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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/27/2005 3:45:22 PM EDT
Does God have to follow the same rules he has given us? Or is it a case of "do as I say not as I do"?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:57:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nacrotek:
Does God have to follow the same rules he has given us? Or is it a case of "do as I say not as I do"?



This sounds like a bait and troll question to me..

Please elaborate..

Are you going to try to trip us up?

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:32:26 PM EDT
I'm not looking to start anything other than a meaningful conversation.
I'm curious because the answer to this question would reflect on the true nature of God. If He CAN NOT break his own commandments then the argument of God as an Omnipotent being is right out. If God CAN break his own commandments it reinforces the argument that we are made in his image (Both God and man has free will), but might challenge the argument that God is Omnibenevolent (Why give us rules that He is not willing to follow and punish us when we break them).
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:38:10 PM EDT
God does not break commandments.
These rules are binding on us only, not on Him.
God is always acting properly - whatever He does, will end up with the proper end.
For instance - people ask how God can allow someone such as Hitler to live.
If God had not allowed this, what else might have come about?

God knows what He is doing - it's kind of comes with the territory.
Creating life from nothingness and all that.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:48:22 PM EDT
It is a clear case of do as I say not as I do. One only has to read the bible to see it. For example, were Noah and his family really the only righteous people on the planet worth saving at the time?

The whole story of Noah reads like a childish fairy tale much like the story of the tower of Babel.

Unless you learn to read Hebrew and Latin then somehow get access to the original, if they really do still exist scriptures you will never know exactly what the bible says.

Centuries passed when less than 1/2 of 1% of the entire world population were literate in any language while the churches edited and revised.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:49:27 PM EDT
?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:53:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 4:54:55 PM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By nacrotek:
I'm not looking to start anything other than a meaningful conversation.
I'm curious because the answer to this question would reflect on the true nature of God. If He CAN NOT break his own commandments then the argument of God as an Omnipotent being is right out. If God CAN break his own commandments it reinforces the argument that we are made in his image (Both God and man has free will), but might challenge the argument that God is Omnibenevolent (Why give us rules that He is not willing to follow and punish us when we break them).


There is a difference between being able to do anything, ie omnipotent, and chosing not to do certain things.

ETA: Does he have the ability? I'm sure. However, we were made in His image. Which means He has free will. I imagine He choses not to break his commandments.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
There is a difference between being able to do anything, ie omnipotent, and chosing not to do certain things.



But could God make a burrito so big that even he couldn't eat it?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:22:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 7:24:07 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By dport:
There is a difference between being able to do anything, ie omnipotent, and chosing not to do certain things.



But could God make a burrito so big that even he couldn't eat it?



Valid question.
The burrito that is so big that God could not eat it could never exist.
God is omnipotent, so he can eat any size of burrito He wanted to.
However, He could also choose not to eat it.

ETA: If, hypothetically, such a burrito did exist, the Universe would cease to exist not long after.
The Universe is based off of the rule that "God is omnipotent" so if that were somehow able to be broken, existence would cease.
Luckily, that law can never be broken.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 11:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:
It is a clear case of do as I say not as I do. One only has to read the bible to see it. For example, were Noah and his family really the only righteous people on the planet worth saving at the time?

The whole story of Noah reads like a childish fairy tale much like the story of the tower of Babel.

Unless you learn to read Hebrew and Latin then somehow get access to the original, if they really do still exist scriptures you will never know exactly what the bible says.

Centuries passed when less than 1/2 of 1% of the entire world population were literate in any language while the churches edited and revised.



in this case, where the concept of this G-d is born in Jewish writings, The Jews are very clear in the firm belief that G-d keeps the commandments as well.

As far as 1/2 to 1% (I dont know what the number is) Whatever it is , it included the Jews. The Jews have a mandate to be literate, and always have. It is the most basic of goals that a Jewish person must obtain. Islam goes to great length in the Koran to state this as true and In Christianity we see an example of it when Jesus went into the Synogogue and read from the Torah and the Prophits, a skill every Jew must poses, it is a basic tennent. All the secular scholars of the ancient world (Greeks, Romans..ect...) write at great length on the subject of Jewish literacy as well. During the Church age in Europe, only three classes of people were literate, The nobility, the clergy and all Jews.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 4:52:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nacrotek:
Does God have to follow the same rules he has given us? Or is it a case of "do as I say not as I do"?



He has defined to us who He is and what His standards of conduct are.

If He did not act consistently according to His revealed character, we would not be able to trust Him.

For example, He despises lying. Therefore, we can trust Him to be truthful.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:58:02 AM EDT

    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:


Unlike man God can eat of any tree and have no ill effects. Unlike man God doesn't need rules, laws, or commandments He is perfect.

Only recently has Noah's Ark been spun into a 'childish story'. Wickedness and God's judment is a serious matter. Yes, Noah and seven family members were the only righteous people left before the flood. Also God couldn't find ten righteous souls is Sodom. This is fact not fairy tale.

