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Posted: 5/25/2004 3:58:52 PM EST
Someone on an earlier thread mentioned that they got some new goodies from AIM Surplus. So I went to the site. They have CETMEs for around $340. Seems like a very good deal. So can anybody tell me it they are accurate? Reliable?

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 3:59:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:05:48 PM EST
Normally very accurate. A very good deal if your able to inspect them yourself. Make sure that it isn't a ground bolt and check the headspace with feeling guages. You should charge the handle back and lock it place. Slap it and let it fly forward. Pull the trigger. Now flip the rifle over and look through the mag well at the bolt. Slip your feeler guages in the gap between the bolt and bolt carrier. For a good head space it should read between .008 -.020 . Thats in thousandths. A ground bolt ( which you don't want has been ground on a surface grinder on the rear at the carried end It will apear to be sharp.. An unground bolt will have a camfer to it .It's easy to tell. I have one and it's been a fun rifle. Good luck Wardawg
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:08:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
Normally very accurate. A very good deal if your able to inspect them yourself. Make sure that it isn't a ground bolt and check the headspace with feeling guages. You should charge the handle back and lock it place. Slap it and let it fly forward. Pull the trigger. Now flip the rifle over and look through the mag well at the bolt. Slip your feeler guages in the gap between the bolt and bolt carrier. For a good head space it should read between .008 -.020 . Thats in thousandths. A ground bolt ( which you don't want has been ground on a surface grinder on the rear at the carried end It will apear to be sharp.. An unground bolt will have a camfer to it .It's easy to tell. I have one and it's been a fun rifle. Good luck Wardawg



Dayum, good info. Are you bringing that puppy to the shoot Sat?


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:10:28 PM EST
I myself would pass. Both of my friends who bought a CETME had nothing but problems. One returned his and the other just lived with it being very unreliable.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:13:32 PM EST
I know a person that bought one for that price. It was in such bad shape that after he put money into fixing up so that it would shoot he could have bought a real nice DSA FAL
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:13:33 PM EST
my buddy bought a spanish cetme and the fucker jams, almost set your watch by...............every 3 shots, regardless of anything he's done up to this point
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:16:33 PM EST
for the most part, they are junk. one of my friends got lucky and got good functioning one. but it was a total whore to take down.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:38:00 PM EST
Thanks guys. I quess I will have to pass. Since I will not be able to inspect it first I can't take WARDAWGS advice. That just sucks, seemed like a good deal.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 4:49:28 PM EST
Mine is great. Cast stainless receiver, no jams. Great rifle. I've been offered 700 dollars for it.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 6:31:48 PM EST
I LOVE mine. Paid $300 for it. Very reliable. I use alloy G3 mags in it. I know that I got lucky though. Go to gunboards.com, and check out the cetme forum, lots of great info there, and AIM is good people to work with. I say get one. If its fucked up a little, you can fix it. If its fucked up a lot, send it back. But its a hell of a fun toy when its all working right.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 7:10:42 PM EST
no flame,if you can afford it DSArms STG 58 solid weapon and well worth the money with Surplus ammo(loves Port.) it's a Smackapator!
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 7:25:26 PM EST
i have one with a stamped reciever. has worked 100% out of the box. The recoil seems to be lighter than my Fal's ,strange because I have heard Hk 91's kick pretty hard.

