I'm not sure how the southern members of AR15 feel about this.  I'd like to know....

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I think that these towers are a joke.  Are we supposed to make it easy for illegal immigrants to enter the US?  Why don't they just pave a highway with call boxes and gatorade stands.  I would suggest an alternate use for the towers.
-------------------------------------
Border Patrol Envisions Desert Towers
by ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) -- The Border Patrol is considering installing towers in the remote Arizona desert where migrants in distress could signal for help.

Each of the half-dozen 30-foot towers would have a button that migrants crossing from Mexico could press if they needed to be rescued. The button would send a signal to the Border Patrol, which would dispatch rescuers.

The idea is ''only a proposal under consideration, a long way from becoming reality,'' Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, said Thursday. But many environmentalists and human rights activists are already attacking the proposal.

''The information we got from inside sources was that they are trying to fast-track these towers,'' said Daniel Patterson, desert ecologist for the Center for Biological Diversity. ''We certainly don't think they have gone through the required analysis.''

Critics contend that the towers would enable the Border Patrol to increase surveillance of migrants in the desert. They also say building the towers could further imperil the highly endangered Sonoran pronghorn sheep living in the area.

''The Border Patrol is trying to take advantage of the emotional situation to try to put more infrastructure in there to try to further militarize the border,'' Patterson said.

Fourteen illegal immigrants died last month trying to cross the desert in 115-degree heat, and federal officials have been working in cooperation with Mexican authorities to try to prevent such deaths in the future.

Kice denied critics' claims about the motivation behind the proposed towers.

''Our mandate is to protect the border, but we have a moral obligation to try to save lives as well,'' Kice said. ''We're talking about a land area the size of Delaware. It's a very, very daunting challenge.''

I clicked on this link thinking they were SNIPER towers. [b]NOW THERE'S AN IDEA!!!

So did I!  Thought that would be a tad rash, but useful at the same time.  If you wanna immigrate, go through the proper channels - otherwise its slow invasion...

"Oh no, not the [b]briar patch[/b]!!!"

Folks, this will be used for bait.  What easier way to catch mojados than to set up an "assistance" tower that will go to if they get hot/thirsty/tired?

"to try to further militarize the border"

Now, there's really an idea long overdue.  Although buzzard bait conversion zones seem to be performing well.

Disclaimer:  This is a personal opion all thoughts and ideas are mind and mind alone.

We need to authorize the Boarder patrole to use deadly force.  Or send some of the military out there.  I think it might stop if we get our gaurd towers up with rip guns in them.  Also have some tanks and hummves driving around.

When they come into this country they steal our jobs and vote DEMOCRATIC!!!!  I can understand that they had a hard time in there former country but that gives them no right to enter into ours and steal our jobs and live of our tax dollars.  I have no problem helping people out.  But what really disgusts meis people standing in a line collection wellfare and not even trying to work or anything.
[sniper]

Ok maybe most people don't know what the border patrol does. The reason why they are doing this because they wan to help these people. This is what happens and it mostly happens to woman and children, The Coyote takes there money it can be $500 to $5,000 per head drives the people up and drops them off in the middle of nowhere and tells them that there is a town only 5 miles from here.When the nearest town is about 20 or 30 miles from where they are.


What happens is the people Die woman, men and children. I know a lot of you out there say so what if they die, they are not from are country anyway. Well I feel the same way to a degree. These people are not the drug dealers there just people wanting a better way of life and we all have to respect that because we all would do it for are family I'm I wrong.

The Border patrol is just trying to make sure these people don't die and so they can take them back to there country. Can we blame them for that I don't know about you but just think about walking thought the desert and finding a dead baby with its mother and 2 year old brother now that would get to me. I don't know about you.

1. The Border Patrol is already authorized to use deadly force.

2. The military has no business operating in any sort of capacity related to border patrol within the US. If you want to invade Mexico, feel free to send in the Marines. But if we're talking about New Mexico, they don't belong there.

3. Illegal immigrants almost without exception do not vote. The few that get away with it don't make a difference.

And Rifles4Me: is your job washing dishes for $2 an hour? I have yet to meet an illegal alien who knows much about TCP/IP, so personally I'd have to say they're not taking my job anytime soon.