Shok
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:18:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By dport:
There is a difference between being able to do anything, ie omnipotent, and chosing not to do certain things.



But could God make a burrito so big that even he couldn't eat it?



No, because He's not in the practice of doing absurd things to entertain ridiculous questions.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:30:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By dport:
There is a difference between being able to do anything, ie omnipotent, and chosing not to do certain things.



But could God make a burrito so big that even he couldn't eat it?



No, because He's not in the practice of doing absurd things to entertain ridiculous questions.



How do you know he's not? Maybe the platypus was just the result of a ridiculous question by some aboriginal shaman who doubted God's power.

I'm always fascinated by people who claim to know God's mind on things.

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:00:02 AM EDT
If he conjured me up a 10 foot long bacon, egg, sausage and cheese burrito with green sauce I'd believe.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:02:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 7:03:00 AM EDT by TheRedGoat]
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:04:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:


PS. The fact that we have not yet been destroyed by a Taco Bell burrito is proof that God has never smoked weed...



Where's the quality control in that??? I mean, shouldn't he have to test everything he creates before calling it "finished???"
Evidently God did NOT create MILSPEC
<snort>

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:07:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:


PS. The fact that we have not yet been destroyed by a Taco Bell burrito is proof that God has never smoked weed...



Where's the quality control in that??? I mean, shouldn't he have to test everything he creates before calling it "finished???"
Evidently God did NOT create MILSPEC
<snort>




For things like that, God sent us his most trusted craftsman, John Moses Browning.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:11:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:


How do you know he's not? Maybe the platypus was just the result of a ridiculous question by some aboriginal shaman who doubted God's power.

I'm always fascinated by people who claim to know God's mind on things.




All I know is what He tells us of Himself in His Word (the Bible).

I'm fascinated by people who try to rationalize away the things He tells us.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:31:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:


PS. The fact that we have not yet been destroyed by a Taco Bell burrito is proof that God has never smoked weed...



Where's the quality control in that??? I mean, shouldn't he have to test everything he creates before calling it "finished???"
Evidently God did NOT create MILSPEC
<snort>




One more reason why women should not be clergy...

Why would God need quality control, woman? He made an entire Universe and can't make a weed? Sheesh.

Shouldn't you be in the kitchen making me a sammich?

Leave the thinking to the men, ok?

TRG



Clergy?? Hah!!! That's funny!
And ya know, God made a pretty flawed universe: case in point: women can go for hours non-stop with MANY MANY orgasms...men need to er, stop and re-charge....
Yep flawed...

But you're right...men should do the thinking...yup!
Keep your thinking...I'll keep my multiple o's
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:39:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:


PS. The fact that we have not yet been destroyed by a Taco Bell burrito is proof that God has never smoked weed...



Where's the quality control in that??? I mean, shouldn't he have to test everything he creates before calling it "finished???"
Evidently God did NOT create MILSPEC
<snort>




One more reason why women should not be clergy...

Why would God need quality control, woman? He made an entire Universe and can't make a weed? Sheesh.

Shouldn't you be in the kitchen making me a sammich?

Leave the thinking to the men, ok?

TRG



Clergy?? Hah!!! That's funny!
And ya know, God made a pretty flawed universe: case in point: women can go for hours non-stop with MANY MANY orgasms...men need to er, stop and re-charge....
Yep flawed...

But you're right...men should do the thinking...yup!
Keep your thinking...I'll keep my multiple o's



Interesting point you bring up there.
That is something my gf and I talk about often.
I told her once I'd like to be able to go more than once in a row.
She told me that it is all about trade offs.
For guys, orgasms are so intense that they about pass out.
For women, they are good, but not quite so intense.
However women have the ability to go more than once.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, but I found it to be an interesting point and consistent with experience.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:48:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 7:49:55 AM EDT by PlaymoreMinds]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

But you're right...men should do the thinking...yup!
Keep your thinking...I'll keep my multiple o's



Interesting point you bring up there.
That is something my gf and I talk about often.
I told her once I'd like to be able to go more than once in a row.
She told me that it is all about trade offs.
For guys, orgasms are so intense that they about pass out.
For women, they are good, but not quite so intense.
However women have the ability to go more than once.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, but I found it to be an interesting point and consistent with experience.



Blah blah blah...
How much longer, dammit??????????????/

sorry...it was there...<insert mock-ashamed emoticon here>
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:14:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:22:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:56:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:


Clergy?? Hah!!! That's funny!
And ya know, God made a pretty flawed universe: case in point: women can go for hours non-stop with MANY MANY orgasms...men need to er, stop and re-charge....
Yep flawed...




You know, FWIW, I'll take the ability to pee standing up (without getting it on my leg) and the lack of monthly bleeding of my genitalia any day over multiple O's...

I see we have BOTH heard the Adam and Eve joke!

