[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bought with a bill of sale only, obtained valid title via Vermont process. (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/4/2022 3:02:01 PM EDT
|
A month or so ago I was considering the purchase of a motorcycle, but it didn't have a title. Asking here in this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/hometown/Titling-a-20-year-old-dirt-bike-that-has-no-title-and-bill-of-sale-only-/32-662294/ I learned of options such as bonded titles, judicial orders, etc. Also mentioned was the Vermont title process, which piqued my interest: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Vermont-title-process-for-motorcycle-/5-2561015/ I decided to give this route a shot as it was inexpensive, quick, and if it worked I'd have immediate titles for the bike, vs a bonded title with it's 3 year "you can drive it, but can't sell it" stipulations. I did some googling on this process, and found several sites and videos. This was a good step-by-step video on the paperwork process:  Failed To Load Title This site gave a good overview: https://cartitles.com/how-to-use-the-vermont-title-loophole-to-get-a-vehicle-title/ as did this one: http://www.chinonthetank.com/2014/04/get-a-title-with-a-vermont-registration/ Armed with that information I decided to start the process. In order to facilitate "greasing the wheels", I decided to use all VT native paperwork. The idea being that paperwork they are familiar with will process quickest. I put together a packet which I sent to VT (via certified mail). The packet consisted of: 1) completed VT VD-119 form. The video linked above goes over correctly filling out this form. https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119-Vehicle_Registration_Tax_Title.pdf 2) VT Bill of sale / odometer disclosure form VT-005 https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-005-Bill_of_Sale_ODS.pdf 3) VT VT-010 VIN verification form https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-010-VIN_HIN_Verification.pdf Vermont requires a VIN verification by law enforcement as part of this process. This is to ensure the vehicle isn't listed in NCIC as stolen. Applicant fills out the top half, LEO who performs the inspection / VIN check through NCIC and completes the bottom. If you're having this done outside of Vermont (as I was) you'll need to get a brief letter (on dept letterhead) by the LEO completing the inspection. I had mine done by a deputy at my Sheriff's office. His letter (on department letterhead) essentially consisted of "2003 kawasaki motorcycle VIN # [VIN number here] was processed through the NCIC and MULES databases and does not return as a stolen vehicle". He signed the bottom, and I attached one of his business cards to his letter. 4) printout of NADA value of the bike. VT collects 6% tax on either the purchase price or the NADA value, whichever is higher. So I printed out the NADA sheet for the bike. https://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles/Motorcycles 5) I took photos of the VIN number on the headstock of the bike. I printed out a couple of photos and included them in the packet to VT. 6) a personal check for the amount of VT motorcycle registration ($48) + 6% tax on sales price or NADA value (whichever is higher) made out to Vermont DMV. I had a few concerns as this appeared a little too straightforward. MO is a bit naziish when it comes to titles. The DOR (Dept of Revenue, our version of DMV) said my only two options were 1) have the prior titled owner request a copy of the title for me, or 2) go before a judge and petition for ownership. So the VT method was very appealing, if it worked. I kept an eye on my bank account to see if the personal checks (I sent 2 packets for 2 bikes) cleared. In about a week and a half they cleared. Roughly a week later I received 2 manila envelopes from VT. Each contained my "temporary" VT registration (essentially a marked-up copy of the VD-119 form I'd sent in), as well as a VT license plate for the bike. Attached File Attached File Based on my reading, I knew the actual/permanent registration forms (which I would need for my DOR office in MO) would take about another week. Sure enough, a week or so later I received a pair of those "tear the edges off and open them up" style letters/envelopes. Attached File Attached File This was the paperwork I needed for the DOR. In addition, MO requires an ID/OD (ID = VIN, OD = mileage) inspection for any out of state transfers. I went to my local inspection station / mechanic and got the ID/OD on the bikes. I guess mine were ID only, as they are dirt bikes without odometers. He just wrote "no odometer" on the inspection paperwork. In MO vehicles 10+ years old are exempt from odometer requirements anyway, so it was a non-issue. I took my VT paperwork and the