Posted: 1/13/2014 6:30:55 PM EDT
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Background: I'm a computer tech by trade but a jack of all trades (but master of none, except maybe repairing printers). I built my house, have restored four classic cars (2 partial, 2 frame up), and ran a small HVAC business for a while. I've always loved boats, but I've never been around them and know little to NOTHING about them.
Situation: Close friend of the family passed away about a year ago. Widow gave me his boat. It's a 1978 22' Starcraft Chieftain cuddy that was in great running condition about 2 years ago but has sat, outside, uncovered since he got sick about 2 years ago. It appears to me that most or all of the wood/carpet/padding/seats will need replaced. The console is rough along with the gauges and wiring. The motor "looks" great and the lower unit "looks" fine. Question: Is this a boat that's worth restoring? From the the little searching I've done, it appears these are an all aluminum hull and restorable. I just have no idea what I'm getting into. Thanks for any help, Dave |
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Sorry for the loss of your friend.
Boats can be structurally sound and look rough OR they can not look too bad on the surface but have multiple problems below the decks. Aluminum fuel tanks can corrode easily depending on how they're laid into the hull, flotation can be saturated and add tremendous amounts of weight to the boat. OR if you're lucky all the surface issues you can see may just be that - on the surface. If it were me i would make sure the bow is higher than the stern, pull the plug and keep it out of the weather. If after a few weeks there's no dripping water then you may be in business. I would then find a reputable boat surveyor and get a complete survey done. Might run you 2 - 3 hundred and you'll get a full report on structural and mechanical issues. From there you get estimates on refitting and make your decision. With zero dollars into the boat it most likely will be worth the investment. A proper survey is the best place to start. Good luck to you. |
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Sturdy boat, I had one.
The aluminum construction makes them a little on the light side which is good for towing, but the wood transom and flooring can be very expensive and time consuming to replace. What engine ? Mine had the inline 6 cylinder Mercruiser 165hp. Great engine but the integrated intake/exhaust manifold is a weak spot and are expensive to replace. Got any pics of the boat ? |
| You do realize that you will never get back what you put into it in $$$. Now if your one that is up for a challenge, likes to take on project for the sake of completing it and the pride of saying I did that then yes it is worth it. Plus after it's do you get to play in it on the weekends |
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The good news is it has the alum. hull. NO FIBERGLASS to deal with unless you want.
If the motor and outdrive are good, it depends on the final product you're looking for, you could put $3000 into it and have a great fishing boat. If you're looking for a head turning plush cruiser, the skys the limit. I did a complete tear down on a 16 ft alum and put $1500 into. If I went out and bought the same size with the same features at the boat show, it would be $8500 easy. The biggest issue is it being a Starcraft. This manufacture has a cult following and if you post anything about it online in a Starcraft forum, everyone will tell you it "deserves" to be brought back to showroom condition. Edit to add, if you decide to pass, im or email me, I'd be interested in driving to WV and picking it up. |
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Being in the classic car business, I definitely know the cost of restoration =/= resale value unless it's ultra rare (which this boat is not).
Basically, am I going to spend more money restoring this free boat than it would cost to buy a used one just like it that already runs. I have looked around and restoration projects run around $500-1k, "needs a little work" is $2.5-5k and beautifully restored can go as high as $10k. Keep in mind though, I've done about 2 days worth of research 
ETA: What I'm looking for is a boat that looks nice and runs reliably. I would not be attempting a factory restoration. As a matter of fact, I would be going custom from the get-go and would look to add the more modern comforts. ETAA: Thanks SamColt, he was a close friend, hunting buddy and extremely unique individual. Unfortunately, cancer found him almost 10 years ago. It's crazy when you care for someone so much yet feel relieved, in a way, to finally see the end of their suffering. |
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I did a complete tear down and rebuild of my fiberglass 1987 Cheetah 19 1/2 foot fish and ski. I had always wanted to try a boat rebuild project. Now I have a custom boat, built solid, I know it will last, and it looks good. That said I would not it again. My rebuild took 4 times longer than I thought it would. Unless a boat is your dream boat I would not recommend doing a complete rebuild. Now a free boat with a good motor and out drive is a different story if you don't mind it looking old. Replacing a plywood floor is not that big of a deal. The question is what kind of stringers does it have? If it has aluminum stringers and you need a floor that would be easy. If it has wood stringers and the floors are rotten then stringers are probably rotten and need to be replaced. Having to rebuild the stringers changes the game completely. At that point you will probably have to slip the boat in two, removing the top half from the bottom as the stringers will run about 2/3 the length of the boat.