I think the new ones use a cast reciever now.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 7:33:09 PM EST
Bought one of the first batch that were imported. It looked very nice and the wood furniture was great compared to some of the later ones I've seen. The alloy mags I used were very tight fitting but other than that it worked fine.
In fact, the tightest iron sight group I ever shot was with that rifle. Three rounds went into a half inch not once, but twice. Lo and behold, I trade it because I don't like wood on my rifles. At least it went to a very good friend who enjoys it more than I did.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:01:02 PM EST
I also looked into getting a cetme but decided to pass. It is a MUST!! that you inspect it first hand, like someone else mentioned, buying through the web is a bad idea. I have seen some very nice ones at my gun shows, I have also seen some really bad ones. My suggestion would be to pass, you MAY find a good one, but the odds are against you. Honestly, do you want a rifle with such a wide range of reviews and opinions?
DSA rifles are beautiful
M1a's are my personal favorite for .308
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:02:08 PM EST
I have an early Cetme with the cast stainless steel receiver and it is reliable and a blast to shoot. It seems that it can be 50/50 on getting a good one, but Aim is great about returns so if you get a dud they will exchange it.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:07:41 PM EST
I saw one with alot of problems, after some work it runs good now.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:22:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:30:09 PM EST
Instead of buying a CETME, save up your money and buy a Springfield M1A. They work right outta the box, shoot great, and just plain kick ass. The CETME's I've seen at the gun shows look like they were assembled and finished by the howler monkeys at the zoo.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:39:59 PM EST
I love M1A's, but they are expensive as hell, and so are the mags. For the same money you can have a NICE G3 built by IGF or ORF, that uses a $3 magazine. Or a nice DSA FAL that uses a $6 magazine, if thats your persuasion.
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 8:41:30 PM EST
The CETME's I've seen at the gun shows look like they were assembled and finished by the howler monkeys at the zoo.



Thats pretty damn funny!
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 9:40:20 PM EST
I am tired of "junk" guns. Every time I have tried to buy an inexpensive gun, it turns out to be a real POS.
Just buy a M1A. If you can't afford one, buy a Yugo SKS, a quality rifle for $120.00

m4
Link Posted: 5/25/2004 10:00:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By doubleclaw:
The CETME's I've seen at the gun shows look like they were assembled and finished by the howler monkeys at the zoo.


Link Posted: 5/26/2004 3:34:23 AM EST
these rifles are a very good deal fo rthe money,, but as any rifle you should inspect it,,, buying over the web is BS,,, and is a crap shoot with ANY rifle,,,,,
not that many cetmes are as bad as you think they are.,.. MOST folks fall into this cat..""ohh wow i got an hk style rifle,,i paid 300$ but its gonna work like 3000$"""
umm yep that aint gonna happen... BUT if you take the,, to PROPERLY clean the rifle..learn how it works and how it functions your problems will be almost none.
a rifle that jams every 3 rounds is more than likely some easy fix that the shooter is to lazy or not smart enuff to figure out. same thing with 90% of the problems these rifles have,, if you handed my that 1500$ DSA stg,, after switchin from,port to s/a to santa barbra,, i wouldnt know jack shit about the gas adjust,,, does that mean cuz i cant get it to work,,cuz i DONT know how to operate the rifle that it is a POS..
the best bet also os to ask about a rifle on forum WHERE folks are dedicated to that RIFLE,, you dont go to a 9mm sub gun room and ask about barret 50's,,and expect toget REAL truthfull advice do you,, you will get half ass'd ""i heard this,,from a friends brothers 2nd cousin that read on the web that..."" advice which is useless,,
if you need info,,real info on a cetme or the HK clones visit gunboards cetme forum or perros cetmerifles.com,,,,



protus
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:03:35 AM EST
I have to agree with Protus on this one. Go to a site that the people are Cetme people to get a true feel for them. Hell you can get bad reviews on AR-15's just about everyplace but AR15.com. That don't meen they are bad. And ask anyone if you can hit anything with an AK any place but an AK forum and people will tell you you can't hit anything past 50 yards.

Yes you might have to tweek a Cetme to get it to work but once you do it is a very accurate reliable 7.62x51 battle rifle.
Find out all the pros and cons from people that own and shoot them. Come to www.gunboards.com and visit the Cetme and FR-8 Forum.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 5:23:00 AM EST
My cetme , is very reliable. I have replaced the Bolt rollers to give me better headspace , and replaced a old return spring.And also had a hammer spring break. Fair wear and tear. The Cetme is a WWII design really.From Nazi Germany. After the War the designer shopped his system around but not mant takers. Everybody was broke, and had lots of small arms. Spain bought into the design. When Germay had there falling out with FN FAL over building in Germany ( so I heard ) they picked up on the roller system and had HK buld it with a few changes. It, really still the same rifle. HK fame grew off the design from another person.IMO.

