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Posted: 7/13/2004 4:28:52 PM EST
(This information also appears on the forums at subguns.com and sturmgewehr.com. I am also making it available here because I think this is an important topic that AR-15.com members will be interested in.

Thanks for your indulgence.

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems)

Hello!

I have been a long time reader of this board, but I seldom post. However, recent events have me in search of information. I wanted to see if anyone else out there has had sour dealings with Bar Kochba (BK) Botach and his company, Botach Tactical of Los Angeles, California. If you have yet to deal with this person, I hope the following recount of my own experiences will be of value to you. I have limited myself to "just the facts" as they occured, and I would be happy to provide additional information to anyone who would like to hear it. (Via E-mail)

In summary: I am a Type 01 & 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT in Tucson, Arizona. I have been in the business since 2000. Botach Tactical and its owner BK Botach took my money for a product that I ordered on behalf of a Government customer. They cashed my check immediately. I was strung along for about a year with assurances that all was well. More than a year later, I call to follow up on my order’s status and I find out that they cannot find my order. When I asked for a refund, I am given a runaround and asked to talk to ex-employees with no power to deal with my complaint. When I confronted BK (The owner) with the evidence of the transaction and asked him to make good, I was stonewalled and my calls and E-mails were subsequently “Blown-off.” The evasions continue to this very day and the problem remains.

To be fair, I have ordered samples from Botach in the past with no problems. However, the current situation, to my mind, is indicative of a pervasive negative business and ethical environment at Botach that should be of concern to all those who contemplate doing business with them.

Following, is a detailed chronological account of my interaction with Botach. I have physical copies of all documents, including checks, orders, letters and E-mails, to substantiate my claims. These copies have also been presented to Botach as evidence and they have been ignored.

Sincerely,

Jason H. Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems
9190 E. Kayenta Dr.
Tucson, AZ 85749-8647
E-mail: jason.barrett@REMOVETHISSPAMPREVENTIONbarrettarms.com

*** Botach and customer service - The whole story ****

In May, 2003 I began to look for a sample Fabrique Nationale (FN) M249 SAW on behalf of a New Mexico Marshal’s Office. They wished to see a demonstration of this weapon to evaluate it for possible purchase. I contacted several FN dealers over the next few weeks, eventually selecting Botach Tactical because of their price and because of the fact that I had ordered from them before with no problems.

Week of 05/19/2003: I contacted Botach Tactical and spoke to Ephraim Diveroli, one of their sales associates. He quoted me a price on the sample I wanted, plus proposed a deal whereby I could demo two additional guns to the same department for no charge, as long as the additional samples were returned when the demo was complete. This was an attempt for him to generate additional sales for Botach, who would of course sell the additional guns, if the demonstration was favorably received.

Week of 05/26/2003: I contacted the Red River Town Marshal in New Mexico and explained the process for the demonstrations. He wrote a Demonstration Request Letter (DRL) and forwarded it to me.

06/10/2003: I submitted via US Mail a formal order to Botach for the samples I discussed with Ephraim (As above), along with the DRL and a cashier’s check in the amount of $2,728.75 as a 50% down payment. The balance would be due when the order was ready to ship.

06/13/2003: I received an E-mail from Ephraim stating that my order was received and had been forwarded to FN for fulfillment.

06/16/2003: My certified check was cashed and deposited to the account of “BOTACH TACTICAL, a dba of BARKOCHBA BOTACH.”

Here there is a long stretch of time where I heard nothing concerning my order. This was not unexpected as Ephraim told me that FN had a production backlog and because the NFA paperwork for machineguns always takes a long time. I did speak to Ephraim once or twice during this time via telephone regarding other matters, such as current sales and promotions offered by Botach, etc.

Week of 10/06/2003: Ephraim contacted me via telephone and told me that FN required some additional documentation in order to process my order. He outlined these requirements and told me where to send the information.

10/15/2003: I forwarded the additional documentation and letters that Ephraim requested to Tausha Carter at FNH USA, Inc., the USA manufacturing subsidiary of FN.

Week of 11/10/2003: Ephraim called me and told me that my order should be ready for shipment in approximately 6-8 weeks.

Here several more months pass with no contact and no news at all. Toward the end of this period, I am becoming increasingly concerned about the status of my order.

05/2004 – Early 06/2004: I send several E-mails to both BK and Ephraim, asking for a status on my order. Eventually, the tone of my messages shifts from “When will my order ship?” to “If it will never ship, I need a refund ASAP.” None of these messages are returned.

