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Posted: 9/21/2004 3:29:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:36:32 AM EST
Great FL back in play....
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:37:51 AM EST
Why does anyone care about this shit? Those polls don't mean a damn thing.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:46:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By ANGST:
Great FL back in play....



Well, based on the unscientific Bigfeet poll, there are a whole lot more bumperstickers for Bush than Kerry here.

Florida loves Bush!!


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:48:44 AM EST
thanks Hiram. I wish you had posted (and explained the sudden shift) about 2 hrs ago. I didn't have time to read any detail because my daughter was running late for school...I nearly spewed my coffee when I looked at this.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:56:21 AM EST
DU is gushing about what a good, scientific pollster Zogby is.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:01:30 AM EST
"DU is gushing about what a good, scientific pollster Zogby is." Do you have any evidence that Zogby is not more accurate? I've heard good things about them from BOTH parties. As a matter of fact, I have participated in many of their polls. I tend to believe a poll that gives me a realistic view, rather than an optimistic one.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:17:23 AM EST
Actually, today's result isn't a bad one at all - Bush not only carries most of the states he did in 2000, he pads his lead in several of them and adds NJ (15 votes). Meanwhile several solid Democrat states from 2000 are going wobbly in this snapshot.

With 6 weeks to the election, this isn't a bad place to be at all.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:35:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:46:51 AM EST
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:54:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 4:55:21 AM EST by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:22:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.



Yea...right!

You need to go back to HS and take another civics/ U. S. Government class. There is a perfect and logical reason for the Electoral College. You may not like the results of the electoral process...but it IS fair for the entire United States.

FYI, it prevents a few tiny, but heavily populated states and cities, such as those "Blue" areas on the map, from perpetually dominating our elections...and in the current climate, from electing socialist liberals to the presidency. This process permits the smaller, less populous states to have a say in the election. Without it, our presidents would be decided by the mob from LA, NYC, Detroit, Boston, SFO, Newark, Chicago and other like venues. How would YOU like the folks in those large metro areas to dictate who our president would be...every damn time? All the rest of us might as well stay home if that were to happen.

No way that is changing. It would disenfranchise millions of voters...and destroy our country.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:22:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 5:22:55 AM EST by Spade]

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




No, because we are a Republic, not a Democracy.

That way the country is run by it's general mood across the board, and not by Chicago, NY, and LA.

But hey, it's worked well for so long, let's scrap the whole system the founding fathers came up with!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:36:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 5:37:06 AM EST by captainpooby]
Hmmm.

Ranking of the States: State & Local Government Public Welfare Expenditures per Capita 2001-2002.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:38:45 AM EST
I ain't worried.....


45 states, and maybe California.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:38:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
Why does anyone care about this shit? Those polls don't mean a damn thing.



While we are ahead, it's a warm -n- fuzzy
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:42:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




Okay, I was wrong earlier about another newbie's posts.



THIS is the dumbist post of the day.


SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:47:58 AM EST
Looking at the two maps above, what happened to New Mexico that is has become an outpost of New England?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:48:54 AM EST
People in the rural states can't get to the polls? 100 yrs ago, ok. Now?

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:52:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




Okay, I was wrong earlier about another newbie's posts.



THIS is the dumbist post of the day.


SGtar15




Don't you have some dolls to play with?


Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:52:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 5:53:11 AM EST by GonzoAR15-1]
Mach, with all due respect, you're a moron.

The electoral college designed to protect the RESIDENTS of those states. To give them a say, so that the most populated states (i.e., California, NY, FL, etc) aren't effectively deciding the election every year -- which is what would happen without the electoral college.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:53:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 5:56:12 AM EST by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:55:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Mach, with all due respect, you're a moron.

The electoral college designed to protect the RESIDENTS of those states. To give them a say, so that the most populated states (i.e., California, NY, FL, etc) aren't effectively deciding the election every year -- which is what would happen without the electoral college.