ID/OD inspection from the mechanic to a nearby DOR office. When called I explained I needed to transfer my VT registered vehicles to MO. As expected, there was a bit of a discussion when she asked for my title work, and all I presented was the VT registration paperwork. She made a phone call to an authority of some sort, and they verified the registration paperwork was all I needed to title them in MO. She then started asking about tax information. This was the first time I'd been unprepared / caught off guard in the whole process. I had no idea what she was referring to. Eventually I realized she was wanting sales date and amount for the bikes, to see if I owed taxes on them. I presented her with the VT "temporary registration" paperwork, which if you'll remember is just a marked up and stamped copy of the VD-119 paperwork I had sent VT. Listed on these were the tax amount and registration amount I had paid VT to register the bikes. The lady at the MO DOR entered this information, and it showed on my title application receipt as "taxes paid out of state". I owed no MO tax on the transfer. When she was done with both bikes I paid for the processing and took my title receipts with me. Attached File About a week later an envelope showed up containing MO titles for both bikes. I noticed under the "prior state" area of the title, both said "VT". That's it. That's how you can use a bill of sale to get a title for a vehicle using the VT registration process. |
|
Exceeded the number of photos I could add to the original post. Attached File |
|
Quoted: My son did the exact same thing earlier this year with an old Honda XL 250s I was impressed. One of my superiors at work is going to have me walk him through it to obtain titles for 55 and 53 Chevy trucks he has. We may even try it with an old John boat my dad has, to see if we can get on that way. |
|
Quoted: I'm kind of in the same situation, but I'm in Oregon and the bike was last titled in California. The owner moved to Arizona but died in Nevada. If it doesn't show up in NCIC as stolen, you should be golden. I'm curious to see what happens when I try it on a vehicle that WAS titled in my state (MO) at some point. |
|
Quoted: Nice. I have an old car I need a title for and was wondering about this method as well. |
|
Quoted: Interesting....so no additional hoops to make the dirt bikes "street legal"? Along those lines, I'm not sure if a street legal MO bike can be denied entry into CA. 20 years ago I dual sported my DRZ E model (dirt only) in MO and took it to CA with me. I didn't have an issue, and when I moved back to MO I sold it at a premium in CA. I think CA may have put restrictions in place since then, based on VIN #. |
|
So, this works for folks in other states? Damn it! I need this earlier this week. I just passed on this one because the broad at the local Title Bureau made it sound like an impossibility. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5427152164013028/ Somebody got a deal. |
|
Quoted: I have a canoe and a john boat. No titles. I was going to do this, just haven't. John boat might be iffy  Not all states title small boats or motors under a certain HP. (Oregon, hint, hint) You can use that in your home state to gain title as long as there is not a previous title on record for that motor. Your state may allow it with just a bill of sale. As for Vermont, lots of military vehicle collectors go thru them to title vehicles. My M37 was done that way. The Steel Soldiers forum can guide you. |
|
Quoted: So, this works for folks in other states? Damn it! I need this earlier this week. I just passed on this one because the broad at the local Title Bureau made it sound like an impossibility. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5427152164013028/ Somebody got a deal. |
| Tagged as highly relevant to my interests. I recently tracked down the dune buggy my grandfather built and was sold from his estate and bought it back. It was last titled to him, but the dude that bought it from the estate lost the title and never transferred it. I was weighing the judge option, but my do this instead. |
|
Quoted: So, this works for folks in other states? Damn it! I need this earlier this week. I just passed on this one because the broad at the local Title Bureau made it sound like an impossibility. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5427152164013028/ Somebody got a deal. MO DOR came across the same way. That's why I started exploring options. The options I found included going before a judge to get the court to grant ownership, bonded title, Oklahoma Title 42 process (mechanic's lien), South Dakota titling (appears similar to VT, but I didn't dig deep enough to determine), and the VT route. The VT route seemed the easiest to me, with little/no risk (they return your check if they can't process). So I decided to start there. |