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This is what you need to be aware of and figure out if it affects your boat. My floor was soft and rotten. When I cut it up I found that the stringers had rotten away too. Had the stringers been in good shape I could have glued new plywood down and put a layer of fiberglass over it to protect it. |
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Quoted: ETA: What I'm looking for is a boat that looks nice and runs reliably. I would not be attempting a factory restoration. As a matter of fact, I would be going custom from the get-go and would look to add the more modern comforts. I would find a used boat that fits exactly into your boating plans to do that with. If this boat does that then go for it. If you want to fix up the boat because it was free then I recommend not doing it. A free boat is usually the most expensive type of boat you can be given.
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It is an aluminum boat. No rotten stringers and such to worry about. Water logged foam flotation will be a given in a boat that age. As long as the transom is solid and the engine and drive are good you should go for it. 22 foot is much larger than most and well worth saving. Cost should not be that bad fixing this boat especially doing it yourself.
http://www.tinboats.net/forum/index.php The answers you seek can be found here. The Arfcom of tin boats. The waterlogged foam just adds excessive weight. It does not necessarily have to be torn out. Being a 22 foot boat it may not even have flotation. That is only a requirement for boats 20 ft and under. |
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Did they use a wooden transom on that boat? That would be the only other thing to check. With no stringers to fix replacing the floor and carpet is something that could be done in a couple of weekends. Repainting the boat isn't that difficult. The sanding can be tedious but the whole process is something you can do on your own. Here is a before and after picture. The paint was a 2 part Interlux Perfection that you can apply with a brush and roller.  |
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Quoted:
Did they use a wooden transom on that boat? That would be the only other thing to check. With no stringers to fix replacing the floor and carpet is something that could be done in a couple of weekends. Repainting the boat isn't that difficult. The sanding can be tedious but the whole process is something you can do on your own. Here is a before and after picture. The paint was a 2 part Interlux Perfection that you can apply with a brush and roller. http://www.afterhourtechs.com/boat/beforeafter_side.jpg His boat is aluminum, not Glass. Whole other paint process to get paint to stick to aluminum! |
| Also a very good site with a restoration section http://forums.iboats.com/forum.php |
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Quoted: His boat is aluminum, not Glass. Whole other paint process to get paint to stick to aluminum! Quoted: Quoted: Did they use a wooden transom on that boat? That would be the only other thing to check. With no stringers to fix replacing the floor and carpet is something that could be done in a couple of weekends. Repainting the boat isn't that difficult. The sanding can be tedious but the whole process is something you can do on your own. Here is a before and after picture. The paint was a 2 part Interlux Perfection that you can apply with a brush and roller. http://www.afterhourtechs.com/boat/beforeafter_side.jpg His boat is aluminum, not Glass. Whole other paint process to get paint to stick to aluminum! It's not that much different actually. Just one more step with the etch primer. This is taken from the AluminumAlloyBoats.com site. Most important thing about painting an aluminum boat is to remove the oxide layer that has formed on the metal then immediately apply your initial primer. I typically abrasive blast the boat to remove the oxide and create a profile, rinse with water, blow off with air and as soon as its thoroughly dry then asap apply interlux 6455 2 part etch primer. Over that I apply Petit Alumaprotect 2 part epoxy primer 4400/4401. Over that most any decent quality urethane topside paint like Interlux Perfection (reasonable price, pretty tough, easy to apply, etc.) or any good enamel. |
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Quoted:
His boat is aluminum, not Glass. Whole other paint process to get paint to stick to aluminum! Quoted:
Quoted:
Did they use a wooden transom on that boat? That would be the only other thing to check. With no stringers to fix replacing the floor and carpet is something that could be done in a couple of weekends. Repainting the boat isn't that difficult. The sanding can be tedious but the whole process is something you can do on your own. Here is a before and after picture. The paint was a 2 part Interlux Perfection that you can apply with a brush and roller. http://www.afterhourtechs.com/boat/beforeafter_side.jpg His boat is aluminum, not Glass. Whole other paint process to get paint to stick to aluminum! This is Arfcom, Annodize the fucker!  
