Posted: 8/5/2009 1:02:16 PM EDT
| this may be a dumb question, but why do outboard boat engines cost so dang much? BTW im bout to buy a 20' 1990 Bayliner Capri that is in excellent shape for $1500 with a 150 johnson. does this sound like a deal? thanks for any help |
| I always wondered why they are so expensive also. I guess because its a high performance engine with a drive train. I love it when someone tells me they bought a used boat without a motor. I ask them if they know how much motors are and they have no idea. Quite a shock when they find out how much they cost! |
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DEMAND A TEST RIDE!!!!! Old boats have a way hiding MAJOR defects very very well. A messed up transom for example can cost more than you`re paying to repair and you still have a really old boat when you are finished with the repair.
I am big into boating and would by far , at this time, suggest going the repo route. Check your local banks and ask if they have any boats they have taken back. Where are you and I`ll help if I can. |
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If it runs like the dickens, then it's a fair deal.
Just beware that Bayliner is considered bottom of the barrel among boat manufacturers, but it's a boat. Since outboards went all fuel injected and even four stroke, they've gotten even more expensive. When you see something with twin 250s on it nowadays, that's probably over $50K in motor just right there. |
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Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. If you are asking why motors cost so much and if the boat is a deal, how exactly do you know enough to know that the boat is in excellent shape? Is the steering done by cable or hydrolic? If it has a cable steering system when was it replaced last? When was the floor replaced last? Unless the boat was stored indoors for the last 20 years the floor is probably rotten. How is the transom and stringers? Are they still solid or have they deteriorated? A 150hp Johnson would cost about $1,500 to buy. Why are you getting the boat and trailer free? Something isn't right with the price, even for a bayliner. Does the motor run? Does it start up right away? How often has the lower unit oil been changed? How does the prop look? When was the last time the water pump impeller was replaced. Ask for a test drive on the lake. If the seller hesitates for even a second just walk away. |
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Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. Bullshit. They are lower end boats. No question there. But they are well made and will last for many many years with basic maintenance. Boat snobbery is impressive. Worse than gun snobs. |
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Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. Bullshit. They are lower end boats. No question there. But they are well made and will last for many many years with basic maintenance. Boat snobbery is impressive. Worse than gun snobs. Both our boats have been Four Winns, which is supposed to be a better boat? I've seen plenty of Bayliners older than that '90 running like striped apes. If it was taken care of, it's probably OK. |
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Check the transom for rot, and the floor for soft spots. If it has any, you will be looking at a major job of tearing out the floor, removing the foam flotation that weighs a ton because it has turned into a giant sponge, replacing the stringers and glassing in a new floor.
If the transom has any rot, and it is ignored, you can be tooling down the lake and all of a sudden there will be a big hole where the engine used to be, and the boat will sink faster that you can say WTF !!!???. Any boat at that price is a good deal, but that is the cheapest part of boat ownership. Dont ask me how I know this. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. Bullshit. They are lower end boats. No question there. But they are well made and will last for many many years with basic maintenance. Boat snobbery is impressive. Worse than gun snobs. LOL, you just confirmed the point I was making so it isn't bullshit. Do all boats need maintenance? Yes. Do all boats wear out over time? Yes. Does all wood rot or dry rot over time? Yes. Does a lower end boat use lower grade material to keep the cost lower? Yes. That means they are made cheap and will wear out quicker. Made cheap doesn't necessarily mean slapped together with poor workmanship. Think of it this way are Hesse and Colt the same? Hell no. The finished products might look and feel like quality but one will wear out and have problems much sooner than the other because it is cheaply made. |
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Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. Bullshit. They are lower end boats. No question there. But they are well made and will last for many many years with basic maintenance. Boat snobbery is impressive. Worse than gun snobs. LOL, you just confirmed the point I was making so it isn't bullshit. Do all boats need maintenance? Yes. Do all boats wear out over time? Yes. Does all wood rot or dry rot over time? Yes. Does a lower end boat use lower grade material to keep the cost lower? Yes. That means they are made cheap and will wear out quicker. Made cheap doesn't necessarily mean slapped together with poor workmanship. Think of it this way are Hesse and Colt the same? Hell no. The finished products might look and feel like quality but one will wear out and have problems much sooner than the other because it is cheaply made. I made none of your points because you had none to begin with. I've got a 20 year old bayliner that has gotten tune ups and oil changes regularly. It's maintained and stored properly. Still in show room condition and we run the piss out of it every summer. But don't mind me. I try to get value for my money. You buy what you want. |
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I am no fan of Bayliners, especially the Capri. This is about as "bottom of the barrel" as they get. Not a big deal - good motor.... make sure you check for stress cracks that look severe, and floor/joist rot. Price sounds good tho.... provided you dont need to put another $1500 into it to get it reliable. |
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That is a decent price......if you test drive it.........don't be bashful about it either.....
