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Posted: 10/20/2008 3:04:42 PM EDT


Lawmakers, sign on now, to repeal the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (CSA). Without this authority, the ill-conceived War On Drugs (WOD) stops in its tracks. No one has talked about the War On Drugs for a long time. It has not gone away. We still squander scarce resources on the fight against ourselves, at a time when foreign enemies are at the gate. Enough is enough, too much is too much, and more of this futile war would be the height of fiscal irresponsibility. Do now, for the War On Drugs, what the 21st Amendment did for the 18th, and with it, alcohol prohibition. Stop throwing good money after bad.


We should have learned a lesson from alcohol prohibition, namely that it doesn’t work.
Isn’t there enough blood in the streets already, without continuing to shoot ourselves in the feet? Do we really need to ruin the lives of so many of our own children, perhaps on the theory it is for their own good?

The CSA is unconstitutional. The CSA never had a constitutional amendment to enable it, like the 18th amendment enabled alcohol prohibition. The drug warriors have, so far, gotten away with an end run, subverting the lack of constitutional authority.


An authority over Interstate Commerce provides a pretext of constitutionality. Any excuse is better than none. So, how is that interstate commerce going, these days? Why would a bankrupt treasury distain to derive revenue from its number one cash crop? The anti-capitalist policy inhibits small farmers from cultivating for a taxed market, and gifts a tax-free monopoly to outlaws, some of whom may be friends of our enemies. This is not what the founders had in mind when they authorized meddling in interstate commerce. Lets bring the underground economy into the taxed economy. The Supreme Court got it wrong in Gonzales V Raich. Good on Clarence Thomas for noticing that the so-called constitutionality of the law is a mockery.
www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZD1.html

How did we get this CSA? Was there an informed debate on the floor? Did the substances ever get their day in court? What congressman then, or now, would admit to knowing a thing or two about LSD? The lawmakers have never wanted to know more than it is politically safe to be against it. Governments around the world ignore fact-checkers and even their own reports. Forgive them, Lord, they make it their business to know not what they do. Common sense tells us that personal experience deepens the understanding of issues. Personal experience is a good thing. But we herd the experienced to the hoosegow. We keep them out of jobs. The many who avoid detection must live double lives.


The congressmen who passed the CSA probably don’t even get it that they deny freedom of religion to those who prefer a non-placebo as their sacrament of communion. Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religious freedom, says the First Amendment. But they did.


Many of the prohibited substances provide access to unique mental states. You can’t say your piece, if you can’t think it up. You can’t think it up, if you are not in a receptive state of mind. Neither the Constitution, nor its amendments, enumerates a power of government to prevent access to specific states of mind. How and when did the government acquire this power, to restrict consciousness and thought? Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech, says the First Amendment. But they did.


What would happen if the CSA was enforced one hundred percent? What if all the civil disobediants turned in notarized confessions tomorrow? That is a double digit demographic. Even after years of spending more on prisons than on schools, the prisons don’t have that kind of sleeping capacity. Converting taxpayers into wards of the state mathematically increases the tax burden on the remainder. Higher tax burdens are not what the doctor is ordering at this time.


None of these substances are alleged to be as harmful as prison is. Granny’s justice is a saner benchmark. A kid caught with cigarettes must keep on smoking them, right then and there, until he or she has wretched. Drugs are sometimes accused of causing paranoia, but it is prohibition’s threat of loss of liberty, employment, and estate, that introduces paranoia. Apparently it is true that some of these substances do cause insanity, but the insanity is only in the minds of those who have never tried them. There shall not be cruel and unusual punishment, says the Eighth Amendment. But here it is, in the CSA.


In the 1630’s, the pilgrims wrote home glowingly that the native hemp was superior to European varieties. Now, the government pretends it has a right to prohibit farmers from the husbandry of native hemp, but it so doesn’t. Could an offender get a plea-bargain, by rolling over on someone higher up in the organization? The farmer does nothing to nature’s seed that God Himself does not do when He provides it rain, sunlight, and decomposing earth. How can it be a crime to do as God does? Is the instigator to get off scot-free, while small users are selectively prosecuted? God confesses, in Genesis 11-12, it was He who created the seed-bearing plants, on the second day. Then, He saw they were good. There you have it, the perpetrator shows no remorse about creating cannabis or mushrooms. Neither has He apologized for endowing humans with sensitive internal receptor sites which activate seductive mental effects in the presence of the scheduled molecules. Book Him, Dano.