Now what I would do is save up the extra money and get a G3 clone from ORF .I think like $700-$800 . I think. G3 parts are plentiful.The design is extremly rugged and reliable. A delay roller Battle rifle is a must have in every gun collectors/ shooters collection. Im in the middle of building a G3 clone as we speak. All parts are going to be nearly new, and I'll have $900 in it. Best of luck to ya, WarDawg
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 5:43:13 AM EST
Best I can put together talking to some folks is that the early stamped Century CETMEs had major issues. Since then Century tightened up the die on the stamped receiver and if anything IMHO too tight. There was also an issue with the front sight being off to one side which is a biotch to fix. This too was supposably fixed.

It's taken me quite a bit of cycling to losen my CETME up but it has turned out to be one fine shooting little gun. It's fairly reliable and with a surprisingly low recoil for the size.

That's the good news now heres the bad. It's not a tack driver but I guess the design was never intended to be so it's not a M1A1 by a long shot and yes pun intended. I kind of think of it as the AK of .308s in this regard, inexpensive, throws the rounds down range, and somewhat acurate.

Regardless it has been a fine addition to my collection and a fun shooter. If anything it has given me the fever to want a FAL.

Tj
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:13:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:25:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:30:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

This is just not true.

The problems with the CETMEs are not that they are not properly cleaned and maintained by the owner.

The problems are that they use a substandard non spec receiver and in most cases parts from a very worn militarily retired rifle that is 30-40 years old. Then they are built by hack smiths using hand tools (CETMEs and HKs were never meant to be built that way) and crap grade 922r parts.

They are not built using spec parts, they are not built to spec and that is why most of them end up being a boat anchor. They are junl, the only people who like them are the ones who don't realize they are junk because it happens to be the nicest rifle they own.
They think just because they can make it cycle ammunition it is now a reliable rifle.



as posted previously, i owned one. i happened to like it. and it was not the nicest rifle i owned at the time. my advice would be to find someone who has one...shoot it, and decide for yourself.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:36:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
They are junl, the only people who like them are the ones who don't realize they are junk because it happens to be the nicest rifle they own.

They think just because they can make it cycle ammunition it is now a reliable rifle.



I like mine and its not the nicest rifle I own. I bought it from a board member and had a chance to shoot it and knew the full history of the rifle though. Its never had any problems and it will shoot softball sized groups at 100 yards.

If somone was wanting one .308 MBR a CETME wouldn' be the way to go though. A DSA or Ohio Rapid Fire FAL would be a much better choice. I got mine because I knew it was reliable, reasonably accurate, and its something else fun to shoot at the range.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:36:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/26/2004 7:39:52 AM EST by BayEagle]
I own one. I love it.

I did a lot of research and shopping before buying one. Apparently I got a good one. The bolt wasn't ground, the sites were zeroed, bore was great. The only malfs I've had were mag related. Mine uses the HK Alloy mags (which are also inexpensive, $2.50 per) but has a little trouble with Cetme mags.

Try one out. I was at a range yesterday and a couple folks tried mine. It's a fun shooter.

ETA - an RO at the range showed me a quarter he shot at 150 yards with a Cetme. Had a nice .308 divot taken out right where George Washingon's wig is.

Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:54:24 AM EST
""Please do not teach history when you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.""

then why,,,, did the 1st g3's roll out saying cetme G3 on them,??

as for the used parts ,,outta spec us made stuff,, yeah that is true,,it is also true with ALL the clones no matter where they are made.

"" They are junl, the only people who like them are the ones who don't realize they are junk because it happens to be the nicest rifle they own.

They think just because they can make it cycle ammunition it is now a reliable rifle""

i doubt this m8,, my cetme is by far not even close to being my nicest rifle,, as are some of the other cetme owners i know,, they have stuff that is 3 times better and cost twice as much but still shoot theirs and own more than one,and ask for more,,,



""This is just not true.

The problems with the CETMEs are not that they are not properly cleaned and maintained by the owner.""