Run it for a while and then see how it idles.......stop it, start it, etc.......run it full open throttle......then see how it idles.....stop it, start it etc.....put it thru the ringer..... |
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On a new motor, figure over $100 a HP easily. Add about $500 onto that for a small 5 HP motor. Test drive [not 3 minutes and it's not sinking either] or walk. Yep, I am sitting here looking at a new 2.5 HP Suzuki 4 stroke that came in today. Price was $750 For $1500, it sounds like you are getting a hell of a deal |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bayliners are known as cheap boats, meaning they are made cheap and wear out quickly. Bullshit. They are lower end boats. No question there. But they are well made and will last for many many years with basic maintenance. Boat snobbery is impressive. Worse than gun snobs. LOL, you just confirmed the point I was making so it isn't bullshit. Do all boats need maintenance? Yes. Do all boats wear out over time? Yes. Does all wood rot or dry rot over time? Yes. Does a lower end boat use lower grade material to keep the cost lower? Yes. That means they are made cheap and will wear out quicker. Made cheap doesn't necessarily mean slapped together with poor workmanship. Think of it this way are Hesse and Colt the same? Hell no. The finished products might look and feel like quality but one will wear out and have problems much sooner than the other because it is cheaply made. I made none of your points because you had none to begin with. I've got a 20 year old bayliner that has gotten tune ups and oil changes regularly. It's maintained and stored properly. Still in show room condition and we run the piss out of it every summer. But don't mind me. I try to get value for my money. You buy what you want. I have bought what I wanted. Used boats that aren't any of the name brands. There is a reason that used Bayliners are some of the lowest priced boats out there...and it isn't because they are all in show room condition after 20 years. You are a smart boat owner, you take care of your boat, store it properly, and do maintence. How many other people on the lake do think do that? How much you want to bet that someone who keeps their Hesse AR15 cleaned, maintained, and stored in dry climate controlled storage will have a better weapon after 20 years compared to someone who chucks their Colt in the damp basement and does not take care of it. The same goes for boats. Drive up and down any major road and you will see boats sitting outside and uncovered. Most people don't have extra 30 feet of garage space to store a boat so the boat sits outside. Exposed to the elements and not maintained, which I would say covers the majority of the boats out there, any boat will deteriorate and Bayliners are known to deteriorate faster than others. I never told the OP not to buy a Bayliner, I was just giving him things to think about when looking at a 20 year old boat since he was asking questions about buying it. |
| Also check out the gas tank and the fuel lines E10 has been trashing old boats over the last few years. It would probably cost more to get a survey done than the boats worth but it wouldn't hurt to have a mechanic check out the engine before you buy. On the trailer look at the condition of the bunks, welds and bearings. Good luck. |
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I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits?
Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) |
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Quoted: I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits? Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) You obviously havent owned many boats. Granted - a good quality outboard, well maintained, is going to be cheaper to own.... but the proper annual maintenance alone is more than most are prepared for... ESPECIALLY on I/O and inboards. Lower unit fluid changes, oil and filter change, winterizing fogging, prop replacements due to damage, fiberglass uh-ohs, impeller changes every 50 hours of run-time, engine damage cause by lack of impeller changes, water in lower unit requiring lower unit rebuild/replace, damage to boats caused by leaking bellows, bellows replacement, gimbal bearing re-grease, gimbal breaking replacement, trim position sensor replacement, shift cable adjustment, shift cable replacement, throttle cable lubrication and/or replacement, starter failure, alternator failure, battery replacement, carpet replacement, vinyl reupholstry, annual gel-coat oxidation removal and wax, depth finder replacement, steering cable replacement, speedometer replacement, upper cylinder compression loss due to bad cooling design, frozen block due to failure to fully drain water from block, skeg replacement, damage to boat from striking submerged stump, trailer bearing replacement, trailer bearing repacks, trailer brakes failed, trailer running board replacement, trailer tie-down replacement, trailer light replacement, trailer re-wire, trailer tire replacement, boat registration, boat taxes, insurance, life jackets, fire extinguishers, tilt/trim motor replacement, boat cover replacement, boat storage fees, launch fees, enitre floor replacements, transom repairs, dock lines, anchors, jackets, safety gear, spotlights, running lights. These are just a few things I can recall offhand, from having to spend money on my boats over the years, or help friends with their boats. And I consider my last two boats pretty well maintenance free. |
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this may be a dumb question, but why do outboard boat engines cost so dang much? BTW im bout to buy a 20' 1990 Bayliner Capri that is in excellent shape for $1500 with a 150 johnson. does this sound like a deal? thanks for any help Things to check for that have not been mentioned already. Is the steering working properly? A boat that has been sitting out in the weather wihout proper lube can get the steering locked up, and it can be a real pain and expense to fix. Does it come with a trailer? If so, what is the condition of the trailer and tires? do the lights work? It does sound like a good buy, but as a clue, I am having my 17-year old 70 hp Yamaha 2-stroke rebuilt, and it is costing me $2,800. If the Johnson is not too old, it could probably be re-built, and you would have a lot of boat for not too much money. If it is good for a few years without much work that would be an awesome buy. Be wary though, that low price sounds too good to be true in my experience. |
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I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits? Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) You obviously havent owned many boats. Granted - a good quality outboard, well maintained, is going to be cheaper to own.... but the proper annual maintenance alone is more than most are prepared for... ESPECIALLY on I/O and inboards. Lower unit fluid changes, oil and filter change, winterizing fogging, prop replacements due to damage, fiberglass uh-ohs, impeller changes every 50 hours of run-time, engine damage cause by lack of impeller changes, water in lower unit requiring lower unit rebuild/replace, damage to boats caused by leaking bellows, bellows replacement, gimbal bearing re-grease, gimbal breaking replacement, trim position sensor replacement, shift cable adjustment, shift cable replacement, throttle cable lubrication and/or replacement, starter failure, alternator failure, battery replacement, carpet replacement, vinyl reupholstry, annual gel-coat oxidation removal and wax, depth finder replacement, steering cable replacement, speedometer replacement, upper cylinder compression loss due to bad cooling design, frozen block due to failure to fully drain water from block, skeg replacement, damage to boat from striking submerged stump, trailer bearing replacement, trailer bearing repacks, trailer brakes failed, trailer running board replacement, trailer tie-down replacement, trailer light replacement, trailer re-wire, trailer tire replacement, boat registration, boat taxes, insurance, life jackets, fire extinguishers, tilt/trim motor replacement, boat cover replacement, boat storage fees, launch fees, enitre floor replacements, transom repairs, dock lines, anchors, jackets, safety gear, spotlights, running lights. These are just a few things I can recall offhand, from having to spend money on my boats over the years, or help friends with their boats. And I consider my last two boats pretty well maintenance free. You my friend have the worst luck with a boat I have ever SEEN. 
I have two. A 1996 Sea Ray Sundowner (cabin cruiser) and a 1998 Bayliner Trophy 21' . (Center console) I can count the amount of repairs on a post-it. Impellers every year. (do it yourself) Oil change, tune-up every two years. Other than that, The only repairs needed is when the wife hits something. 