Common Law must hold that humans are the legal owners of their own bodies. Men may dispose of their property as they please. It is none of Government’s business which substances its citizens prefer to stimulate themselves with. Men have a right to get drunk in their own homes, be it folly or otherwise. The usual caveats, against injury to others, or their estates, remain in effect.


The Declaration of Independence gets right to the point. The Pursuit Of Happiness is a self-evident, God-given, inalienable, right of man. The War On Drugs is, in reality, a war on the pursuit of happiness. Too bad the Declaration of Independence is not worth much in court.


Notwithstanding the failure of the Supreme Court to overturn the CSA, lawmakers can and should repeal the act. Lawmakers, please get to it now, in each house, without undue delay. Wake up.
Who has the guts to put America first and not prolong the tragedy?

We don’t need the CSA. The citizenry already has legal recourse for various injuries to itself and its estate, without invoking any War On Drugs. We should stop committing resources to ruin the lives of peaceful people who never injured anyone. If someone screws up at work, fire him or her for the screw-up. The Books still have plenty of laws on them, without this one.


Without the CSA, the empty prisons could conceivably be used to house the homeless. Homeland security might be able to use the choppers that won’t be needed for eradication. Maybe the negative numbers that will have to be used to bottom-line our legacy to the next generation can be less ginormous.


Cannabis has a stronger claim to the blessing of the state than do the sanctioned tobacco and alcohol. Cannabis does not have the deadly lung cancer of tobacco, nor the puking, hangover, and liver cirrhosis of alcohol. To the contrary, cannabis shows promise as an anti-tumor agent. Nor is cannabis associated with social problems like fighting and crashing cars. Cannabis-intoxication is usually too mellow for fighting, and impaired drivers typically drive within the limits of their impairment. The roads will be safer, if slower, for every driver that switches from drink to smoke. Coffee drinkers cause more serious accidents by zipping in and out of traffic and tailgating. To assure public safety on the road, cops need a kit to assess driving competence and alertness objectively. Perhaps science can develop a virtual reality simulator. Hopefully it could also detect drowsy, Alzheimer’s, and perhaps road-raging, drivers.


John McCain should recuse himself on the CSA repeal issue, due to the conflict of interest of potential competition for his family beer franchise. Both candidates have promised to end ‘failed programs’, but neither has issued a timetable, or a roadmap, for standing down on the WOD.


The debate how a crippled USA can manage ‘the two wars’ is blind. Hello, there are three, not two, wars. The War On Drugs has not let up, after 38 years of failure. Its costs are in the ballpark of the foreign wars. There is no lower-hanging, riper, or higher yielding budgetary fruit than to stop this third war, cold turkey. We are making new enemies faster than we are killing the old ones. We are losing old friends. In this national crisis of global humiliation, we should cut a little slack to those who still love the United States of America, no matter what they may be smoking. Stave off national meltdown, by repeal of the CSA, this week, if possible. TIA.


Without the War On Drugs, Americans can come together as a people in ways that are not possible with so many of our best and brightest under threat of disenfranchisement.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:22:16 PM EDT
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?


I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right?


I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON. It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline, though. I'll
agree with you on THAT part of the issue. But would you want your kids using what would
be legal if we legalized drugs?


Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions.



It's always tough when idealism collides with reality.



CJ
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:24:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?


So the state has to pick up the slack because you're a shitty parent. Gotcha.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:25:27 PM EDT
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:27:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?


I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right?


I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON. It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline, though. I'll
agree with you on THAT part of the issue. But would you want your kids using what would
be legal if we legalized drugs?


Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions.



It's always tough when idealism collides with reality.



CJ



So you think the fact that drugs are illegal stops kids from doing them? Huh
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:28:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?



CJ


The same thing I'd tell them if they run down for tobacco or alcohol.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:28:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.


Assault weapons are illegal for a reason.

Semi-automatic weapons are illegal for a reason.

Revolvers are illegal for a reason.

