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Posted: 5/20/2002 10:26:52 AM EDT
Are these legal for civilians to purchase? How much are they? How much are they used? Anything else that I should be looking for if I were to buy it used?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:30:43 AM EDT
Depends on where you are. In VA they are legal. Lots, but depends on threat level protection. The more protective lighter-weight stuff will cost upwards of a thousand bucks. Still lots, and the kevlar degrades through exposure to heat and moisture, you're better off with a new vest. Yeah. Don't look for anything because you don't want a used vest.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:48:06 AM EDT
I live in Oregon. It was a sheriff's vest from last year. But its been sitting in a garage for over a year now. You say a the kevlar degrades over time, cause this jacket has been exposed to the garage elements (which are almost as bad as leaving it outside), se then its probably not worth it then. Doh, I have my old computer I was going to see if I could barter with him.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:57:00 AM EDT
I shot my 10 year old "point blank" with my .45 and it stopped the bullet. That vest has been in my trunk for the last 5 years. I'd say they last longer than we think.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:00:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By P806: I shot my 10 year old "point blank" with my .45 and it stopped the bullet. That vest has been in my trunk for the last 5 years. I'd say they last longer than we think.
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You did WHAT?!?!?! I hope to God Almighty that you are kidding!!! That is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard!!
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:17:39 AM EDT
FYI - "Point Blank" is a very good brand of bullet proof vest, Uhlek. Considered one of the best. Mike
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:27:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By P806: I shot my 10 year old "point blank" with my .45 and it stopped the bullet. That vest has been in my trunk for the last 5 years. I'd say they last longer than we think.
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Hmmmm. I guess people are reading this in one of two ways. Either you strapped your 5 year old Point Blank vest on your 10 year old kid and fired a .45 at him. Or You had a 10 year old Point Blank vest that has been in the trunk for the last 5 years and fired a .45 at it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:27:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Uhlek:
Originally Posted By P806: I shot my 10 year old "point blank" with my .45 and it stopped the bullet. That vest has been in my trunk for the last 5 years. I'd say they last longer than we think.
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You did WHAT?!?!?! I hope to God Almighty that you are kidding!!! That is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard!!
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I thought the same thing and had to re-read the posting a number of times. I don't think he meant that he shot his 10 year old child, at point blank range. I think (and hope/pray) that he meant to say: I shot my 10 year old "Point Blank Brand Vest".... [:)] Neil
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:29:38 AM EDT
It's either that or P806's kid is a real good sport about it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:45:48 AM EDT
Does anyone make a high quality vest that looks like a common down vest?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:07:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:29:43 PM EDT
So what do you guys think is a going price for a used class 1 vest?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:18:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: So what do you guys think is a going price for a used class 1 vest?
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Considering that a Class I vest is only rated for .22 LR and standard .38 Special, why would you want it, especially a used one? Is it a funding issue? [url=http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/armor/nij_lev.html]NIJ Body Armor Ratings[/url]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:23:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: So what do you guys think is a going price for a used class 1 vest?
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I sincerely hope you don’t mean an NIJ threat level I vest. These are rated to stop a 158 grain lead RN .38 Special going 850 ft/sec and a 40 grain .22LR going 1050 ft./sec. By today’s standards, this is an inadequate rating. IMHO, a used level I vest is virtually worthless. Unless this is an extremely old vest (and if it’s a level I, it may be), it should have a date of manufacture stamped or handwritten on it. You may have to remove the ballistic panels from the carrier to find the date. Incidentally, Kevlar vests don’t deteriorate with age. They deteriorate from use and from exposure to things such as bleach and ultraviolet light. Unfortunately, the only way to see if it’s still good is to shoot it - which, of course, destroys it in the process (and bangs up the 10 year old kid wearing it!!). Technically, there really isn’t any such a thing as a bulletproof vest. A more accurate description is body armor or ballistic vest.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:26:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garr: Does anyone make a high quality vest that looks like a common down vest?
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Are you looking for something like this: [url]www.secondchance.com/prod.asp?action=prod&prodID=21[/url] This is just the carrier, the ballistic panels are separate. Most body armor manufactures make something like this. You can also get vests that look like raincoats, dress vests, and aprons (for folks who work in a 7-11).
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:27:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:28:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wadman: It's either that or P806's kid is a real good sport about it.
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LOL, cracks my sh!t up
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:32:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wadman:
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: So what do you guys think is a going price for a used class 1 vest?