They consist of one prop on the Sundowner, One prop on the Trophy, a new VHF radio antenna on the Trophy. Heck, I'm still running the same tires on the Sea Ray trailer that were on it when I bought it used in 1999. There are over 900 hours on the Sundowner, probably the same on the Trophy although it does not have an hour meter. The boats get used a LOT. That said, to the OP, I would not buy that boat simply because of the engine. There are much more efficient and reliable outboards these days. My golden rule would be, don't look at anything over 5 years old. Engine or hull. |
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Take heed.
There's much more too boats than the advertisements. If you know what to look for and respect what you don't, you'll earn yourself a good boat. No matter who made it. If you don't, you'll learn much. Boating is something that everybody can learn from. Even the environmentalists. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits? Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) You obviously havent owned many boats. Granted - a good quality outboard, well maintained, is going to be cheaper to own.... but the proper annual maintenance alone is more than most are prepared for... ESPECIALLY on I/O and inboards. Lower unit fluid changes, oil and filter change, winterizing fogging, prop replacements due to damage, fiberglass uh-ohs, impeller changes every 50 hours of run-time, engine damage cause by lack of impeller changes, water in lower unit requiring lower unit rebuild/replace, damage to boats caused by leaking bellows, bellows replacement, gimbal bearing re-grease, gimbal breaking replacement, trim position sensor replacement, shift cable adjustment, shift cable replacement, throttle cable lubrication and/or replacement, starter failure, alternator failure, battery replacement, carpet replacement, vinyl reupholstry, annual gel-coat oxidation removal and wax, depth finder replacement, steering cable replacement, speedometer replacement, upper cylinder compression loss due to bad cooling design, frozen block due to failure to fully drain water from block, skeg replacement, damage to boat from striking submerged stump, trailer bearing replacement, trailer bearing repacks, trailer brakes failed, trailer running board replacement, trailer tie-down replacement, trailer light replacement, trailer re-wire, trailer tire replacement, boat registration, boat taxes, insurance, life jackets, fire extinguishers, tilt/trim motor replacement, boat cover replacement, boat storage fees, launch fees, enitre floor replacements, transom repairs, dock lines, anchors, jackets, safety gear, spotlights, running lights. These are just a few things I can recall offhand, from having to spend money on my boats over the years, or help friends with their boats. And I consider my last two boats pretty well maintenance free. You my friend have the worst luck with a boat I have ever SEEN. I have two. A 1996 Sea Ray Sundowner (cabin cruiser) and a 1998 Bayliner Trophy 21' . (Center console) I can count the amount of repairs on a post-it. Impellers every year. (do it yourself) Oil change, tune-up every two years. Other than that, The only repairs needed is when the wife hits something. They consist of one prop on the Sundowner, One prop on the Trophy, a new VHF radio antenna on the Trophy. Heck, I'm still running the same tires on the Sea Ray trailer that were on it when I bought it used in 1999. There are over 900 hours on the Sundowner, probably the same on the Trophy although it does not have an hour meter. The boats get used a LOT. That said, to the OP, I would not buy that boat simply because of the engine. There are much more efficient and reliable outboards these days. My golden rule would be, don't look at anything over 5 years old. Engine or hull. You made my point perfectly. You havent owned many boats, and yours are both quality, newer boats. The OP is looking at a much older boat, and in the Capri line, which is crappier. The saving grace it is an OMC outboard. I'd say it is more of a reading comprehension issue - than "luck" As I stated - the above is NOT from "two personal, newer boats. And you are NOT doing the correct schedule maintanence on your sundowner, not by a LONG shot.... Read the manual for the required lubrication and parts replacement. What engines/sizes? The above post was based on about 20 boats, either owned by me, or my direct family which I worked on, or close friends, over the last 25 years. Starting around 1983, mine or my direct family: 1960 15' aluminum V-hull 25HP sea king 1975 15' Galaxie tri-hull 85HP Evinrude V4 1981 15' Tidecraft Spitfire 70HP Johnson 1982 18' Glasstron Volvo 4cyl ~130HP 1984 24' SeaRay cabin cruiser 260HP Mercruiser I/O 1983 17' Tidecraft Sunfire 115HP Johnson 1990 18' SeaRay 180BR 175HP Mercruiser I/O alpha one 2002 18' SeaRay 182BR 190HP Mercruiser I/O alpha one I wont even list the friends boats that I have helped work on. |