OK well then explain to me why folks have complianed that their rifle wont eject or such and they had to do what clean the freakin flutes,, or the inside,,,alot of ppl just do not clean these as well as they should when they get them from century becuase they think it is a ""NEW"" rifle,,, again..this falls back on to knowing your rifle and how it works,,you cant clean it well if ya dont know how to take down the b/c or even how to remove the chargeing handle now can you....
thats is the probelm,, if you go to a cetme board you will see that there is NONE of this rifle bashing that you see here,,, ohhh my ar is the best,,ak's rule,,balh blah junk they are forums that you can go to ask a ? and not get flamed ,,, If you want to know accurate real info go to them nboards and you will see,, folks there will tell you ""ohh yeah mine was a pos untill i changed out the recoil spring ect"" it happens ,,

...anyway,,enuff of this mine dogs bigger than yer dog bullshit.
point is this,,, findout as much as you can on the rifle you want to buy(cetme fal,ak,ar) do your homework find out what to look for,,, and use common sense, if ya dont want to take the chance,,buy something else,, maybe one of them wanna be cetme clones,,, what are they called ..ohhh wait,,, HK's thats it,,,,



Link Posted: 5/26/2004 7:54:46 AM EST
Mine is not the finest rifle I own so get off your allmighty throne. It is however not the piece of junk you claim them to be. Yes they are built with an out of spec reciever and many are built with worn out parts. But they can be made into very reliable and accurate shooters. Would I recomend one over an M1a? No but I would not say they are a boat anchor either.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:04:09 AM EST
styer history buff
a cetme he will not own
HK the real clone


protus
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:07:33 AM EST
Quick, somebody run get some popcorn.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:27:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:32:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:37:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:40:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:45:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:51:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 8:55:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
And there is no flaming because I doubt one single person on that forum actually owns a CETME



There are actually a few owners of MARS CETMEs over there. I have shot one myself.

Link Posted: 5/26/2004 12:33:35 PM EST
My CETME also Kicks ASS, and has NEVER jamed on me!

As for History: The German military briefly used the CETME & the first G-3's were NOT H&K but manufactured by Rheinmetall. HK production came later.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 1:04:43 PM EST
few tid bits,,, from a spanish site


""1948: The CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center) is conceived, as a medium to counter the effects that the international isolation was having on the army.
1949: The CETME is created.
1952: The demonstrations begin in Spain and Germany
1956: The manufacturing of the Modelo A begins.
1957: Germany adopts the CETME assault rifle. The Spanish Army adopts the CETME assault rifle.
1958: The manufacturing of the Modelo B begins. The Navy and the Air Force adopt the CETME assault rifle.
1959: The first joint-development accord with Germany is signed.
1962: The second joint-development accord with Germany is signed.
1964: The 7'62x51mm NATO cartridge is adopted by the Spanish Armed Forces. The manufacturing of the Modelo C begins.
1966: The development of the Modelo L begins.
1976: The manufacturing of the Modelo C stops.
""

""the CETME was introduced to Europe by Nederlansche Wapen Munitiefabrik, and only Germany showed interest on it. At the end of 1957, H&K signed an accord to co-develop the rifle.""


"" From 1961 on, the mark CETME dissapeared from the German models. ""



"""Germany H&K refined the CETME design into the rifle that would be the G3 (Gewehr 3) when it was adopted by the German military in 1959"""

the cetme was adopted by the germans,,not the G3, then after spain produced them for HK for at least 2-3 yrs did the germans finally take over produceing their own G3.(which at the time was identical to the model c cetme)
from your info on 59' as the year they took over ,, is incorrect as 61' is when cetme stopped making the model C for germany.

the point is cetme,,not HK designed and produced the model C and first G3's for HK,,,,
the enigineers that made this rifle were NOT all german,, and with out the backing of the spainish gov. and the weapons industry HK would have never came about,,meaning germany would be either stuck with fals,,which didnt work outto well to start or something ,,better maybe like a french mas 49/56 maybe??? :) but off course that would be the best gun in the world then wouldnt it.

a real post ban cetme or mars is just as on par as a G3 of the era,,,

and once you get yer head outta yer gun snob ass maybe you can offer folks good advice insted of the negative bs yer spewing,,,

Link Posted: 5/26/2004 3:53:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
And there is no flaming because I doubt one single person on that forum actually owns a CETME



There are actually a few owners of MARS CETMEs over there. I have shot one myself.