And... FWIW, men can have multiple O's. It takes practice, and mental control, but Orgasm and ejaculation are two seperate functions of the male reproduction cycle. I have done it, but the point of sex is not always the O, sometimes it is more fun to just enjoy yourself and your partner without keeping score.

How YOU doin'?
TRG

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nacrotek:
I'm not looking to start anything other than a meaningful conversation.
I'm curious because the answer to this question would reflect on the true nature of God. If He CAN NOT break his own commandments then the argument of God as an Omnipotent being is right out. If God CAN break his own commandments it reinforces the argument that we are made in his image (Both God and man has free will), but might challenge the argument that God is Omnibenevolent (Why give us rules that He is not willing to follow and punish us when we break them).



No brainer - It would be no different than the way any good parent raises thier children.

Gunner1X, father of two great kids.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 1:10:34 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Basically these types of questions like "Can God break his own rules" or "Can God create a boulder so heavy he can't lift it?" can all be distilled down to the core question:

Can God be "not God"?

The answer is simply "no". God cannot be "Not God".

Such an idea that 'God can't break his own rules therefore God is not omnipotent' is simply erroneous thinking.

It's not a limitation on God's omnipotence that God can't break his own rules (thereby being "not God") - it's just stating that such a logical contradiction simply cannot exist.

As an example, it is inconceivable that "X =! X". But saying it's impossible for "X =! X" implies nothing about the nature of "X", but rather it simply says the whole statement itself is false.


Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:27:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:11:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:17:05 AM EDT by Freakzilla]
Do not try to understand everything God does, as his wisdom is beyond our comprehension.

Just know that he is good, and knows the what is best for you, you do not know what is best for you!

Someday, when you enter into paradise and look your Father in the face, you will finally understand all the reasons why God allowed us to suffer in our time on earth. And you will thank him for it and shout for joy!

In my own life I have experienced this, as I have been stricken with an illness for over a year, and I often cursed God for it,

but I came around eventually, and when I did, I gave my life back to Jesus www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=387425.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:26:19 AM EDT
God cannot murder.

God cannot lie.

God cannot steal.

One has to understand the Nature of God. God is not tempted by sinful and wrong actions, and there are things that are logically impossible for God to do. God, for instance, cannot steal. He created everything and thus it would all belong to Him in the first place, thus He could not steal anything.

God IS limited, but He is only limited by His own decision. Christ, for instance, put Himself in a human body and lived within the restrictions of a human being while on this earth. He did this of His own will, and could have stopped this of His own will. God limited Himself when He created free will in men, as the concept of free will requires God to allow men to exercise that free will.

The temptation for men to steal, murder, commit adultery, etc. does not exist for God. He isn't tempted like men are.

One must understand that God IS righteous. Righteousness is defined by Him. Love is defined by Him. Wisdom is defined by Him. God IS those virtues and others that cannot be listed for the sake of space. Trying to tempt God to lie would be about as successful as trying to tempt you into raping your grandmother.

The mere suggestion of such a thing is offensive. It goes against every fiber of your being, and as such it is not a temptation for you.

God is not bound by His laws in the sense that He "has" to obey them. God's laws proceed from His perfect and flawless charachter.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:28:51 AM EDT
Who would call him on it?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:34:41 AM EDT

Though I agreed with your answer, I found this example to be lightyears off base:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Trying to tempt God to lie would be about as successful as trying to tempt you into raping your grandmother.


It is conceivable for a man to rape his grandmother.

It is inconceivable for God to lie.


Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:34:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nacrotek:
Does God have to follow the same rules he has given us? Or is it a case of "do as I say not as I do"?



The question is not could he, but would he? The answer is no.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:36:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:36:23 AM EDT by El_Abogado]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
God is not bound by His laws in the sense that He "has" to obey them. God's laws proceed from His perfect and flawless character.



+1
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:42:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Though I agreed with your answer, I found this example to be lightyears off base:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Trying to tempt God to lie would be about as successful as trying to tempt you into raping your grandmother.


It is conceivable for a man to rape his grandmother.

It is inconceivable for God to lie.



It is indeed conceivable for a man to rape his grandmother.

But it is not something many people are tempted to do.

In fact, merely speaking such a thing to most normal people would be horribly offensive. They would not be inclined to do such a thing because even the thought of it violates the very fiber of most people's being.

A person's reaction to such a thing is the closest human equivalent to God's non-temptation by sin that I could think of off the cuff.

It is hardly a perfect description, but it does relate Eternal Truths in a way people can understand.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:46:12 AM EDT
God can't sin. If God appears to break his own commands, you have misread the command, or don't understand the purpose. Every person alive right now will die in the next 100 years, give or take a few. Since our days are numbered, would you consider that God killing us? Pestilence, disease and famine were all sent by God to accomplish his purpose. If we cause the same, it is sinfull, because our purpose is selfish or just plain wrong. Being life focused vs. afterlife focused causes many why's. The world will end and tribulation will rain down. Earth focused says how terrible of God, heaven focused says thanks for bringing me home, thank you.
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