Posted: 3/8/2017 7:31:33 PM EDT
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Some old timer just told me that he could fill a black powder muzzle loader all the way up the barrel of the gun then cram a bullet in the bore and lite that bitch off and all it would do is burn slowly through the barrel.
Seems like b.s. to me but sometimes my pre conceived ideas of how shit works is fucked up. So is that totally safe or is the old geezer holding a pipe bomb with no fuze? |
| Sounds possible. If the powder ignites in the rear and the ball is pushed out of the barrel before any real amount of pressure builds up. That would leave the powder to propel just the powder that's in front of it igniting it along the way. I dont know though. I have a rusty old muzzle loader bbl I can test it tomorrow if you want. It's not rusted enough to have an impact on the strength, but the pitting in the bore I doubt it would ever shoot well again. |
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Sounds possible. If the powder ignites in the rear and the ball is pushed out of the barrel before any real amount of pressure builds up. That would leave the powder to propel just the powder that's in front of it igniting it along the way. I dont know though. I have a rusty old muzzle loader bbl I can test it tomorrow if you want. Just video it and leave instructions for next of kin please. |
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Just video it and leave instructions for next of kin please. Quoted:
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Sounds possible. If the powder ignites in the rear and the ball is pushed out of the barrel before any real amount of pressure builds up. That would leave the powder to propel just the powder that's in front of it igniting it along the way. I dont know though. I have a rusty old muzzle loader bbl I can test it tomorrow if you want. Just video it and leave instructions for next of kin please. i'll light it with cannon fuse and run away. Im not sure there's even a breech block on it now that I think about it. I could weld something on though. |
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Well...the old-timer was both right and wrong.
Using normal black powder and hand ramming a bullet at the end of a rifle barrel is a recipe for Bad Shit to happen. However, pyrotechs used compressed fine grain black powder rammed hard with a mallet as timed fuses, they're called spolettes. The difference is a much finer grain powder and is rammed much harder in the spolettes than would be possible in a long rifle barrel. The coarser rifle powder will leave small voids in the black powder column, leading to flashover and complete ignition of the charge. I repeat, Bad Shit. Don't do it. |
| lol. Not true in the least. black powder burns the same compressed or not, but as the first grain burns the heat and gas are lighting more, flame front travels up the barrel and exponential growth of the expanding gas, until it ruptures to release gas. I predict rupture in the first 10 inches, and still enough directional blast out of the muzzle to hurt anyone behind it, |
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Some old timer just told me that he could fill a black powder muzzle loader all the way up the barrel of the gun then cram a bullet in the bore and lite that bitch off and all it would do is burn slowly through the barrel. Seems like b.s. to me but sometimes my pre conceived ideas of how shit works is fucked up. So is that totally safe or is the old geezer holding a pipe bomb with no fuze? You would be correct. He's full of it. Tell him to grab one of his muzzleloaders and prove it. I'd bet he'd have some reason why he can't. If he's actually stupid enough to do it, run. |
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Guy is sorta right. You can fill a barrel up with black powder, set it off, and you will get a boom, smoke, and better than half the powder will be laying on the ground un-burnt.
Now if you put a bullet in the end of a barrel full of BP you are retarded as you are then compressing the charge. Then all kinds of things come into play such as bore size, barrel thickness, and even how the breach is attached but all things being GTG in that regard most of the power would end-up on the ground un-burnt.....I just don't know where grandpa would end-up. I have a 7 bore English shotgun that uses a 2X2 square charge...Two ounces of powder and two ounces of shot....And I could push it higher if i could stand it.. 
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I think he's full of it, and holding a pipe bomb. Dare him, bet him a beer or something. This. If an accidental double load of 9mm will blow apart a modern handgun I can't see anything different. Black powder with a correct loading generates enough pressure to turn its projectile lethal at distance. Can't imagine and intentional extreme load would go well. If it did work people have had plenty of time to discover that and tell everyone else. |
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The conversation was in,regards to civil war era weapons so black powder. Not a modern equivalent. I'm going to guess it's unsafe with any powder, but more unsafe with real BP. Many years ago I shot a SASS match where an explosive breach of a bank vault was simulated by detonating a "black powder" filled lightbulb in a bucket to fill a room with smoke. In the testing phases, it was found that blackpoweder substitutes (pyrodex, etc.) would give you a little boom and fill the room with smoke. However, when it was tried with real black powder, even with only the containment of a lightbulb, there was noticeably more concussion. If someone is going to try this, detonate from far away and behind cover. Overhead as well because that thing is going to come down if it goes up. |
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If the ball were right at the end, it would come out before serious pressure built and there would likely be a huge fiery cloud as unburnt powder was expelled and then ignited midair. Could be a neat party trick. Maybe... Unless I am wrong and it goes terrible You can blow up a black powder muzzle loader if you only short start your ball on top of a normal powder charge. |
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Science
No boom but fuck holding it  Smokeless Powder in a Muzzleloader? |
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I seem to recall... from a long time ago... that the burn rate for black powder was constant. That the burn rate, unlike smokeless powder, did not depend on the pressure. Because black powder is technically an explosive, while smokeless is a deflagrant or propellant.
That doesn't mean that he's right, though. If there's enough surface area burning at once, the pressure might get too high. But it's fire and explosions and guns, so we'd better test it. |
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Imagine that. 