06/15/2004: I sent another E-mail to both Ephraim and BK inquiring about the status of my order. This time, I attached a copy of my order and my check to jog their collective memory and speed their response. This E-mail gets no response from either of them.

06/16/2004: I managed to contact BK via telephone. He claimed that my E-mail of 6/15/04 (Which he did not respond to) was the first time he ever heard of my order and that “Ephraim no longer has an association with [Botach] and he made all kinds of these deals, so you will have to talk to him.” He then gave me Ephraim Diveroli’s new phone number. This was the first concrete indication I had that there was a serious problem with my order, and that the very real possibility existed that I would not get the product or my money.

Why I needed to contact Ephraim at this point was unclear to me, and BK did not adequately explain it. I assumed that he wanted me to contact Ephraim for some kind of confirmation only, as such a call would otherwise make no sense: After all, Botach cashed my check, so why would I expect an ex-employee to issue me a refund or solve my complaint—something which only Botach could accomplish? I would soon come to believe that this was the first step in BK trying to shift the blame for the situation, and its subsequent resolution, onto someone else’s doorstep.

Regardless, I contacted Ephraim on the phone as BK requested. Ephraim was surprised to hear from me. He confirmed that he no longer worked for Botach and expressed surprise that my order was never shipped. He also asked why I was calling him about this matter, to which I had no good reply. I asked Ephraim to contact BK, who he claimed to still be in contact with regarding some outstanding personal business matters between the two, to confirm my story so that I could at least get a refund of my deposit. Ephraim promised to give BK a call that same day. He also told me that BK should give me a refund with no problems, although he may stall or put the matter off. To that end, he told me that FN does not bill Botach until a product ships, so I should not fall for any stories BK might give me about “Needing to wait for a refund or credit, etc.,” before I could receive my refund. Needless to say, this implication of less than honest dealing from an ex-employee concerned me greatly. I was also troubled by Ephraim’s guarded and minimal responses to my questions about Botach’s status and business practices.

Immediately after I got off the phone, I followed up with another E-mail to BK telling him about the call. I also attached another copy of my order and cashier’s check to this E-mail. There was no response to this E-mail.

06/17/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned.

06/21/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned. I also sent an E-mail to follow up on the phone message. It was not responded to.

06/25/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned. I also sent an E-mail to follow up on the phone message. It was not responded to.

06/28/04: I again summarized my problems to Botach and requested a refund of my deposit in a final demand letter that was sent three ways (Faxed, mailed and E-mailed) to BK. This was done to avoid his habit of saying “I never got that.” Attached to each of these was a third copy of my order and check and letters, etc. I also wrote that I was getting tired of my calls not being returned, and that he had until the end of the week to make good or I would pursue formal complaints.

06/29/04: In the morning, I get an E-mail from BK saying that “You are not being ignored.” I responded with an E-mail of my own that contained a fourth copy of my order and check. This message encouraged him to finally deal with this matter so I would not have to file any complaints, which could be a headache to both of us. The fact is not lost on me that he never tried to contact me until I promised official action.

Shortly thereafter, BK calls me on the telephone. This is the first call I have received from him during this entire process. He apologized for the mix-up and said again that Ephraim was responsible and that we would have to contact him. I told him that I was not interested in pursuing that line of inquiry as it was pointless. He then said that he did not have enough information to figure out what went wrong with my purchase, and that I should send him all the information I had. (That would be the fifth time I sent him the information, which he “Never got.”)

As the evasions and equivocations continued (He told me repeatedly that he did not know what was going on, and that he never responded to me E-mails because he was a bad typist, and that he did not return my calls because he was busy, etc.) I told him “The bottom line is that your company took my order and your company cashed my check. I can get a copy of the cancelled check proving that, if you like, but either way, you need to deal with this problem yourself and quit putting it off on others.” He was silent for a few seconds and then said, “Yes, get me a copy of that check and then maybe we can settle this among ourselves.”

06/30/04: I obtain a copy of the cashed cashier’s check from my bank, Wells Fargo, showing an endorsement and payment to “PAY TO THE ORDER OF bank leumi USA ... FOR DEPOSIT ONLY, BOTACH TACTICAL, A dba OF BARKOCHBA BOTACH, ... etc.” This copy is both E-mailed and faxed to BK, alone with a cover sheet reminding him that I intend to file official complaints if I do have a refund by Friday. The fax and E-mail were not responded to.

