Posted: 4/15/2009 5:24:03 AM EDT
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I was in a small PO earlier today and noticed a sign I hadn't seen there before. It stated firearms and other weapons were not permitted on Postal Property. I thought this was the case but now I know I guess.
How many carry on postal property? |
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Even if people do carry into a PO, do you think they would admit to that crime here? IIRC the Post Office falls under its own laws so they can say "No guns" and can fuck you up of you dont adibe. I do, i see no signs and my state says i am good to go. Really? I had not heard about that and i was under the impression that all POs were under the same laws; i.e. not state regulated.... Gonna have to do some research on that one... |
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Do you have an official purpose for carrying? Title 39 CFR 232.1 (l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes. (p) Penalties and other law. (1) Alleged violations of these rules and regulations are heard, and the penalties prescribed herein are imposed, either in a Federal district court or by a Federal magistrate in accordance with applicable court rules. Questions regarding such rules should be directed to the regional counsel for the region involved. (2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated. q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security force shall exercise the powers provided by 18 U.S.C. 3061(c)(2) and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property and persons thereon |
That was a stupid question
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Even if people do carry into a PO, do you think they would admit to that crime here? IIRC the Post Office falls under its own laws so they can say "No guns" and can fuck you up of you dont adibe. I do, i see no signs and my state says i am good to go. Really? I had not heard about that and i was under the impression that all POs were under the same laws; i.e. not state regulated.... Gonna have to do some research on that one... I was being sarcastic  , but the odd thing is i have gone to several and only one had the sticker up and said that we can not carry in there. The others said they know of no rules/laws stopping legal citizen from carrying in the PO.
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Even if people do carry into a PO, do you think they would admit to that crime here? IIRC the Post Office falls under its own laws so they can say "No guns" and can fuck you up of you dont adibe. I do, i see no signs and my state says i am good to go. Just because you are not prohibited by the state from carrying there does not mean you are not prohibited by the Federal government from carrying there. |
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That is bad news! Don't do it! It is a .gov building! You can't carry in .gov buildings!!! You should already know things like this before you start carrying  I never did carry @ PO and knew it was not legal. I just had never seen this poster before, that's all! |
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TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS HEADING Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities STATUTE (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to - (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. My post office has that posted too, but they left off part (d) |
| federal law over rides state laws, a Post office is a federal reservation, if posted, it is a no gun zone, same as a federal courthouse. to the best of my knowledge, course the whole issue is Concealed carry, open carry into a federal building of any kind, prepare to kiss the floor via Local Leo or FeDCops |
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From what I know, most Post Offices are leased buildings that are not owned by the Gov't, especially in small towns. So I'm not real sure that the Federal law applies to that since they do not own the building.
Just throwing that out there. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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From what I know, most Post Offices are leased buildings that are not owned by the Gov't, especially in small towns. So I'm not real sure that the Federal law applies to that since they do not own the building. Just throwing that out there. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The building I was in this morning is a leased building with a couple of apartments in it as well. I guess that makes them Fed property if they hold the lease?????? |
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Quoted: From what I know, most Post Offices are leased buildings that are not owned by the Gov't, especially in small towns. So I'm not real sure that the Federal law applies to that since they do not own the building. Just throwing that out there. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yes, it would apply as the area they conduct business is considered the Post Office. That being said... what I teach in my classes is this: As 'official purposes' is not defined you can take it two ways. -law enforcement -one authorized to carry a firearm The first one I then say: (a)-is the cop 'official' because he has the authority to carry? -or- (b)-is the cop only 'official' when he's called in as part of his job? If (a), then I also have the authority because of CCW. If (b), then an off duty cop would be illegal carrying in the PO. And a cop that stops by for stamps would be guilty as well. So my recommendation is: http://www.usps.com JUST DON'T GO IN THE PHYSICAL POST OFFICE... THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO SCREW YOU. You can ship from The UPS Store and that's perfectly legal. |
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TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS HEADING Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities STATUTE (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to - (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. My post office has that posted too, but they left off part (d) This. If you are lawfully carrying your CCW, then you should be OK. However, I don't think this has ever been tested with a case. |
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There are signs in mine. I try to do my postal business off site, but occasionally I have to go in. When I do my normal procedure is to disarm before entering, but I've been known to be forgetful and realize I'm still carrying when I'm standing in line, when that happens I just complete my business and leave, no puppies were hurt and the FBI never put in an appearance. |
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I pulled this down a while back and thought it was a pretty good analysis. Seems to call the "other lawful purpose" argument into doubt.
PDF link |
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TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS HEADING Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities STATUTE (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to - (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. My post office has that posted too, but they left off part (d) This. If you are lawfully carrying your CCW, then you should be OK. However, I don't think this has ever been tested with a case. That may get you out of prosecution under that section but it is still prohibited by CFRs. And just because something is not unlawful under the USC does not make it an automatic lawful exception to a CFR. |