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You can blow up a black powder muzzle loader if you only short start your ball on top of a normal powder charge. Because of the air space and the projectile is farther down the bore. We're talking about a compressed charge with the projectile almost all the way out to the muzzle. It may or may not blow up. Likely the ball would be pushed out well before most of the powder burned and then youd just have alot of smoke, flame an unburned granules shot out. Now, put a 60 grain charge on a 28" barrel and seat a minie ball halfway down... different story. |
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Heh, well alright then. |
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I seem to recall... from a long time ago... that the burn rate for black powder was constant. That the burn rate, unlike smokeless powder, did not depend on the pressure. Because black powder is technically an explosive, while smokeless is a deflagrant or propellant. That doesn't mean that he's right, though. If there's enough surface area burning at once, the pressure might get too high. But it's fire and explosions and guns, so we'd better test it. HP White report of blown up barrel |
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I don't think it is going to "burn slowly" but it won't blow up the barrel based on everything I've ever read about this. I think it was Don Getz that did some testing of his black powder barrels that included filling them up all the way. A lot of the powder gets pushed out.
Now, if you short start a ball and have a big air gap, or use smokeless powder- yup, you'll be sorry you did that. |
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If the ball were right at the end, it would come out before serious pressure built and there would likely be a huge fiery cloud as unburnt powder was expelled and then ignited midair. Could be a neat party trick. Maybe... Unless I am wrong and it goes terrible This is my thought. The pressure built up near the breech would push the powder and ball out before the burned powder could build up enough pressure to pipe bomb the barrel. |
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I seem to recall... from a long time ago... that the burn rate for black powder was constant. That the burn rate, unlike smokeless powder, did not depend on the pressure. Because black powder is technically an explosive, while smokeless is a deflagrant or propellant. That doesn't mean that he's right, though. If there's enough surface area burning at once, the pressure might get too high. But it's fire and explosions and guns, so we'd better test it. I think it would not rupture the barrel, if say, you used real black in a graulation that is made for that bore and the proper weight projectile. I saw a documentary about an engineer name Gerald Bull. Guy did work on long barreled "super guns". He originally pitched his project to NASA, but his only taker was Saddam...Isrealis deaded him. :) Theory was you could launch really heavy payloads into space (or Haifa) by using slow burning black powder charges...you just needed really long barrels to build projectile acceleration. If you chopped off one of Bull's super guns, right above the projectile, i don't think it would've exploded. I think real bp ffg, under a 50 cal ball would not be a bomb. |
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Sounds possible. If the powder ignites in the rear and the ball is pushed out of the barrel before any real amount of pressure builds up. That would leave the powder to propel just the powder that's in front of it igniting it along the way. I dont know though. I have a rusty old muzzle loader bbl I can test it tomorrow if you want. It's not rusted enough to have an impact on the strength, but the pitting in the bore I doubt it would ever shoot well again. That logic is like a family friend's that thought he could feed his Xmas tree into the fireplace as it burned...really smart guy - computer genius...and servpro customer shortly thereafter. 
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Well, I know a guy that has a cva 50cal barrel that is junk.
A bit of smaller fuze and a long cannon fuze. I have always wondered if a regular pistol charge of smokless under a round ball is as dangerous as warned. In the video up the page they don't get it to blow with a large amount of h110. But a large amount of tight group nukes it. How about 5 or so grains of ffff and 10 grains of dot or something. Anyone with intertube skill want to try it? Back in the day, I filled half of the barrel with powder but no ball. And it was an impressive fire ball and loud. That's mostly all this barrel had going for it. I couldn't hit a twelver box at 50 yards. |
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A long time ago they use to proof barrels with blackpowder by filling them all the way and plugging the end with a ball or lead slug. If the barrel survived undamaged then the barrel was gtg.
Remember blackpowder does not come any where close to the pressures that modern gun powder does. If you go shooting in winter with snow on the ground you can tell if you are using to much powder for your gun by how much un-burned powder is on the snow. |
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Meh. any post past the video is speculating an already answered question. Iraqveteran8888 did it, filmed it, the gun didn't blow up. The end.
Now , y'all can still legitimately speculate on whether the stock might have survived had they not clamped it into a jig that denied it any sort of recoil amelioration, but that's about it. |
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Not really. It's a pipe bomb that looks like a gun. That logic is like a family friend's that thought he could feed his Xmas tree into the fireplace as it burned...really smart guy - computer genius...and servpro customer shortly thereafter. Quoted:
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Sounds possible. If the powder ignites in the rear and the ball is pushed out of the barrel before any real amount of pressure builds up. That would leave the powder to propel just the powder that's in front of it igniting it along the way. I dont know though. I have a rusty old muzzle loader bbl I can test it tomorrow if you want. It's not rusted enough to have an impact on the strength, but the pitting in the bore I doubt it would ever shoot well again. That logic is like a family friend's that thought he could feed his Xmas tree into the fireplace as it burned...really smart guy - computer genius...and servpro customer shortly thereafter. Dude somebody already posted a video of that Iraq Vet 888 or whatever his name is filling the barrel of a muzzle loader with black powder and putting 2 projectiles on top of it. It didnt blow up. My theory for why might not be correct, but I was correct suspecting it might not blow up. |
| I once had a ball get stuck before fully seated on a cva .50 I had when I was a kid. Older crazy Italian buddy and and I removed the clean out screw and slowly filled it from the back. Not sure how much we got in there but my crazy buddy touched it off shoulder fired. Kicked extra hard and a louder than normal boom but no damage. |