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Check the transom for rot, and the floor for soft spots. If it has any, you will be looking at a major job of tearing out the floor, removing the foam flotation that weighs a ton because it has turned into a giant sponge, replacing the stringers and glassing in a new floor. If the transom has any rot, and it is ignored, you can be tooling down the lake and all of a sudden there will be a big hole where the engine used to be, and the boat will sink faster that you can say WTF !!!???. Any boat at that price is a good deal, but that is the cheapest part of boat ownership. Dont ask me how I know this. +1. I had an 88 capri with a cuddy and had a black max 175 on the back. It would do 73 mph on gps. But I believe the hull is only rated for 90 hp. My transome when I sold it was very "wiggly", you could grab the output shaft of the motor and yank up and down and watch the transome move quite a bit. It was not rotten, but I did not like the fact it was so weak. It the boat is transported without the motor being supported to the rear roller on the trailer there is a good chance the transome on the one you are looking at is the same. just FYI. |
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I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits? Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) You obviously havent owned many boats. Granted - a good quality outboard, well maintained, is going to be cheaper to own.... but the proper annual maintenance alone is more than most are prepared for... ESPECIALLY on I/O and inboards. Lower unit fluid changes, oil and filter change, winterizing fogging, prop replacements due to damage, fiberglass uh-ohs, impeller changes every 50 hours of run-time, engine damage cause by lack of impeller changes, water in lower unit requiring lower unit rebuild/replace, damage to boats caused by leaking bellows, bellows replacement, gimbal bearing re-grease, gimbal breaking replacement, trim position sensor replacement, shift cable adjustment, shift cable replacement, throttle cable lubrication and/or replacement, starter failure, alternator failure, battery replacement, carpet replacement, vinyl reupholstry, annual gel-coat oxidation removal and wax, depth finder replacement, steering cable replacement, speedometer replacement, upper cylinder compression loss due to bad cooling design, frozen block due to failure to fully drain water from block, skeg replacement, damage to boat from striking submerged stump, trailer bearing replacement, trailer bearing repacks, trailer brakes failed, trailer running board replacement, trailer tie-down replacement, trailer light replacement, trailer re-wire, trailer tire replacement, boat registration, boat taxes, insurance, life jackets, fire extinguishers, tilt/trim motor replacement, boat cover replacement, boat storage fees, launch fees, enitre floor replacements, transom repairs, dock lines, anchors, jackets, safety gear, spotlights, running lights. These are just a few things I can recall offhand, from having to spend money on my boats over the years, or help friends with their boats. And I consider my last two boats pretty well maintenance free. I don't have any of the problems you are talking about besides normal maintenance like a car... Only idiots being stupid or ill informed with boats are the ones that run their bills up. I have always had nautiques, no problems... |
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I don't understand all the people talking about boats being money pits? Sure you pay a big price tag up front for one depending on what brand/model you want, but after that you have insurance (which is cheap) and gas/maintenance. Other than that I can't think of anything unless you go big into watersports (wakeboarding, slalom, footing, ect...) You obviously havent owned many boats. Granted - a good quality outboard, well maintained, is going to be cheaper to own.... but the proper annual maintenance alone is more than most are prepared for... ESPECIALLY on I/O and inboards. Lower unit fluid changes, oil and filter change, winterizing fogging, prop replacements due to damage, fiberglass uh-ohs, impeller changes every 50 hours of run-time, engine damage cause by lack of impeller changes, water in lower unit requiring lower unit rebuild/replace, damage to boats caused by leaking bellows, bellows replacement, gimbal bearing re-grease, gimbal breaking replacement, trim position sensor replacement, shift cable adjustment, shift cable replacement, throttle cable lubrication and/or replacement, starter failure, alternator failure, battery replacement, carpet replacement, vinyl reupholstry, annual gel-coat oxidation removal and wax, depth finder replacement, steering cable replacement, speedometer replacement, upper cylinder compression loss due to bad cooling design, frozen block due to failure to fully drain water from block, skeg replacement, damage to boat from striking submerged stump, trailer bearing replacement, trailer bearing repacks, trailer brakes failed, trailer running board replacement, trailer tie-down replacement, trailer light replacement, trailer re-wire, trailer tire replacement, boat registration, boat taxes, insurance, life jackets, fire extinguishers, tilt/trim motor replacement, boat cover replacement, boat storage fees, launch fees, enitre floor replacements, transom repairs, dock lines, anchors, jackets, safety gear, spotlights, running lights. These are just a few things I can recall offhand, from having to spend money on my boats over the years, or help friends with their boats. And I consider my last two boats pretty well maintenance free. You my friend have the worst luck with a boat I have ever SEEN.
