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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/28/2006 6:48:06 PM EDT
Living in a blue submarine



In a major break from tradition, the British Royal Navy is painting its submarine fleet, according to Britain’s Sun newspaper.

Officials said the move is being made to better camouflage the ships. Studies had shown blue to be superior to the traditional black. The switch in color comes as more British subs are now patrolling the brighter waters of the Middle East or Indian Ocean, compared to the darker north Atlantic.

“This should make subs twice as hard to spot,” Lt. Cmdr. Steve White told the Sun.

The HMS Torbay is the first ship to get the makeover, and the entire fleet should be painted “steely blue” by the end of the year.

The HMS Torbay (S90) is a Trafalgar-class submarine of the Royal Navy.

“It may not look as macho as dark black, but when sailors [realize] what it does, they’ll love it,” said White.

The Torbay is now on a six-month deployment during which the stealth benefits of its new color will undergo visual tests.

British admirals have even challenged the public to let them know if they’re able to spot the sub.



Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:56:58 PM EDT
This is a shame. Everyone knows that black is a much more tactical colour than blue. Elite extra special forces submarine door gunners around the world are outraged at this news.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:58:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GarethB:
This is a shame. Everyone knows that black is a much more tactical colour than blue. Elite extra special forces submarine door gunners around the world are outraged at this news.




Here! Here! What happened to tradition, dammit?!?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:01:04 PM EDT
How often are these subs actually at a visible depth or surfaced?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:01:09 PM EDT
Why Black Boats Got the Blues

March 27, 2006: The Royal Navy, after extensive research, has concluded that submarines should be painted a shade of deep blue, rather than black, to protect them from detection while surfaced. Subs have been painted black, or some form of camouflage pattern, for over a century. But, as with many other color schemes in the past, close examination usually reveals ways to do it.

Actually, the paint job on a submarine has very little to do with its chances of being spotted. Nuclear subs (Britain only has nuclear subs) are under water nearly all the time they are at work. The only time they surface is, sometimes, when sending commandos ashore, or picking them up. Many subs can do this while still submerged. These command operations usually take place at night, when black paint does the concealment job quite well. What the British camouflage experts discovered was that, during the day, or in overcast weather, black was much less effective at concealing a surfaced sub than was the new shade of dark blue.

Even diesel-electric subs, which spend most of their time on, or near, the surface, don't depend all that much on their paint job. Radar and sonar are more likely, than an eyeball, to detect a surfaced sub. Not only that, most diesel-electric subs have a schnorkel device, which enables the sub to stay beneath the surface, with only the washing machine sized schnorkel be above the water, to get air into the sub, for the crew and its diesel engines.

The new color does provide better concealment in tropical waters, that are "brighter" than the cooler north Atlantic and Arctic waters that have been the scene of most submarine operations over the past century. Currently, subs are more likely to be roaming warmer waters.

If anything, the new British innovations hurts them, more than it helps them. Navies that have lots of diesel-electric boats will now repaint them this more effective color, making it more difficult for the British to detect them.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:02:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By GarethB:
This is a shame. Everyone knows that black is a much more tactical colour than blue. Elite extra special forces submarine door gunners around the world are outraged at this news.




Here! Here! What happened to tradition, dammit?!?



At least it is not shades of pastels like Have Blue.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:06:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Why Black Boats Got the Blues

March 27, 2006: The Royal Navy, after extensive research, has concluded that submarines should be painted a shade of deep blue, rather than black, to protect them from detection while surfaced. Subs have been painted black, or some form of camouflage pattern, for over a century. But, as with many other color schemes in the past, close examination usually reveals ways to do it.

Actually, the paint job on a submarine has very little to do with its chances of being spotted. Nuclear subs (Britain only has nuclear subs) are under water nearly all the time they are at work. The only time they surface is, sometimes, when sending commandos ashore, or picking them up. Many subs can do this while still submerged. These command operations usually take place at night, when black paint does the concealment job quite well. What the British camouflage experts discovered was that, during the day, or in overcast weather, black was much less effective at concealing a surfaced sub than was the new shade of dark blue.

Even diesel-electric subs, which spend most of their time on, or near, the surface, don't depend all that much on their paint job. Radar and sonar are more likely, than an eyeball, to detect a surfaced sub. Not only that, most diesel-electric subs have a schnorkel device, which enables the sub to stay beneath the surface, with only the washing machine sized schnorkel be above the water, to get air into the sub, for the crew and its diesel engines.

The new color does provide better concealment in tropical waters, that are "brighter" than the cooler north Atlantic and Arctic waters that have been the scene of most submarine operations over the past century. Currently, subs are more likely to be roaming warmer waters.

If anything, the new British innovations hurts them, more than it helps them. Navies that have lots of diesel-electric boats will now repaint them this more effective color, making it more difficult for the British to detect them.



Sounds like some fairie is in charge of the UK sub program now. Why would a good Monty Python skit do this story justice?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:09:20 PM EDT
Apparently it's quite easy to see our subs cruising around the clear waters of Hawaii even at depths like 200 ft.

Need to find a photo...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:09:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Why Black Boats Got the Blues

March 27, 2006: The Royal Navy, after extensive research, has concluded that submarines should be painted a shade of deep blue, rather than black, to protect them from detection while surfaced. Subs have been painted black, or some form of camouflage pattern, for over a century. But, as with many other color schemes in the past, close examination usually reveals ways to do it.

Actually, the paint job on a submarine has very little to do with its chances of being spotted. Nuclear subs (Britain only has nuclear subs) are under water nearly all the time they are at work. The only time they surface is, sometimes, when sending commandos ashore, or picking them up. Many subs can do this while still submerged. These command operations usually take place at night, when black paint does the concealment job quite well. What the British camouflage experts discovered was that, during the day, or in overcast weather, black was much less effective at concealing a surfaced sub than was the new shade of dark blue.

Even diesel-electric subs, which spend most of their time on, or near, the surface, don't depend all that much on their paint job. Radar and sonar are more likely, than an eyeball, to detect a surfaced sub. Not only that, most diesel-electric subs have a schnorkel device, which enables the sub to stay beneath the surface, with only the washing machine sized schnorkel be above the water, to get air into the sub, for the crew and its diesel engines.

The new color does provide better concealment in tropical waters, that are "brighter" than the cooler north Atlantic and Arctic waters that have been the scene of most submarine operations over the past century. Currently, subs are more likely to be roaming warmer waters.

If anything, the new British innovations hurts them, more than it helps them. Navies that have lots of diesel-electric boats will now repaint them this more effective color, making it more difficult for the British to detect them.



You'd think whoever wrote that article would check for consistancy. First they say that the colour won't do much to make the sub easier to see, then they say it will. Which is it?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:45:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Why Black Boats Got the Blues

March 27, 2006:....
Radar and sonar are more likely, than an eyeball, to detect a surfaced sub.




I beg to differ

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:41:18 AM EDT
MARPAT for subs? NAVPAT?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:47:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Why Black Boats Got the Blues

March 27, 2006:....
Radar and sonar are more likely, than an eyeball, to detect a surfaced sub.




I beg to differ




Depends how surfaced the sub is. Scope only - eyes have it for sure.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:47:50 AM EDT
its not the boat you spot, its the wake.... can't paint that.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:11:44 PM EDT
Nothing from ANdy?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:18:01 PM EDT
Blue MARPAT?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:26:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stipilot:
MARPAT for subs? NAVPAT?



Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:27:35 PM EDT
In the Med the water is very clear . . . all the way to the bottom. A big black outline is far easier to detect in this circumstance that is a better-blended blue. IMHO
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