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Quoted:
This is what you need to be aware of and figure out if it affects your boat. My floor was soft and rotten. When I cut it up I found that the stringers had rotten away too. Had the stringers been in good shape I could have glued new plywood down and put a layer of fiberglass over it to protect it. http://www.afterhourtechs.com/boat/rot.jpg The stringers in a Chieftan are aluminum. They are beefed up around the hold with wood to secure the engine mounts. I removed the foam flotaion in mine and left it out. That stuff just turns into a giant sponge and weighs the boat down. Hot coated all the wood and then painted over it. |
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Quoted:
It is an aluminum boat. No rotten stringers and such to worry about. Water logged foam flotation will be a given in a boat that age. As long as the transom is solid and the engine and drive are good you should go for it. 22 foot is much larger than most and well worth saving. Cost should not be that bad fixing this boat especially doing it yourself. http://www.tinboats.net/forum/index.php The answers you seek can be found here. The Arfcom of tin boats. The waterlogged foam just adds excessive weight. It does not necessarily have to be torn out. Being a 22 foot boat it may not even have flotation. That is only a requirement for boats 20 ft and under. I used that site extensively when I rebuilt mine. The biggest job was the transom, I laminated 2 3/4" pieces of plywood with 3M-5200 and the cut it to fit out of the pattern from the old rotten transom. That job almost got the best of me. I'll never do it again. |
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Here is a the perfect rebuilding thread for you. It's your exact model and will let you see what could possible be wrong and what it would take to fix it. The guy that wrote it is doing a complete strip down and rebuild. |
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Quoted:
Here she is, as is, the way I brought it home. It really is about the best boat I imagine I could have wanted (had I sought out a boat). That's my 8 year old daughter on the swim deck. She's 4'6" for scale. http://i.imgur.com/hRsdnDG.jpg That pic leaves me with some bitter tears. I had the exact same boat and loved it once it was finished, but it did take a toll on me. |
Brings back memories! We grew up owning this:
It is the 18 ft version of yours, which my Dad said he should have bought. My Mom talked him out of the larger one as she was worried what the neghbors would say of us owning a "yacht". You have a veey well built boat. Look for corriosion along the rib lines. If you did not have alot of salt water use, you should be good. If any of the wood is bad, rip it all out and start from alumiuim. Trying to save any bad wood is a waste of time. Use only marine or the best pressure treated stuff that you can find. Only stainless or brass hard ware. Engine, is basicaly chevy motor with points. Make up a run/start circuit to prevent getting stranded. The controls run along the starboard side and will be interesting to see what does work. Wiring, most likely rip it out and start fresh. You may get lucky. |
| DO NOT USE PRESSURE TREATED wood on an aluminum boat. Pressure treated wood today uses a copper solution instead of the arsenic used a few years back. Copper and aluminum do not play nice together. The pressure treated wood today will corrode the aluminum in no time and you end up with a boat full of holes. Marine grade plywood and regular lumber sealed with epoxy, spar varnish, or several other methods is the way to go now. |
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Quoted:
DO NOT USE PRESSURE TREATED wood on an aluminum boat. Pressure treated wood today uses a copper solution instead of the arsenic used a few years back. Copper and aluminum do not play nice together. The pressure treated wood today will corrode the aluminum in no time and you end up with a boat full of holes. Marine grade plywood and regular lumber sealed with epoxy, spar varnish, or several other methods is the way to go now. CRAP! good catch! I forgot about that. |
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Quoted:
DO NOT USE PRESSURE TREATED wood on an aluminum boat. Pressure treated wood today uses a copper solution instead of the arsenic used a few years back. Copper and aluminum do not play nice together. The pressure treated wood today will corrode the aluminum in no time and you end up with a boat full of holes. Marine grade plywood and regular lumber sealed with epoxy, spar varnish, or several other methods is the way to go now. I used a 1 part fibreglass resin, 3 parts reducer (MEK) and hardender to coat all wood. Soaks into the wood then flashes off, referred to as 'hot coating'. |
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Quoted:
That pic leaves me with some bitter tears. I had the exact same boat and loved it once it was finished, but it did take a toll on me. Quoted:
Quoted:
Here she is, as is, the way I brought it home. It really is about the best boat I imagine I could have wanted (had I sought out a boat). That's my 8 year old daughter on the swim deck. She's 4'6" for scale. http://i.imgur.com/hRsdnDG.jpg That pic leaves me with some bitter tears. I had the exact same boat and loved it once it was finished, but it did take a toll on me. I can tell from your pic  
The previous owners were snow birds and the boat was purchased from Florida just a few years ago so I'm assuming it's seen plenty of salt water. The trailer is much newer than the boat and I believe the boat's interior has already been redone at least once before. |