I have two. A 1996 Sea Ray Sundowner (cabin cruiser) and a 1998 Bayliner Trophy 21' . (Center console) I can count the amount of repairs on a post-it. Impellers every year. (do it yourself) Oil change, tune-up every two years. Other than that, The only repairs needed is when the wife hits something.
They consist of one prop on the Sundowner, One prop on the Trophy, a new VHF radio antenna on the Trophy. Heck, I'm still running the same tires on the Sea Ray trailer that were on it when I bought it used in 1999. There are over 900 hours on the Sundowner, probably the same on the Trophy although it does not have an hour meter. The boats get used a LOT. That said, to the OP, I would not buy that boat simply because of the engine. There are much more efficient and reliable outboards these days. My golden rule would be, don't look at anything over 5 years old. Engine or hull. You made my point perfectly. You havent owned many boats, and yours are both quality, newer boats. The OP is looking at a much older boat, and in the Capri line, which is crappier. The saving grace it is an OMC outboard. I'd say it is more of a reading comprehension issue - than "luck"
As I stated - the above is NOT from "two personal, newer boats. And you are NOT doing the correct schedule maintanence on your sundowner, not by a LONG shot.... Read the manual for the required lubrication and parts replacement. What engines/sizes? The above post was based on about 20 boats, either owned by me, or my direct family which I worked on, or close friends, over the last 25 years. Starting around 1983, mine or my direct family: 1960 15' aluminum V-hull 25HP sea king 1975 15' Galaxie tri-hull 85HP Evinrude V4 1981 15' Tidecraft Spitfire 70HP Johnson 1982 18' Glasstron Volvo 4cyl ~130HP 1984 24' SeaRay cabin cruiser 260HP Mercruiser I/O 1983 17' Tidecraft Sunfire 115HP Johnson 1990 18' SeaRay 180BR 175HP Mercruiser I/O alpha one 2002 18' SeaRay 182BR 190HP Mercruiser I/O alpha one I wont even list the friends boats that I have helped work on. 
You're funny. Those are two boats I own NOW. I'm 54 years old. I've owned boats since I was 19. but hey, spew your tales of woe. |
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Put the word "marine" in front of anything and the price automatically doubles. I can buy a stainless steel quicklink from one place for a certain price, yet the exact same item from a marine supply store will cost twice as much. Why is that? For the same reason things with the word "tactical" in the description double. 
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to answer the question the boat has rarely been used its been in storage for probably the pass 7 years. The reason im getting the deal is it is my uncle who is selling it to me. the floor was just replaced, and the steering seems to work fine. Me and my dad are going to replace all the fluids and flush out any left over gas. the boat comes with a trailer although the left tire will need to be replace to big deal (40 bucks maybe)...
Thanks for all the tips keep em comings - i plan on getting the maintenance up to date and just selling it, i might take it out a couple of times before school starts back up |