|
Quoted: If the bike is older than 81 there is a guy in TN that will do the whole thing for $200 and you get a TN title that will transfer to you. VT charges $48 to register a motorcycle, and 6% tax on value. So "Title Bros" is charging $100 to do the paperwork for me. No thanks. I like learning, and I like saving money. VT process only applies to vehicles 15 years old or older (or in the case of motorcycles, 15 years old or under 300cc). So 2007 or older as of right now. |
|
Very cool. I past on a few keeps b/c of the no title problem. what was the totals added cost? this one is titled Attached File |
|
Quoted: Why? It's likely a cash cow with no liability for them. Dude. We talked about this, so I'll phrase it another way. If you had a machine gun that was unregistered, but your state said, meh, we don't care about that, would it be a good idea for you to post about it on arfcom? No. The states on the OTHER side of this deal have incentives to not accept these titles. States don't care about people OR titles but they're pushed by the Feds to meet NATIONAL title standards, and just like eighty percent receivers, if you tell everybody about it, soon enough the word gets out and feds decide that particular 'interstate commerce' needs to be stopped, and bye bye happy fun times. If you got a good thing, stfu about it. If it was me, I'd delete this thread. |
|
Quoted: Dude. We talked about this, so I'll phrase it another way. If you had a machine gun that was unregistered, but your state said, meh, we don't care about that, would it still be a good idea for you to post about it on arfcom? No. The states on the OTHER side of this deal have incentives to not accept these titles. States don't care about people OR titles but they're pushed by the Feds to meet NATIONAL title standards, and just like eighty percent receivers, if you tell everybody about it, soon enough the word gets out and feds decide that particular 'interstate commerce' needs to be stopped, and bye bye happy fun times. If you got a good thing, stfu about it. I'll just delete it and post it in Team instead...that way you can't see it! 
|
I lost the title for this ‘47 Willys Wagon I sold a couple of months ago and used the Vermont process. I received some cool antique car plates. Here’s the guy leaving with it and as you can see, I kept the plates.  Attached File |
|
Quoted: This process does not work in all states. Ask me how I know.  I'm curious what keeps this from working. These are the legal ownership documents provided by VT. This IS how they show ownership of the vehicle. There is documentation stating / showing the ownership documents provided by each state, and I was under the impression that other states had to honor these official ownership documents. Not saying they won't be dickheads at the counter, but not sure how they can state "we refuse to honor VT official ownership documentation". |
|
Quoted: I'll just delete it and post it in Team instead...that way you can't see it! Quoted: Quoted: Dude. We talked about this, so I'll phrase it another way. If you had a machine gun that was unregistered, but your state said, meh, we don't care about that, would it still be a good idea for you to post about it on arfcom? No. The states on the OTHER side of this deal have incentives to not accept these titles. States don't care about people OR titles but they're pushed by the Feds to meet NATIONAL title standards, and just like eighty percent receivers, if you tell everybody about it, soon enough the word gets out and feds decide that particular 'interstate commerce' needs to be stopped, and bye bye happy fun times. If you got a good thing, stfu about it. I'll just delete it and post it in Team instead...that way you can't see it! LOFL! |
|
Had a minor snag when I purchased a Honda 650L. Guy sold it to me in Ohio but he had a Michigan title and never transfered it to himself in Ohio. He claimed dual residency. I had to get an out of state vehicle inspection (take the bike on trailer to an inspection location) then take that to the title office. They also questioned me about tax paid and I said it was paid in Michigan. About a full day dicking around. |
|
Quoted: How do you go about getting the VIN verified? I have a 1933 International B3 truck I need to get a title for, but isn't anywhere near roadworthy to drive somewhere for VIN verification. Around here, the local cops will come to you. That's in the towns with actual police departments. No idea how it works for the towns that are only covered by the state police. |
|
I have a 4 wheeler that the frame has been sandblasted and powder coated multiple times. In the process it has pretty much obliterated the VIN. I do not have a title. Is there a work around for this? I'd like to register it with the rest of my off road vehicles. |