All this talk about walls, deadly force, ad nauseum is missing the point completely.  If you want to curb illegal immigration you have to curb the temptation.  Right now the INS does almost NO interior enforcement.  If a business is suspected of employing illegal immigrants and the INS wants to check them out, they are required by statute to give the employer 72 hours notice that they want to perform an inspection.  I think the fallacy of that as an effective deterrent is obvious.  What employer in their right mind is going to have their illegal work force show up that day?  Congress is the problem.  They refuse to do anything about it because of the political pressure applied by businesses to commit malfeasance (it's nothing less than that), and not enforce immigration law in the interior.  Gone are the days of "Born in East L.A." where INS raids a business.  The politicians only want to curb illegal immigration from occurring in populated areas where everyone can see it happening.  They push it outside of town where no one can see it.  This is good in one sense because it deters the criminal element in border towns, but it hardly cuts down on the number of illegal immigrants who enter the United States.

The other thing I find amusing is the notion that more aliens are dying because of the recent border strategy, i.e. Gatekeeper et al.  While it's true that more aliens are perishing due to extreme weather conditions, the number being killed by border bandits and being hit by cars running the port have dropped to virtually nil.  What the media isn't reporting is that the number of aliens being killed these days is the about the same as it was before the current border enforcement strategies were implemented.
They're just dying by different means.

MG

Mean green are you border patrol? Just want to know because your mean green name is what the border patrol calls them self's.

I run into the Border Patrol almost everytime I go to Ft. Huachuca. They are always courteous and professional. And I am always courteous to them. AFTER ALL THE ARE ARMED.....

Man I would feel well armed to with a M4 or a nice 12 ga shot gun as my primary weapon. But there pistols have to go the 12 rd 40 S&W Beretta's. Maybe if your lucky you can get the SIG with 12 rd also.

About the only thing that should be in those towers are sharpshooter with .300 Win Mags.


Six

Here's one that will really piss you off.  My cousin that works in the Disabiltiy office in Tallahassee told me about the "Aged Alien" clause that Social Security allows.  Basically, you can come into the country illegally, go straight to the Social Security office, and if you're over a certain age (I think 60 or something like that), you can start getting a monthly check. They never pay a dime into the system, but they can get a check quicker than you or I will ever hope to.  Gotta love those tax dollars at work.

Ouch, that HURTS!

Fine, tayous1, then we should go after the coyotes. If only we cound launch undercover ops into\with mexico - but then again Fox is such a bleeding heart he distributes border-crossing kits - so cooperation from him is unlikely.

And there's something really wrong with the manner in which most illegal immigrant women gain legit entry: birth a kid here(who is then a citizen), and since she's the mother we could hardly kick her our and keep the kid, now could we? so she's allowed to stay. F**ked up.

It is only going to be a matter of time before the coyotes catch on and use those towers to divert INS resources to the location farthest away from where they will be crossing.

You guys are the problem. There is a stupid underlying hatred of immigrants. I say open the borders and they'll cross safely at checkpoints and the coyotes will be out of buisness. But, at the same time we must close the Social Security and Welfare Loopholes. Hell, just end 'em all together.

As for Border Patrol being friendly and Professional. You weren't in Miami on April 24, 2000. This was when a group of heavily armed Border Patrol Wakjobs burst into Elian's home and took him at gunpoint. Basically, the Border Patrol and INS are racist Trash. I'm glad the Mexicans are offering $50K for the head of any border patrol agent that murders a Mexican. This happens way too often. As for deadly force. They already use it way too much. I say take away their guns or just give 'em a service pistol and see how gung ho they get.

As far as Texas, California, and Arizona I doubt the immigrants make a difference in the vote, not to mention it is illegal for them to do so. Texas still went overwhelmenly to Bush, just like with most other Republicans. Gore won PRK by 1.5 Million votes. The margin left no question that the illegals had no effect. Arizona still went Republican. Get rid of Welfare and they'll vote their conciense.

Here in Florida, the Cubans all vote Republican. They really hate Klinton and Reno.

As far as my job. as stated above, until they learn RIP, TCP/IP, IPX, NetWare, Windows 2000, I have nothing to worry about. Hell, I wouldn't work at their jobs if I was penniless. It would be too embarrassing. I definitely wouldn't mention it if I lost my job to a Mexican.

As far as snipers. Forget It. That is murder, plain and simple. These people only want a better life. I hear the Buchanan supporters out there and their Nazi friends saying well lets just kill 'em all. What next, why not place land mine fields on the border.