BB guns are illegal for a reason.

Pea-shooters are illegal for a reason.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:32:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions.



So because some people use drugs to hurt others, nobody should be allowed to have drugs?

Hmmm, something about that sounds familiar...
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:32:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.


Assault weapons are illegal for a reason.

Semi-automatic weapons are illegal for a reason.

Revolvers are illegal for a reason.

BB guns are illegal for a reason.

Pea-shooters are illegal for a reason.


I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:33:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.


Assault weapons are illegal for a reason.

Semi-automatic weapons are illegal for a reason.

Revolvers are illegal for a reason.

BB guns are illegal for a reason.

Pea-shooters are illegal for a reason.


dude, quit harshing my buzz
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:34:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?

I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right?


I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON. It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline, though. I'll
agree with you on THAT part of the issue. But would you want your kids using what would
be legal if we legalized drugs?


Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions.



It's always tough when idealism collides with reality.



CJ


I'd probably bust their asses and report the clerk, the same I would if they picked up a bottle of Jack and a twelve pack.

Sorry-I guess that's not as dramatic as wailing that "if it's legalized, how ever will we control it like we control alcohol"
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:35:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.


Assault weapons are illegal for a reason.

Semi-automatic weapons are illegal for a reason.

Revolvers are illegal for a reason.

BB guns are illegal for a reason.

Pea-shooters are illegal for a reason.


I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


It's right next to the part about government dictating what constitutes "liberty".
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:35:30 PM EDT


No one has talked about the War On Drugs for a long time. It has not gone away. We still squander scarce resources on the fight against ourselves, at a time when foreign enemies are at the gate. Enough is enough, too much is too much, and more of this futile war would be the height of fiscal irresponsibility. Do now, for the War On Drugs, what the 21st Amendment did for the 18th, and with it, alcohol prohibition. Stop throwing good money after bad.


If you wanna fuck yourself using drugs or alcohol (really no difference other than one is deemed legal and the other is not*), go for, just be prepeared to pay stiff consequences.

I agree, end the bullshit WoD.

* excluding the already legal pharmaceutical meds that millions get ripped on every day.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:38:12 PM EDT
There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it.


I can go to the range and shoot all day, blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself.

Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?

You can't OD on shooting. Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in
your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely
to do, or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does.

These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner! You can NOT use them and
avoid coming to eventual harm!

I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the
others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed. I guess you might even
be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME
people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives. But only a fool would
believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or
use in our society.

CJ
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:40:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.


In that case I guess there's nothing wrong with a weeeeeee bit of practical liberalism?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:41:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.


In that case I guess there's nothing wrong with a weeeeeee bit of practical liberalism?


Take it to your state government. The feds have no place in the game.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:42:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.


In that case I guess there's nothing wrong with a weeeeeee bit of practical liberalism?


Take it to your state government. The feds have no place in the game.


This man knows what he is talking about.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:44:30 PM EDT
Actually the original poster is right about the legal issue. Waaaay back in the 1870's the supreme court declared that the Gov't had no right to regulate what people "ingest" into their body. Thats why all the laws in the early 20th century regarding drug regulation were from a "taxes" point of view, since they could not outright "prohibit" substances, they took the angle that they would no longer "ACCEPT" taxes on certain substances like Marijuana and cocaine. Therefore anyone caught with these drugs were guilty of "tax evasion."
The first federal law on Opium was the Harrison Narcotic TAX act. Eventually though the GOv't was given enough regulatory power that they just created a "schedule" system. Any drug they didn't like was just given a "schedule I" assignment.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:44:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.


In that case I guess there's nothing wrong with a weeeeeee bit of practical liberalism?


Take it to your state government. The feds have no place in the game.


+1
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:45:46 PM EDT
Nice post Jackie. Completely unspoiled. (sorry)
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:47:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it.


I can go to the range and shoot all day, blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself.

Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?

You can't OD on shooting. Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in
your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely
to do, or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does.

These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner! You can NOT use them and
avoid coming to eventual harm!

I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the
others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed. I guess you might even
be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME
people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives. But only a fool would
believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or
use in our society.

CJ


Why does it bother you so much what other people do to their body? As long as it isn't harming you, what does it matter?