Errr...They kinda do.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:57:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By imposter:
Looking at the two maps above, what happened to New Mexico that is has become an outpost of New England?



I dunno...maybe it's all the hippie freaks in Taos and Santa Fe....
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:58:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Mach, with all due respect, you're a moron.

The electoral college designed to protect the RESIDENTS of those states. To give them a say, so that the most populated states (i.e., California, NY, FL, etc) aren't effectively deciding the election every year -- which is what would happen without the electoral college.




Errr...They kinda do.



Not really...that's why Bush is President...
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:59:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
People in the rural states can't get to the polls? 100 yrs ago, ok. Now?



Has nothing to do with it. Just like the organization of the House and Senate small states get a disperportionate say to prevent them from being bowled over by a more populated state. You really need to review highschool civics if you are even in high school yet. We are NOT a democracy, never have been, never should be. Democracy sucks for free men. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:59:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.

Congrats! You win the dumb idea of the day award!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:01:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bigfeet:

Originally Posted By ANGST:
Great FL back in play....



Well, based on the unscientific Bigfeet poll, there are a whole lot more bumperstickers for Bush than Kerry here.

Florida loves Bush!!


Bigfeet

excellent! send your results to the major news agencies!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:28:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:56:20 AM EST
Zogby must take into account all the dead people voting Democrat.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:56:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By Mach1:
People in the rural states can't get to the polls? 100 yrs ago, ok. Now?



Has nothing to do with it. Just like the organization of the House and Senate small states get a disperportionate say to prevent them from being bowled over by a more populated state. You really need to review highschool civics if you are even in high school yet. We are NOT a democracy, never have been, never should be. Democracy sucks for free men. Planerench out.



You are correct about the House, but each state only has 2 Sinators. It's that way for a reason.


We are not a Democracy, but a Republic. IN a democracy we would suffer the "Tyrany of the majority". Look it up, it's quite important.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 7:33:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I ain't worried.....


45 states, and maybe California.


SGatr15



Which 5 states are you thinking he won't win?

Illinios, New York... ?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 7:37:42 AM EST
Why I don't like the Electoral College....


-It makes it possible to elect a president who doesn't get a popular majority.

(No, I didn't vote for Gore in 2000.)


-It creates a risk that an elector may not vote according to the will of the voters who elected him.

(Maybe they don't trust the people- I guess we might elect a new Hitler?) Sure...This country is armed to the teeth. I say the American people have the power to overthrow any radical Gov't, or President.


- It makes it very difficult for support for a third-party candidate to get recognized thus keeping out new ideas.

( My biggest peave....We need another choice! The two party system is a collective joke.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 7:45:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 7:59:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
First off.. the electoral college explicity allows for somebody to win even if they don't have the popular vote. That was the fucking intent! Second, faithless electors can be dealt with by state laws that dorce electors to vote for whomever wins the state. You clearly don't have a damn clue what you are talking about.



I think you didn't read it correctly. Read out loud if it helps you.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:17:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:22:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 8:24:15 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:24:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 8:24:27 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Methinks it's time for an old platitude:


DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A SHEEP VOTING TO DECIDE WHAT'S FOR DINNER



Your forgot the rest:

"Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:03:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
Why does anyone care about this shit? Those polls don't mean a damn thing.



True. demographics to include voter registration rolls, union membership, local economy, and the 2000 elections are all better indicastors than any polling data.



This one is weighted too heavy for polling too, but its more accurate than most.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:09:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By imposter:
what happened to New Mexico that is has become an outpost of New England?



1. Illegal immigration
2. Native American welfare mindset
3. Californian migrants
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:10:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:34:50 PM EST
The original Electoral College map is horsepuckey.

Tennessee "leaning" Bush?

Last poll we had here had Bush over Kerry by 16 points.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:39:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 4:57:02 PM EST by DWFAN]

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Mach, with all due respect, you're a moron.