As for any questions about myself. One side of my father's family came to Virginia in the mid-1600's. The other side have been here since the last ice age. Native American. My mother's family has lived in Florida since the 15/1600's. This was long before Florida was even part of the U.S. 1824 I believe. My family has been in America since before there was an America. I know some people would speculate if I didn't put this. We all speak both English and Spanish. The Spanish language has been passed down my mother's family since FL was a Spanish colony. This has definitely helped here in Florida.

Look up mecha, reconquista, and aztlan. See who is doing the hating.

Try this link. They are strong on our borders.
           www.thepaulreveresociety.com

I don't care what the illegals' reasons for coming here are, they're still breaking OUR laws by doing so and therefore need to be stopped in whatever way works best. If that way is mining the border and erecting INS-manned MG towers, so be it. Yes, it's too bad that Mexico is such a shithole and full of corrupt officials who live large at the expense of the people - that's just not fair. But you know what? Life's not fair, so get used to it. I don't think it's particularly fair that you're pretty much guaranteed to starve to death before reaching puberty if you happen to be born in a place called Ethiopia, but my solution to that problem isn't to make it easier for Ethiopians to emigrate to the USA at taxpayer expense. And before anyone asks, I'd be trying to do the same damn thing if I was in their shoes - the difference is I wouldn't expect the gov't of the country I was trying to illegally enter to help me do just that, and then give me money as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I give 2 shits and a fart as to whether illegals are dying in our desert while unlawfully entering our country.

Hey cc48510, congratulations on setting a new standard for idiotic statements on this board.  But hey, if it comes naturally let it flow.....

Open borders?  If you want the southern U.S. cities to look like their shithole counterparts on the Mexican side then by all means open them.  Why do you think we don't have open borders?  It's because we don't want our cities to look like third world, sewage ridden, poverty stricken dumps that are currently on the Mexican side.

As for your supposition that Border Patrol are racist trash, I guess that includes the numerous Hispanic agents in the organization too. In fact Hispanics make up over 1/3 of the BP ranks.  The Bortach units you are referring to, that grabbed Elian, were under orders from the AG herself.  You should direct your anger over the Elian debacle at her.  They were sent to enforce immigration law.  If you don't agree with it, then look to Congress and the AG.  I agree that it was an excessive use of force, but after the AG's decision making in Waco you shouldn't be surprised by her tactics.

As for using deadly force......let me give you a pistol, then have someone start hurling baseball sized rocks at you from 10 yards away and we'll see if you think deadly force isn't justified.  Or better yet let me give you the same pistol and set you out a few yards while I attempt to run you over with my car.  You have no idea what you're talking about so let's just stop playing the moronic Monday morning QB from your safe haven where the worst that happens to you is deciding on which video to rent for the night.

While I'm on a roll let me correct another IDIOTIC mis-statement of yours.  No one is offering $50k for a BP who murders a Mexican.  The Arellano-Felix drug cartel is offering a $250K bounty for the murder of any BP agent.  They are upset by the loss of revenue due to drug seizures by BPA's, not the non-existent murders of Mexican citizens you are referring too.  Get your facts straight, before posting that kind of crap!

Also, FYI most BPA's only carry their sidearm.  Only under rare circumstances do they take a shotgun or M4 with them.  Most rank and file BPA's are patriotic Americans who believe in stemming the tidal wave of illegal immigration that is plaguing this great nation.  They are also among the most ardent supporters of the Second Amendment of any law enforcement agency out there.

I consider your statement in support of Border Patrol Agents being killed by Mexicans to be treason.  Do us all a favor and move to Mexico.  If you want open borders than you won't mind sampling the standard of living there before importing it over here.

MG

Mean Green where you out of?????

LRT/COT here

Bazzy

You're in Tejas eh?  I'm out of SDC/BRF.

MG

Hey the Marines took Mexico City once.  We can do it again.  I don't think we should kill the illegals but I think we do need harsher punishments. IMO

Semper Fi

Smalls

I wasn't saying that they should kill any BP agent. I was saying that if a BP agent kills an "illegal", I am not opposed to them getting revenge. That Arellano-Felix stuff, may be partially true, but BP agents have murdered Mexicans and that is a fact. I believe that the only use for the BP is stopping drugs. They shouldn't be stopping imigrants. You are all Xenophobes. I also stated that we should end welfare and SS. This would cure the problem. Why shouldn't we help them, or as some suggest why kill a person for seeking a better life. Soon enough, many americans will be looking for a new home, once some Democrat makes america unlivable. But, I'll stay and fight. We shouldn't be giving them money or helping them cross, but if they do, we shouldn't just disregard them and their lives. If we opened the borders, the only people crossing outside of the checkpoints would be Drug Dealers and I have no problem blowing their asses away. Open the borders. Check the Mexicans at the border. DO not give them taxpayer dollars. Let them work for $2/hr. Hell its cheap labor.