07/07/2004. I called BK on the telephone. He said “I am on another line right now and don’t have your paperwork in front of me. As soon as I finish this call, I’ll call you right back. I have your number.” No such call was forthcoming up to the submission of this complaint.

07/08/2004: I find out in the process of filing my complaints that Botach has a bad reputation with the Southern California BBB. They have had many complaints, some of which are still outstanding. (Big surprise) Most of the complaints center around long delays in refunds and very poor service. Still no resolution in sight. I guess civil legal action is next.


*********************************­****
UPDATES TO ORIGINAL COMPLAINT *******
*******
**********************************­***


Gentlemen,

I wanted to give you all an update on my continuing interaction with Botach Tactical and BK Botach. This info is primarily copied from things posted to subguns.com, which (I am ashamed to admin) has been my primary board for the documentation of this problem.


*********************************­*******

Update: 7/9/04 @ 22:10

Gentlemen,

It is interesting to see that my little post has generated such interest within the community. I am not sure if that is good or bad... But it is heartening to see how we police our own ranks to make a safer business/collecting environment.

Anyway, I would like to give you all an update on my situation: (To make a long story short) I received a call from BK Botach this morning. Apparently, he was made aware of some of the buzz on these boards. He apologized for my situation and for the fact that I had become a pawn in whatever dispute he has with Ephraim. He finally accepted ultimate responsibility for this foul-up that was conducted in his business' name, and promised to have a full refund of my deposit, along with a separate check for over $200 to represent interest on my "loan" (He basically had my money for over a year and I never received a product), delivered to my desk via FedEx on Monday. He was perfectly courteous and professional during the conversation.

I was not born yesterday, so I will officially hold off on singing his praises until the check arrives and then clears the bank. I will keep you all posted, however, on how things turn out.

I credit the speedy and supportive response that all of you on this board have given me with the results I have (potentially) achieved today.

Thank you.

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems

*************************************

Update: 7/13/04 @ 13:35

Gentlemen,

As you will recall from my last update, I got a call from BK Botach on Friday 7/9/04. This call came on the heels of my posts about my situation on this (and other) board(s), and the intervention of a sympathetic party who has some pull with BK.

In that conversation BK said that, after further reflection, he wanted to do the right thing by me. (I personally suspect that his sudden introspection was more due to my recent attempts at putting the hot iron to his ass rather than to any newfound integrity, but I am not in a position to comment on what a man may or may not have in his heart.) He said that he was wrong to deal with the matter as he did, and that he would send me a cashier's check with a full refund via FedEx to arrive on Monday. He also said that he would include an extra check for $250 to cover my trouble and the "interest" on the unexpected loan that my money represented to Botach Tactical (As I never received any product after one year). This last part was proposed by BK himself, without any urging from me. Needless to say, I had a good start to my weekend.

Then Monday came, and so did the mail from Botach. It did include a check. However, not all was as promised: First of all, it was just a regular business check, not cashier's check. After some of the posts about rubber checks on this board, that was not encouraging. I have deposited this check and hope it clears. (On that count, I will keep you all posted.) Furthermore, in place of the additional check for the interest that was promised, there was a handwritten Post-It note from BK saying "Ephraim says he will send you the check for the interest himself." I guess this means that all is not quite right in happyland.

But I thought BK and Ephraim were not talking? Whether BK finally talked to Ephraim, and whether this is true or not, has yet to be established. I have approached Ephraim directly to corroborate this story. When I hear back from him, I will update this thread. My initial impression is that I must have been too nice to BK on the phone on Friday, and he thought he could get away with something else.

What pisses me off is that the payment of interest was HIS idea in the first place! (Even though I agree that it is entirely appropriate and should have been expected.) What kind of petty shyster can't even live up to HIS OWN ideas? Does he think that he can repair his rep with smokescreens and bull##### and that people will not talk about how his actions differ from his words? I guess not. Once I have the final word on what's what, I will take appropriate action.

If I am being lied to again, I want this #####head out of business. I urge all of you to come forward with details on your complaints against Botach. A lying, cheating weasel does not belong in our industry, making us all look bad. I think as many regulatory agencies as I can find should be put in motion to wipe this kind of crap from the face of the Earth. That is my personal opinion, and I welcome the assistance of those of you with a like mind. Getting his FFL investigated and pulled, and an audit for possible money laundering might be good places to start. If that doesn't get any traction, we could inform his potential customers and lodge complaints with his suppliers. From what I have seen, they are so sloppy that and investigation will likely turn up something.

