did they cut off the internet up north already?
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 12:45:35 PM EDT
Hope it works for Harper.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 1:00:11 PM EDT
Hopefully with this change they can change some of the gun laws passed up there since 1976
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 1:56:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
Where's our fellow Canucks here? Did they cut off the internet up north already?


They must be busy rounding up the liberals into camps, or are themselves being rounded up into camps by liberals.

There are twice as many liberals in Canada, but the conservatives own more guns. Tag for the outcome.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 2:00:39 PM EDT
Just to make it clear. This isn't a SHTF situation, this isn't a misuse of Prime Ministerial power, or a power grab. Its the process that is followed under Parliamentary law, for calling an election.

After the election Parliament is formed again. Its SOP.

Hopefully this will allow Harper to get a majority conservative government.

Link Posted: 9/7/2008 2:01:51 PM EDT
Nothing to see here, par for the course in parliamentary politics...
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 2:14:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2008 3:03:37 PM EDT by TheCanuck]
BTW, the Prime Minister cannot disolver the parliament as he sees fit. He had to ask the governor general, who represents the queen, to disolve parliament.

Sorry, kinda been busy with a fund raiser for Harper's party.

People out west hate Québec, but ironically, if the conservatives get a majority, it'll be in big part because of Québec. The conservatives are poised to take 25 seats or more, of the 75 available in Québec, wich would leave them only a few seats short of a majority. If Harper can convince the Newfs to tune out their retarded PM, and join the conservatives, and if he can grab a couple seats in BC, it's in the bag.
Link Posted: 9/7/2008 2:19:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By BIGMITCHBAKER:
So when are we taking Canada?

We need to absorb all of Canada except for Ontario and Quebec.


arent they a socialist country?let's not absorb them .it could take a few  generations to get their minds right again.
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