The problem is the liberal method:

1) Stop those who are crossing
2) Give those who get in Welfare ans SS.
3) Don't let "illegals" get a legitimate job.

It is actually illegal for them to work. It is illegal to give them a job. That is the problem. If you take away the free money, open the borders, and let them work. We will get a better bunch of people. And who said the border region isn't already a 3rd world shithole. It is a liberal have. Hell, they are told not to work, and given money for doing nothing. This is the problem not the "illegals".

The worst is when you say that they are called illegals so they are. The ATF calls many weapons illegal, but they aren't. Quit the double talk. We need to stop calling them illegal. Krome Detention Center down in Miami is worse than the prisons that we send murderers to. As for the BP in Texas, who knows. But, the ones here are garbage. They wrongly associate decent immigrants with drug running. The Cubans don't run drugs. Few Mexicans outside the Arellano-Felix and Tijuana Crime Families actually run drugs. They are unfairly stigmatized, just like gunowners being called Right-Wing Militant Nutcases.

There's a difference between an irrational fear and expecting people to respect and obey our laws.  You're making it sound like anyone who disagrees with you is some kind of psycho basket case - is this your intention???



Reality check.  Hey, when you're King, go ahead.
You'll be so busy putting down rebellion from the current recipients, there won't be much time for winning our hearts and minds over to your 'no borders' approach.

However, in the real world, doing away with SS & welfare is just not going to happen, especially when so many have paid in to SS and are expecting something back. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of aging baby-boomers in the political landscape.



OK, you sound compassionate enough.  Without using any tax funds, what is your idea of helping them???  


So maybe not many will take the job of some copmuter expert.  But there are a lot of retirees, young people, and some trying to get off welfare who are hoping to earn minimum wage.  Why should they have to compete with someone who is here illegally will accept an illegal wage?



To me, calling them "undocumented" is the doubletalk.  And it doesn't change their legal status.

dont mind imb he is a conservative masquerading as libertarian

hey imb

you lost sardukar

you are about to lose imbroglio

you need to come on, if even for a second, to prevent expiration

you people are weird

you say immigration is bad but it is not that. it is just social programs are bad but you do not care about that you yell about immigration anyway i dunno why

ya that is like saying guns are bad it is not that. it is just criminal use that is bad but the "liberals" you complain about do not care about that and they yell about guns anyway i dunno why

ya it is the same thing you see you are attacking the wrong problem

ya well anyway imb they are worried about you so they are going to send you mail ok do you still use that box

ya man all you people should respect and abide by this countrys laws

ya man the masses have voted that guns are bad and soon nobody will be allowed to have anything at all

ya look at you people you say you should be allowed to have hicaps and these assault weapons and your .50 bmgs and all this stuffs

ya what is your problem the majority is voting to take all this stuff away

obviously you do not respect this country or its laws and some of you always talking about tshtf obviously do not intend to follow these laws in the future

you should not live here if you do not respect and obey these laws

you may not like these people who get elected and the laws they passed but it is legal and this is how our system operates so you better get out of here if you do not like it

ya you black rifle owners are minority you are just taking moneyz and jobs away from the majority of the good folk in this country like the democrats and the soccer moms and all that what did they do wrong they live here but no you minority evil black rifle people want it different and vote different you should not be allowed.

ok imb dove came in apparently that lavaca guy is f'ing up y2k and the channel is going to the shits

dove came in asking for your help cause maybe you are smart enough to take care of the problem

he is taking over nicks or some crap like that

well anyway she said she is worried about you and maybe she can lure you back with new pics (ya that is what she said)

your help is required in y2k and guns if you do not come back i dunno what is going to happen

i dunno what you are doing hanging around these people so much

they do not even deserve ars and probably own rugers and stuff

ok, update

a whole bunch of y2k people got klined, even catmom.  she is like 60 years old man...

you have to come back and help.

ok gwen, dove, all the y2k people are coming in asking for your help.

they are saying you got klined too, like everyone else

is this true?  if it is not true you better come back and fix things pronto, it's all going down the tubes.

Content: all you anti-immigration people still suck