Thanks for your continued support, and I will keep the fire burning.

Sincerely,

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems

***********************************

Update: 7/13/04 @ 12:43 (Post directed to Ephraim Diveroli)

Ephraim,

It is nice to see that you follow these boards, too. It has been far too long since we have spoken and I hope you will keep in touch. As you can gather from my previous posts, I have been more or less sympathetic to your role in my problems, as BK's subsequent actions lead me to believe that he in fact has the lion's share of the blame in the "losing" of my order and in the unprofessional and potentially illegal events that followed.

I am not sure if you have spoken to BK recently, but he left me a note yesterday mentioning that you were going to pay me the $250 in interest regarding the order that he and I have been in dispute over for this entire thread. Let me explain:

(As I have posted previously on this board) I got a call from BK on Friday 7/9/04. He said that, after further reflection, he wanted to do the right thing by me. I suspect that his sudden introspection was more due to my recent attempts at putting the hot iron to his ass rather than to any newfound integrity, but I am not in a position to comment on what a man may or may not have in his heart. Regardless of that, in that conversation BK said that he would send me a cashier's check with a full refund via FedEx to arrive on Monday. He also said that he would include an extra check for $250 to cover my trouble and the "interest" on the unexpected loan that my money represented to Botach Tactical (As I never received any product after one year).

Monday came, and so did the mail from Botach. It did include a check (A business check, not cashier's check as was promised). However, in place of the additional check for the interest, there was a handwritten Post-It note from BK saying "Ephraim says he will send you the check for the interest himself." So, I guess that means you owe me $250, right?

I am concerned about verifying this with you, since BK earlier claimed to many of us on this board that he was not in contact with you and you would not return his calls. I urge you to respond to this in public, as if BK is lying, I want it on record for all to see. I get an allergic reaction to smoke being blown up my ass, and if he is lying, I want to be sure to do my small part to see him run completed out of business.

Also, I know that you want to strike out on your own at some point and that BK's continual charges against you cannot be good for your rep, or your future business aspirations. I have personally heard BK make these charges against you, and I have heard them repeated by many others who heard it from BK:

1. You were forced to leave Botach because you were a loose cannon that made all sorts of crazy deals, without any approval. BK finally had enough of you and the problems you caused.

2. You promised a lot of people the moon and took their money, but never delivered the goods or told anyone about your deals. A lot of this money is missing and cannot be accounted for, and the implication is that you stole it.

3. When you left Botach, you ran off to Florida with some of Botach's inventory. Again, you are an embezzling crook.

These are serious charges. Given who they are coming from, I would tend to think they are either fabricated or exaggerated. However, I think it would be wise of you to come out firmly on this matter to put this crap to rest. That will need to be done at some point if you ever hope to strike out on your own, and have any customers left to sell to.

That said, I urge you to respond publicly to the version of events that BK is (Apparently) freely giving to all those around him, and to tell me when I will get my $250!

Regards,

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems

************************************

Update: 7/13/04 @ 14:46

Gentlemen,

I said I would give you an update when I heard back from Ephraim. I did, and here's what he said in an E-mail I received at 10:45 AM:

"Mr. Barrett,

Perhaps it would have been more beneficial to you had you consulted with me prior to posting this correspondance. At this point it does not surprise me that a cashiers check was not sent as I never offered any sort of intrest to anybody whatsoever with regards to this transaction, WHY WOULD I ?

Mr Botach, is obviously playing us & at this point I will resist any attempt to further involve myself in this transaction.

Best Regards,

Efraim Diveroli-VP”

*************************************­**

Update: 7/13/04 @ 14:49

Here is a copy of a message I sent to BK after I heard from Ephraim.

"BK,

What’s the problem, Amigo? I though we had this garbage all sorted out on Friday. What do I mean? I’ll be specific:

During our conversation on Friday, you said I would get a package on my desk on Monday morning containing 1.) A cashier’s check for a full refund of my deposit, and 2.) An additional check for $250 as “interest” on my loan. What I got was 1.) A personal/business check for a refund, and 2.) A Post-It Note from you saying that Ephraim decided to pay me the interest instead. Please reference the note I got back from Ephraim this morning, saying that he agreed to nothing of the sort. Well, that’s two out of three. That might be good in checkers, but it is not acceptable after all we have been through.