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Considering that a Class I vest is only rated for .22 LR and standard .38 Special, why would you want it, especially a used one? Is it a funding issue? [url=http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/armor/nij_lev.html]NIJ Body Armor Ratings[/url]
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Maby he is planning on getting into a gunfight with Imbrellego [:D] BWAHAHAHAHA I crack myself up ! echo6
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:35:05 PM EDT
Yea, you are correct. I said that not knowing exactly the different levels mean. I assumed (only weak minds assume) that level one was for smaller caliber pistol rounds, didn't realize the different lvls started so low. It was sheriff issue so I'm assuming it is lvl 2 or 3. I need to look more into it. I also didn't realize how cheap used armor is, I expected it to be more, no wonder why there was a comment made to just go out and buy it new, price tags on your life is almost a moot point. THX again guys (or gals)
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:29:27 PM EDT
Geeze Guys, I didn't mean to give you a scare! Point Blank= 10 year old vest, with the carrier worn and torn. Just shot the VEST only, one shot....bought a new carrier and back in the trunk it goes.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:39:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 7:41:09 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
Fella cops I shoot IPSC with took an old "Point Blank" vest Level 2 I think (expired '87), and shot it with a 38 Super w/115gr FMJ loaded to 1550 fps and the vest did poor job stopping the bullet. They folded the vest over a few times, shot it with 5.56 (USA from an AR), went through it like it was not even there. I would not call them "bullet proof", maybe bullet resistant to a degree.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:01:45 PM EDT
I would not pay very much for a used vest. Some vest companies will let you ship the vest back to them and they will re-seal the kevlar and issue a new date for it. A used lvl 2 vest should go for around $100 if it is in good shape including the carrier. medcop
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:01:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By medcop: ... Some vest companies will let you ship the vest back to them and they will re-seal the kevlar and issue a new date for it. ...
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Medcop: I assume the new date is clearly identified as the date the carrier was resealed, not the date of manufacture. Anyway, any idea which companies do this?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:03:02 PM EDT
Well, as long as the subject is up, I've got a couple questions for any armor 'gurus'. I've noticed that these vests are made of different materials, mostly spectra(?) and a couple different types of kevlar, and are typically layered in panels. My questions are 1) is the rating of a particular vest determined by the material it's made of, or the number of layers? 2) Is there a cumulative effect to layering vests of the same or different ratings? i.e. if you wore a level 2A vest on top of another level 2A vest, would you now have the equivalent of a level 3A or even 4 vest? Any input would be appreciated. Dan
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:17:11 PM EDT
Danforth, Regarding your first question, I believe a vest's rating is base on the level of protection, not layers and/or materials. Vests made of different materials could be of the same rating while two vests of the same material could be rated differently if one is designed for a higher degree of protection than the other. Please check out the like provided in previous reply.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:50:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199:
Originally Posted By medcop: ... Some vest companies will let you ship the vest back to them and they will re-seal the kevlar and issue a new date for it. ...
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Medcop: I assume the new date is clearly identified as the date the carrier was resealed, not the date of manufacture. Anyway, any idea which companies do this?
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I have the info saved some place on my computer. I will look for it and post it and send you an email. I want to think it is Safariland, but I am not 100% sure. medop
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:00:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Danforth: ... 1) is the rating of a particular vest determined by the material it's made of, or the number of layers? ...
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Just to elaborate a bit on Wadman’s post. In theory, neither. The rating is determined (or verified, if you wish) by having two examples of the vest shot by an NIJ approved laboratory using NIJ standards. The NIJ doesn’t care about the ballistic materials per se (though it does have some vest construction standards); its basic concern is simply that the vest stops the designated test rounds. In reality, both the ballistic material and the number of layers largely determine the vest’s effectiveness and thus the rating it will receive. With Kevlar, other factors affecting the rating include the weave of the fabric (threads per inch), how the layers are attached to each other, and whether or not the materials are waterproofed.
... 2) Is there a cumulative effect to layering vests of the same or different ratings? ...
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No. There is no numeric correlation between the values. The threat levels could just as easily be letters (a,b,c, etc.), rather than numbers.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:07:05 PM EDT
Medcop: Thanks. It just sounds, well, strange. If you want, you could try the instant message thingy rather than e-mail. (That's assuming I can figure out how to retrieve the message - but I guess I need to learn.)
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:58:22 PM EDT
I was told by the rep from point blank that some body armor can be sent back to the manufacturer to get re-certified. I don't remember how much it cost. As far as the carriers go, you can make the carrier its anything, really. An officer in my squad bought another duty shirt, and had the collar removed, front stiched up, and had the shirt converted into a carrier, He says having the vest on the outside of the uniform works great for the heat. The pockets and front of his uniform are functional. I am thinking about it, except for the department uniform shirts cost $75.00 $&$#& a piece. I will wait for the uniform allowance.
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