Why did you shoot him?




Sorry, but that line was just asing for it,
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:05:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:17:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:24:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:31:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By protus:
few tid bits,,, from a spanish site


""1948: The CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center) is conceived, as a medium to counter the effects that the international isolation was having on the army.
1949: The CETME is created.
1952: The demonstrations begin in Spain and Germany
1956: The manufacturing of the Modelo A begins.
1957: Germany adopts the CETME assault rifle. The Spanish Army adopts the CETME assault rifle.
1958: The manufacturing of the Modelo B begins. The Navy and the Air Force adopt the CETME assault rifle.
1959: The first joint-development accord with Germany is signed.
1962: The second joint-development accord with Germany is signed.
1964: The 7'62x51mm NATO cartridge is adopted by the Spanish Armed Forces. The manufacturing of the Modelo C begins.
1966: The development of the Modelo L begins.
1976: The manufacturing of the Modelo C stops.
""

""the CETME was introduced to Europe by Nederlansche Wapen Munitiefabrik, and only Germany showed interest on it. At the end of 1957, H&K signed an accord to co-develop the rifle.""


"" From 1961 on, the mark CETME dissapeared from the German models. ""



"""Germany H&K refined the CETME design into the rifle that would be the G3 (Gewehr 3) when it was adopted by the German military in 1959"""

the cetme was adopted by the germans,,not the G3, then after spain produced them for HK for at least 2-3 yrs did the germans finally take over produceing their own G3.(which at the time was identical to the model c cetme)
from your info on 59' as the year they took over ,, is incorrect as 61' is when cetme stopped making the model C for germany.

the point is cetme,,not HK designed and produced the model C and first G3's for HK,,,,
the enigineers that made this rifle were NOT all german,, and with out the backing of the spainish gov. and the weapons industry HK would have never came about,,meaning germany would be either stuck with fals,,which didnt work outto well to start or something ,,better maybe like a french mas 49/56 maybe??? :) but off course that would be the best gun in the world then wouldnt it.

a real post ban cetme or mars is just as on par as a G3 of the era,,,

and once you get yer head outta yer gun snob ass maybe you can offer folks good advice insted of the negative bs yer spewing,,,





Well the above doesn't mention that it was German Mauser engineers who brought the idea to CETME so it refutes NOTHING I said. Please understand and comprehend that GERMANS went to Spain and built the CETME.

The CETME was based upon the Mauser Stg45M prototype which they TOOK TO SPAIN.

Spain did produce a rifle for the Germans, the G2 NOT the G3. And they may very well have produced it until 1961, but the G3 was adopted in 1959.

Mauser engineers were only in Spain because arms production in German was outlawed. As soon as arms production was allowed they went BACK TO GERMANY.

Germany already had a prototype, they just weren't allowed to build guns in Germany so they did it in Spain. Spain contributed virtually NOTHING to the Stg45M/CETME/G3 project except the facility to produce it.

20 years prior Germany tested Blitzkreig tactics in Spains Condor War, do you also assert that Spain invented and developed Blitzkreig tactics by the same logic?

Germany never would have stuck with FALs, they already has the Stg45M and just needed time and a place to develop it. In the meantime they used FALs.

Also there is a big differene between a preban and a postban CETME. The preban in on par with the HKG3, the postban is not even close.

Get your head out of your ass and figure out you are wrong.




Did anyone actually read all of this shit?? Looks like two junior high school nerds having the GREAT DEBATE CONTEST.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:34:54 PM EST
Actually yes I read it all.............

Reading Steyr's history lessons is always educational and makes me happy I don't collect authentic weapons but simply good shooters for if I did I would have to chuck half of them out.

Tj
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