This means that you have lied to me again. Why you would do this now, right when we were almost square (and I daresay on cordial terms), is entirely beyond me. Did you really think that you can make conciliatory statements and promises on the one hand, and then not follow through on the other? This would have been much better had you never promised anything from the beginning. Perhaps you hadn’t considered this, but the handwritten note you sent can be excellent evidence of a verbal contract between us for the additional sum, as well as being evidence of falsehood and fraud. I had the fondest hope that this matter would have been put to bed forever on Monday. However, my allergic reaction to having smoke blown up my ass now makes that very difficult.

I also hope that check I did get clears without incident as I would just love to add a charge for felony check bouncing to my list of issues.

By the way, I have a message on my machine from the California DOJ’s Firearms Division. I just thought I’d get your thoughts before returning the call.

Regards,

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems"

Why do we tolerate people and businesses like this in our industry?

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems

****************************

T­his brings you current. I have no further responses as of this writing. I urge all of you who want to maintain an honest industry to support me in speaking out against these sorts of unethical business practices;

Sincerely,

Jason Barrett
Barrett Tactical Systems


Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:31:12 PM EST
I have never had a problem with Botach, but I guess problems are common in this industry. I have had bad problems with Lightfighter, for example.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:39:52 PM EST
That these guys are crooks isn't news, but there're always folks that are blind sided by their low price and willing to gamble, and there are those that have ordered from them and had no problems, so they vouch for Botach, despite all the indications that buyers best avoid them altogether. Not realizing that by giving them business they further help Botach stick around to do more damage to others like yourself, I'd say people that know about Botack and still buy from them are somwhat short sighted.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:40:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2004 4:42:14 PM EST by neilfj]
They have an established reputation here of accepting orders, cashing checks/charging credit cards and not having the items in stock. Reports of failures to respond to emails and being very slow in refunding money. Excessive shipping delays, pretty much everything you have run into, but more commonly with ammo purchases and accessory purchases, not the NFA stuff.

Generally speaking, they don't get as much business from people here as they could and your tale will just reinforce the statements of others.

BTW, once you get this sorted out, stick around. You'll find a number of reputable dealers here who can probably provide whatever Botach does, but honestly and reliably.

Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:44:13 PM EST
I called them to order some stuff, they did'nt have what I wanted in stock. No sale...
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:46:06 PM EST
popcorn: check!
soda: check!

an hour to waste listening to botach rants: CHECK!

Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:46:57 PM EST
I've bought quite a few things from them without any troubles. I have had problems with other online places such as tacticalshop.com, but my credit card company handled that.

David
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:48:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:49:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2004 4:50:25 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:51:20 PM EST
Botach sucks.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:52:01 PM EST
First 3 orders great, as a matter of fact sent me stuff I didn't order like a safariland 6904 tac holster for free(??)
Next 2 orders never received and had to get credit card company involved to resolve.

Basically, the suck ASS!!!
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:55:44 PM EST
Had a problem last month over a pair of Rocky 911 boots I had to special order. They had the boot listed on the site at a sale price. I ordered online, got an email a week later the boots were not in stock and would be drop shipped from the factory. I call them back a week later to re-confirm the order. Lady tells me the boots will be drop shipped from Rocky in 2-3 days.

3 weeks later, no boots. Left a couple of voice-mails, emails, finally talked to a human. Got them a week later. So, 5 weeks to get a pair of Rocky 911-126s in 10W.

Fuhgeddabowdit!
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:56:05 PM EST
Took me a long time to get my order, had to keep reminding them about it ... I finally got it, never bothered with them again ...
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 4:59:00 PM EST

O.P. by aimless:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By dizza:
I've bought quite a few things from them without any troubles. I have had problems with other online places such as tacticalshop.com, but my credit card company handled that.

David
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Is tacticalshop the place in Florida?




I think that's this shithole you are thinking of.

HS1
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:01:17 PM EST
I was attracted by their prices three times... and all three times something went wrong. They fixed it each time, but that's a 100% fuck-up rate.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:12:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:20:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By dizza:
I've bought quite a few things from them without any troubles. I have had problems with other online places such as tacticalshop.com, but my credit card company handled that.

David

Is tacticalshop the place in Florida?

This should really be posted in Feedback, not general discussion, there is a Botach Lament thread already going there, I didn't have the heart to read it.



Yes it is.

David
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:37:01 PM EST
I called them once about trying to find IMI 62s, the relaoding component, not the loaded round.

