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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/24/2005 7:08:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:18:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

Men will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Not bad from a guy that didn't believe in organized religion and going to church, huh?

Tj



I finished one of the many various biographies of him recently. The more I learn about him, the smarter I think he was.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:29:29 AM EDT
And since ol' Ben has said that we now kill millions of babies each year, have an open homosexual society, high divorce rate, and whole cities that are basically crime cess pools.


All in a short span of less than 250 years.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:47:39 AM EDT
Corruption, decadence, and apathy have brought down many empires.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:49:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

Men will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Not bad from a guy that didn't believe in organized religion and going to church, huh?

Tj




Not bad at all.

“...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.” Benjamin Franklin
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:02:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
Corruption, decadence, and apathy have brought down many empires.



Corruption, decadence, and apathy lead to empire, all empires crumble.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:15:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 8:17:23 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

Men will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Not bad from a guy that didn't believe in organized religion and going to church, huh?

Tj



He was a great man, but also was not a rabid anti religionist like many today are. He had no problem with many of the founders being religious and he saw place for it. Todays lioberal would have him impeached for his words, then again todays liberal hates the fact thet the original founding fathers were very tolersnt of religion.



"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more
convincing proofs I see of this truth -- God Governs in the Affairs of
Men, And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, Is
it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"Benjamin Franklin

"He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of a
primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world"Benjamin
Franklin





Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:17:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 9:17:26 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:14:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
And since ol' Ben has said that we now kill millions of babies each year, have an open homosexual society, high divorce rate, and whole cities that are basically crime cess pools.


All in a short span of less than 250 years.



Gun laws, Imment Domain expanded, No Knock Warrants, Mandatory Prison Sentences, Patriots Act.......................

Seems he was right uh?

Tj



Bravo!! Somebody gets it!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:26:26 AM EDT
Old Ben was also the one who suggested the meetings to write the Constitution be opened with prayer to seek God's guidance since there were disagreements. It happened everyday thereafter. Not bad for a Deist who did not believe God was active in man's affairs.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:45:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
Old Ben was also the one who suggested the meetings to write the Constitution be opened with prayer to seek God's guidance since there were disagreements. It happened everyday thereafter. Not bad for a Deist who did not believe God was active in man's affairs.



There's a difference between seeing/understanding what the Creator would want us to do and the Creator actually telling us what to do.
As a Deist I can't help but think Ben was praying for the former.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:51:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 10:52:11 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:59:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By PBIR:
Corruption, decadence, and apathy have brought down many empires.



Corruption, decadence, and apathy lead to empire, all empires crumble.




True, nature of the beast called size and success I guess.

They key is holding onto it as long as one can, because that results in a longer lasting influence.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:01:56 PM EDT
I don't think he was a diest in the form of Tom Paine. From what I remember of his Autobiography he tried to live the exmple of Jesus's life. He even attended meetings at times in his life. I kinda got the feeling he couldn't find a congregation that taught what he read in the scripture. I don't recall reading any of his works questioning the Sonship of Jesus with God, but I have only read his autobiography. Still a great mind and we need more people like him in GVT today.
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