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. "
-Thomas Jefferson
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:51:30 PM EDT
isnt this george soros plan/ doesnt he want to outlaw guns, and leagilize pot like he did in canada?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:52:04 PM EDT
AGNTSA
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 3:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2008 3:58:36 PM EDT by cobra-ak]
I wish the sale of pie would be legalized too, let's see, grass and ass on the menu in this economy would calm a lot of nerves.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:04:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.

so are glock 7's
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:12:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:17:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
isnt this george soros plan/ doesnt he want to outlaw guns, and leagilize pot like he did in canada?


My father is a doctor in Canada. He is a specialist but a patient asked for a prescription for medical marijuana. Not knowing anything about marijuana, he got a phone call from the Canadian agency responsible for distributing it. Apparently, he had prescribed about 5 years worth of marijuana. Next time, don't listen to the patient when they tell you how much marijuana to prescribe.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:22:03 PM EDT
I know the slippery slope arguments and all that, but honestly - if they just legalized weed, most of the calls for drug legalization would cease. Personally, I'd prefer that they all be legal (libertarian and all that), but even I'd shut the hell up about it if they just legalized pot.

I mean, come on. It's pot, for chrissakes.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:24:10 PM EDT
Some people are posting and...

posting and...

posting and...

Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:
I wish the sale of pie would be legalized too, let's see, grass and ass on the menu in this economy would calm a lot of nerves.


Yeah the War On Contractual Sex is bullshit too. Hell, its why the FBI was formed.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:25:29 PM EDT
If you want to mess up your life with drugs, go for it! Everybody who is out there doing drugs right now, is someone's child.
If you want a .gov program to keep people off drugs, bring in a DARE unit that actually works. Drill it into kids heads that drugs only make things worse.

Making drugs illegal only makes them taboo and expensive...and puts money in our enemy's hands.

I hope that they make drugs legal...and I hope a lot of people die. THEN I hope they keep drugs legal. With any luck, something will click. Sounds harsh? Lifes harsh.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:27:07 PM EDT
So if it were legal, then there would be more addicts, more people sharing needles and spreading disease, more unemployment, and more kids in our foster system because the parents were spending all their money on drugs instead of taking care of their kids.
I know addiction as a recovering alcoholic. I couldn't imagine the addictive nature of most of these drugs.
Legalizing these drugs would cost more in the long run than we will ever spend on trying to keep them out. We would have to have programs to help with addiction, expanded foster care for children of addicts, medical care for those that catch diseases as a result of drug use, and more all on the taxpayer's dime because most addicts can't afford health care.
Looking at all these negative impacts, and there are more still, can you honestly say that the positives outweigh the negatives?
Think about all the drug related problems we now have, and multiply it by 100 if drugs were legalized.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:28:58 PM EDT
What I dont understand is why people think Meth, Heroin and Crack should be legal, while medical drugs that solve the problem but cause other serious health problems should be banned.

Do you think the FDA would approve the selling of Heroin and Crack? No.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:34:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it.


I can go to the range and shoot all day, blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself.

Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?

You can't OD on shooting. Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in
your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely
to do, or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does.

These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner! You can NOT use them and
avoid coming to eventual harm!

I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the
others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed. I guess you might even
be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME
people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives. But only a fool would
believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or
use in our society.

CJ


Why does it bother you so much what other people do to their body? As long as it isn't harming you, what does it matter?




That response tells me two things: You have not witnessed a close familiy member or
friend destroy himself (or herself) with drugs.

And Thomas Jefferson did not have knowledge of modern-day narcotics and their effects,
and if he had, he would undoubtedly have seen their extreme dangers and taken a
distinctively different stance on them.


When you watch someone you once respected, admired, or even loved, turn from a fine
upstanding human being into a quivering lump of flesh that could not be trusted with
anything for any reason, due to the overwhelming desire for nothing but another fix,
then MAYBE you will begin to understand.

Those who have never seen what's in the sewers think they're just big clean pipes with
water in them. Absolutely disconnected from reality. You've got to at least visit the
world of the plumber to see what it's really like down there.