The electoral college designed to protect the RESIDENTS of those states. To give them a say, so that the most populated states (i.e., California, NY, FL, etc) aren't effectively deciding the election every year -- which is what would happen without the electoral college.




Are'nt the number of electoral votes that states have based on population? Or are they fixed?

If that is true, then what's the difference. PRK will continue to grow faster then say, Idaho.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:52:51 PM EST
I thought I may have to take the day after election day off work.(In 2000, I went to bed at 3:30am, after Bush was declared, only to wake up to a question mark).


Bush and Kerry are currently TIED 48-48 in NEW JERSEY! (forget which poll)



On Nov 2nd, If New Jeresy goes red early, THB goes to bed early.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:57:08 PM EST
If not for the electoral college, blue would win. I don't want the inner city idiots winning by default simply because they procreate.
tony
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:08:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:03:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Mach, with all due respect, you're a moron.

The electoral college designed to protect the RESIDENTS of those states. To give them a say, so that the most populated states (i.e., California, NY, FL, etc) aren't effectively deciding the election every year -- which is what would happen without the electoral college.




Are'nt the number of electoral votes that states have based on population? Or are they fixed?

If that is true, then what's the difference. PRK will continue to grow faster then say, Idaho.




Something to keep in mind is that a candidate doesn't get any more votes in the electoral college if he wins a state by more than 50%.

In other words, if Kerry wins California with 51% of the popular vote in that state, he gets 55 electoral votes. If he wins with 80% of the popular vote in that state, he still gets only 55 electoral votes.

Doing away with the electoral college, would encourage politicians to try to develop super-majority support in the most populous states, while ignoring the rest of the country.

One of the many nightmare scenarios that could develop with this would be politicians lowering or even eliminating federal taxes in populous states to curry favor, while making up the difference in revenue by raising tax rates in the now "throwaway" rural states.

Sounds like a surefire way of sparking civil war to me.

The older I get, the more respect I have for the intelligence and foresight of our founding fathers.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:16:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




That's gotta be the dumbest thing I've read here. What you are asking for is liberals to win every time. City dwellers outnumber country folk in sheer numbers. They are also more likely to have disposeable time to go vote and campaign and stuff like that.

What you are talking about is pure democracy, which we are NOT. I can't remember who said it but it's true; Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Electoral college protects the rights of rural people like US (you can live on manhattan avenue and be "rural people". you know who you are. If you are on this site you likely qualify) and let liberal city folks screw you out of every God given right you can think of.

we HAVE to, repeat, HAVE to have the electoral college. I'm sure some DUMBASS like my senator Orrin "I got a killer tie at the thrift store" Hatch will try and make it a straight up majority vote but you might as well throw all your guns in a smelter and kick yourself in the balls, cause if you don't, someone else will


CBR.
(trust me, I took Poly Sci)
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:20:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.




Fuck That!!! This is not a mob rules country.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:23:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By Mach1:
They should just do away with the Electoral College, altogether.


Majority wins.... period.



Yea...right!

You need to go back to HS and take another civics/ U. S. Government class. There is a perfect and logical reason for the Electoral College. You may not like the results of the electoral process...but it IS fair for the entire United States.

FYI, it prevents a few tiny, but heavily populated states and cities, such as those "Blue" areas on the map, from perpetually dominating our elections...and in the current climate, from electing socialist liberals to the presidency. This process permits the smaller, less populous states to have a say in the election. Without it, our presidents would be decided by the mob from LA, NYC, Detroit, Boston, SFO, Newark, Chicago and other like venues. How would YOU like the folks in those large metro areas to dictate who our president would be...every damn time? All the rest of us might as well stay home if that were to happen.

No way that is changing. It would disenfranchise millions of voters...and destroy our country.



I have a question though, isn't the amount of electoral votes based on the population in the state? How do large states dominate any less now than they would if we just had a straight popular vote?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:41:31 PM EST
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