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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/9/2002 2:53:44 PM EST
With all thats gone on since September 11th and now the shooting at LAX, I have dumb question. Can non-citizens own guns in the US? Is my thinking wrong if I say only US Citizens should be allowed to own guns? I also believe felons, people who have denounced their US citizenship and "guests" of the US should not be allowed to own guns. Until this last week, I thought this was the way it was. I guess I need to be educated. The second ammendment doesn't cover non-citizens, does it? In Canada you can't bring a hunting rifle without jumping through many, many hoops. If you are caught with a gun in Mexico, they throw you in jail. I believe most of Europe is the same way. I'm not trolling for a fight, I just haven't seen this subject debated on this board. I would like somebody to set me straight on what is allowed and what should be allowed. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 3:48:09 PM EST
Concerning the owning of firearms by non-citizens, I believe it is up to the states and local govts. Here, in Iowa, about 10 years ago, a Chinese student legally purchased a Taurus M82 .38 special revolver and then shot several people at the U of Iowa campus.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 4:04:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By last_mile2002: With all thats gone on since September 11th and now the shooting at LAX, I have dumb question. Can non-citizens own guns in the US?
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Yes.
Is my thinking wrong if I say only US Citizens should be allowed to own guns?
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Depends on your reasoning. How about foreigners that come here on hunting trips?
I also believe felons, people who have denounced their US citizenship and "guests" of the US should not be allowed to own guns.
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Well, "should" is not "are."
Until this last week, I thought this was the way it was. I guess I need to be educated. The second ammendment doesn't cover non-citizens, does it?
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Well, does the other ammendments cover non-citizens? It's an all or nothing kind of deal. However, the ownership of firearms is limited for thousands of Americans, just as for most non-citizens. The guy who went nuts at LAX was a permanent resident though.
In Canada you can't bring a hunting rifle without jumping through many, many hoops. If you are caught with a gun in Mexico, they throw you in jail. I believe most of Europe is the same way.
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You are correct.
I would like somebody to set me straight on what is allowed and what should be allowed.
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Well, what should be allowed is highly subjective, so I won't touch that part of it. But here it goes: A non-citizen may buy firearms, provided he/she is a resident, who's been residing in the state of application for 90 consecutive days, and who's not here on a non-immigrant visa. However, people on non-immigrant visas can purchase firearms if they can show proof for why they need a firearm. The most valid "need" is for hunting. Therefore such non-immigrant can go to most sporting goods stores and buy a hunting permit. Then he/she can take said hunting permit, a photo ID showing an address in the resident state (dated no sooner than 90 days of purchase date) to the nearest FFL holder that sells firearms. Among the many questions on the Firearms Transfer Form there's a box where it's asked why an exception should be made for this applicant. That's where the hunting permit # goes. This is how I have purchased firearms previously.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 4:23:48 PM EST
From the ATF website ([url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a15[/url]): Q. May foreign visitors and other aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States? [Back] A. Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States. There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows: nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States; nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms; certain diplomats; officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department; foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General. Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Immigration and Naturalization Service AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 days prior to the firearms transaction.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 4:59:21 PM EST
All of you have brought up good points that I have not fully explored. I do agree there are some sporting needs, like hunting, sporting shows and IPSC/IDPA that non-residents can bring in guns. I am still wondering why there is only a 90 day period. It takes five years of living here to even be considered for citizenship. I guess I live in a simple and protected world. My great-grandparents immigrated to the US about 100 years ago. At that time they needed a US citizen to sponsor them. According to my grandparents, that sponsor was essentially responsible for the "new immigrants". If my great-grandparents would have done something wrong, the local sheriff would have gone after their sponsor. It was also a way for new immigrants to integrate into society. Both my parents and grandparents were raised as Americans first by my great-grandparents. Learning English, going to college and contributing to society was high on the priority list. I don't know, I think we lost what it means to immigrate to the US. It once meant the first step to becoming a citizen. When I was very little in grade school, I remember doing drills with my great-grandparents on US facts before their citizenship test. Now, I see people coming to the US to live here permanently, but don't want to become citizens. It doesn't seem right and I don't know how to fix it without being labeled a racist or prejudiced. I don't want this to become a political discussion, I was just looking for some objective facts. It looks like some things need to be fixed.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 5:12:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2002 5:17:33 PM EST by Pthfndr]
Originally Posted By last_mile2002: ...Is my thinking wrong if I say only US Citizens should be allowed to own guns?...
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Yes, your thinking is wrong. Our Constitution enumerates the Rights of people. Not citizens. Does a person living in another country have a Right to free speech, freedom of religion, keep and bear arms to defend themselves? Of course they do. The difference is in our couuntry the founding fathers saw fit to put those Rights down on paper in an attempt to make sure the government would GUARRANTEE that those Rights would not be taken away. One person does not give another person rights. They can only take them away or restrict them. As we see being done every day. If you were to say a non U.S. citizen has no Right to defend themselves with a firearm, then what's to stop the government from saying all people of a certain ethnic or religous heritage have no Right to the same. Rights are something all people have no matter where they live or where they are from. Isn't that one reason why our country has fought in two world wars? Is it "legal"? Well that's a seperate question. Laws don't make rights either. They simply define how much the government restricts them [:(]
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:08:15 PM EST
Pthfndr, I just want to say you have brought many points to light and I agree with all of them. As an American, I'm torn what to do and what should be done. Thanks for the clarifying what this country is all about.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:16:37 PM EST
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