CJ
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:38:15 PM EDT
Yeah, i agree. No need for heroin or coke...or really any of that shit.
IMHO, with the advent of Marinol (THC pills) there is no reason to legalize weed. But, I also don't believe in the .gov telling me I can't smoke something that grows in my yard.
Needless to say, I take NO drugs. (aside from beer on saturday night and advil on a sunday morning...)

I guess my original point was/is, people bitch an awful lot about legalization. and I believe that many are right tht legalization would lead to welfare issues. The point is, there shouldn't be welfare. Why should I EVER pay for your dumb ass because you decided to shoot up? Let 'em rot. Scrooge? maybe. I have no tolerance for drug users.

people should be able to make their own mistakes. If yours happens to make you a junkie...better luck next time.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:40:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
You have to figure that when I posted my thread from Afghanistan, about the destruction of a few hundred tons of drugs, and a lot of people on this site had a hissy-fit that we destroyed it, that this thread will not go well...


Drugs are illegal for a reason.


Assault weapons are illegal for a reason.

Semi-automatic weapons are illegal for a reason.

Revolvers are illegal for a reason.

BB guns are illegal for a reason.

Pea-shooters are illegal for a reason.


I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs. Could you point me to that part please?


The Constitution isn't a list of rights. Its a list of powers of the government (mostly).

When you were looking through the document, did you find the part that stated the Federal government had the power to regulate the mere possession of chemicals?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?

I'll think I did a pretty shitty job as a parent?

Honestly kids can get into any number of currently legal yet unwholesome things.

I don't demand or want the government to provide a safety net.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:45:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I know the slippery slope arguments and all that, but honestly - if they just legalized weed, most of the calls for drug legalization would cease. Personally, I'd prefer that they all be legal (libertarian and all that), but even I'd shut the hell up about it if they just legalized pot.

I mean, come on. It's pot, for chrissakes.


I, and 5 years of my wasted youth, say +1
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:46:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?

It's always tough when idealism collides with reality.

CJ


How about a dose of reality for you? Right now your kids can't run down the store and buy a pack of cigarettes or a six pack of beer unless they're of age and can produce picture ID. Do you really think if pot is legalized it will be easier for kids to buy than beer and cigs?

Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:55:40 PM EDT
sheese..

you think making drugs illegal stops folks from using drugs?

you think making it illegal and your kids will hop down to the 711 to get some crack?

growing up in the 60s and 70s working in a drugstore and knowing folks that used illegal drugs illegally, legal drugs legally and legal drugs illegally and seeing absolutely no one not using drugs because it was against the law.. in fact sometimes the fact that it was illegal was a reason to try it... i say laws against drugs only make the worse folks in the world filthy rich, send tons of cash to cartels and terrorist organizations, tie up billions of dollars on law enforcement and cops enforcing drug laws..

its ridiculous.. if the laws stopped folks from using drugs i'd say make them illegal.. because that would work. but it dont..

so make it legal, teach your kids right, let folks who will destroy themselves with drugs do so.. they will anyway.. if not with crack.. then with alcolhol..
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:58:07 PM EDT
Hippy pot heads smell bad.

I may be getting reactionary as I get older, but these never ending whining litanies just plain piss me off. "Pot should be legalized because I WANNA." "Hookers and blow should be legalized because I WANNA." "Fucking children and small animals should be legal because I WANNA." WAH! These things should be cracked down on even harder not just because they're completely fucked up things to do, but especially because y'all are a bunch of pouty whiney little shits and it pleases me to piss in your cornflakes.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:58:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it.


I can go to the range and shoot all day, blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself.

Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?

You can't OD on shooting. Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in
your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely
to do, or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does.

These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner! You can NOT use them and
avoid coming to eventual harm!

I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the
others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed. I guess you might even
be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME
people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives. But only a fool would
believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or
use in our society.

CJ


Why does it bother you so much what other people do to their body? As long as it isn't harming you, what does it matter?




That response tells me two things: You have not witnessed a close familiy member or
friend destroy himself (or herself) with drugs.

And Thomas Jefferson did not have knowledge of modern-day narcotics and their effects,
and if he had, he would undoubtedly have seen their extreme dangers and taken a
distinctively different stance on them.