I can't explain it, but my 6th sense twitch went off.

Something was rotten in DKs neighborhood (Denmark, not Holland)I can't say what. I just decided not to do business with them
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:39:09 PM EST
Isn't anybody else wondering why the New Mexico Marshal's Office needs a couple M249/Saws? Are they having problems with Indian uprisings or something?
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:56:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By MudBug:
Isn't anybody else wondering why the New Mexico Marshal's Office needs a couple M249/Saws? Are they having problems with Indian uprisings or something?



Actually, you beat me to it. Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection for all the .gov's super secret facilities?
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 5:58:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2004 5:59:48 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By dizza:
I've bought quite a few things from them without any troubles. I have had problems with other online places such as tacticalshop.com, but my credit card company handled that.

David



I'm having trouble myself with Tacticalshop.com! My $78 dollar order is over 30 days late and they have never replied to a single email asking for an update/refund! My God, I have bad luck with online ordering. I guess its time to call the credit card company. I will never order a single item from another company online again! I swear this is it! Blackriflearmory still owes me $430 from deal in October of LAST year.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 6:15:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2004 6:15:52 PM EST by C-4]

Originally Posted By MudBug:
Isn't anybody else wondering why the New Mexico Marshal's Office needs a couple M249/Saws? Are they having problems with Indian uprisings or something?



We bitch, moan and bellyache about how they're not doing anything about the illegal immigrant problem. Finally, someone steps up to the plate and you're complaining?

Link Posted: 7/13/2004 6:42:29 PM EST
If you get your money back, good for you. I wouldn't count on any "interest", I would just be happy I got my money back.

I bought some flashlights from Botach, they delivered on time and I was happy.

If I had the same shit happen as you did, I would be pissed to, thats inexcusable and they won't be in business long screwing people like that. I will not ever do business with them again..after hearing this and other stuff like this.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 6:44:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By dizza:
I've bought quite a few things from them without any troubles. I have had problems with other online places such as tacticalshop.com, but my credit card company handled that.

David



I'm having trouble myself with Tacticalshop.com! My $78 dollar order is over 30 days late and they have never replied to a single email asking for an update/refund! My God, I have bad luck with online ordering. I guess its time to call the credit card company. I will never order a single item from another company online again! I swear this is it! Blackriflearmory still owes me $430 from deal in October of LAST year.



Go to your credit card company.. when it happened to me the credit card company had quite a few "reports" about this business. So they told me when I failed the complaint, that it was a very good chance that I'd get my money back.

David
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 10:17:12 AM EST
Glad I searched before I ordered.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 10:41:18 AM EST
I never had a problem with BOTACH. I have had major problemS with Lightfighter, however.
So I guess it all depends on your lucky number...
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 10:49:25 AM EST
I hate ordering from internet-based companies. All the companies named thus far have had problems. Big problems.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 10:53:28 AM EST
With all these problems, I have to wonder why no one has filed criminal complaints? Fraud, or maybe theft?

I know better than to deal with these guys. It's bad enough I got scorched in dealing with Sableco, but I'd never ever deal with Botach, no matter how good the price.

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 11:43:18 AM EST
I have placed several orders from Botach, and never had a problem. The last order was received in about 4 days.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:06:08 PM EST
Just ordered a Peltor Tac 6 electronic ear muffs for $79.95 from them on the net. 5 days from order to UPS was at my door. (Knock on wood)
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:50:31 PM EST
I order almost everything I buy with online stores. I've had only a few problems, all of of them have been with police supply, or gun related stores. I don't know what the deal is with these stores, but all it would take would be some better communication on their part with their clients.

a) Don't charge customers credit cards till the item ships
b) Email or call clients to advise them of backorders or out of stock items.
c) Maintain a decent consistency with shipping orders on time.

If they just worked on those 3 things, they'd have a lot better reputations, and would get more business.

David
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:57:59 PM EST
First, BOTACH is shit, period.


Moving on...


What the hell does the Red River, NM Marshal need a M249 for???

I am from NM folks....... I am having a damn hard time seeing the need.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:06:23 PM EST
Oh man the stories never end. Regardless of people who say "Well, I had no problems with them", do not order from them. Guess what, if a certain model of car gets shipped and 80% of the engines blow up on the first day, there will still be PLENTY of people who can say "Well dur, uh... there's no problem with mine! Those other people must be smoking crack!"

The longer people keep Botach in business by buying from them, the longer they will screw people in the ass.
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