When you watch someone you once respected, admired, or even loved, turn from a fine
upstanding human being into a quivering lump of flesh that could not be trusted with
anything for any reason, due to the overwhelming desire for nothing but another fix,
then MAYBE you will begin to understand.

Those who have never seen what's in the sewers think they're just big clean pipes with
water in them. Absolutely disconnected from reality. You've got to at least visit the
world of the plumber to see what it's really like down there.

CJ


#1 - I have witnessed someone I was close to destroy themselves with cocaine. It wasn't fun to watch, but they did that to themselves. No one forced them to snort coke until their nose bled non-stop, no one forced them to coke themselves into a coma, and certainly no one forced him to start doing it in the first place.

#2 - Your argument against Thomas Jefferson's school of thought is also logically flawed. Let's reword your argument a little bit:

Thomas Jefferson did not have knowledge of modern-day machine guns, and their effects,
and if he had, he would undoubtedly have seen their extreme dangers and taken a
distinctively different stance on them.

Thomas Jefferson did not have knowledge of modern-day e-mail, instant messaging, telephones, cell phones, text messaging, and television and their effects,
and if he had, he would undoubtedly have seen their extreme dangers and taken a
distinctively different stance on them.

That person has the ability to ingest whatever chemical they want. Does it affect you? No? Then leave them alone.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 4:59:37 PM EDT
To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement. Get a fucking life and a job. Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:00:11 PM EDT
If you make drugs legal you better also repeal ALL gun laws.

I mean ALL of them as in the NFA '34, '68, '86, and '89.


I'm going to need some full auto and DD for the impending disorder. Legal hand grenades would be one of my choice weapons for CCW....good for breaking contact with the "crack hordes"

Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:01:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?


I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right?


I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON. It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline, though. I'll
agree with you on THAT part of the issue. But would you want your kids using what would
be legal if we legalized drugs?


Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions.



It's always tough when idealism collides with reality.



CJ


Like they do with alcohol and guns?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:01:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By huck:
To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement. Get a fucking life and a job. Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.


Well that was certainly logical. Certainly not an argument based on emotion. Not at all.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mnd:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
So tell me, if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin?

I'll think I did a pretty shitty job as a parent?

Honestly kids can get into any number of currently legal yet unwholesome things.

I don't demand or want the government to provide a safety net.


Not that it even stops it anyway.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:10:34 PM EDT


Originally Posted By huck:
To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement. Get a fucking life and a job. Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.


I have. Some from the Use side and some from the dealer side.

If there was no illegal market, the dealers would be alive.

If they were legal the users wouldn't have taken too much of a batch that was way more pure than they were used to getting. Another took what was supposed to be ecstacy, but got a smacked-up pill that killed her. They were not addicts, just casual users.

None of the users would have died with professionally produce, company-liable drugs.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:13:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leo6223:
If you make drugs legal you better also repeal ALL gun laws.

I mean ALL of them as in the NFA '34, '68, '86, and '89.


I'm going to need some full auto and DD for the impending disorder. Legal hand grenades would be one of my choice weapons for CCW....good for breaking contact with the "crack hordes"



Crack hordes my ass. Lets face it, the people that want to do it are doing it anyways. We ALL are paying for those decisions. Middle East countries kill drug users, and they still have drugs there, how are our "harsher punishments" going to get it done? You are fighting a supply and demand market, and you will lose.

Its comes down to personal responsibility. If I want to enjoy a rock of crack in the comforts of my own home, it is my business. Until my decision effects some other persons life liberty or happiness I should be left alone. DWI would still be a crime. A crime, that with much roomier prisons can now get serious about making people think twice before doing. If my kid wants to grab some heroin from a near by vending machine, it is MY responsibility as a parent to punish him, not .govs. I dont buy that knee jerk OMFG argument.

The mistake we are making is the same one we made during the prohibition. We have given power and money to truly evil people for feel good legislation. They thank you for your WOD.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 5:13:54 PM EDT
You guys are just a bunch of wanna-be dopers, that's all. Are you going to vote for Obama, too?


You are welcome to have your own opinion on the matter. But I think there is something extraordinarily fucked up about someone who supports the legalization of hard drugs.


Speaking for myself, I don't even smoke or drink. I have no use whatsoever for mind-altering substances.


CJ
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