Posted: 10/11/2014 9:30:47 AM EDT
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Here is a question for people in the Automotive Service industry. Which training program would offer the best opportunity for a High School graduate? GM, Ford, Toyota-Lexus, Honda, BMW, .... Let's say we are looking for a program that is difficult and attracts top people and will result in the highest pay rates. Also, solid market share to ensure a wide availability of jobs across the country. We would want to avoid training and certification in something too narrow, that would only result in a few high paying jobs in specific locations. Edit: Thanks so much for the wealth of hard won knowledge and experience. I will do my best to pass this on to my 17 yo son. My first advice to him was along the same lines of hard work, high tool investment and low pay. But he has pursued this interest so far with a ton of energy and passion, so the only choice I have now is help steer him into the right training program. I don't have the heart to encourage him to go to accounting or law school. He clearly has the ability, as he has knocked off 8 of the ASE certs in high school by reading the study guide and taking the tests. Any guidance along the line of comparing community college programs with dealer certs to more expensive UTI type programs would be appreciated. |
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I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) |
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Quoted: I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) Same. The job isn't what it used to be. People are starting at less than I started at back in 95. FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. |
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Quoted: Down here folks go to school to learn how to work on marine diesels. They do ok. I put myself through college as an outboard mechanic, it was enjoyable but the pay was shit. I think if one really wanted to work on automotive stuff, marine power or electric power generation is the way to go. If I could go back and do it all over again, that's what I'd do. |
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Quoted: Same. The job isn't what it used to be. People are starting at less than I started at back in 95. Quoted: Quoted: I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) Same. The job isn't what it used to be. People are starting at less than I started at back in 95. FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. |
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Higher end vehicles, especially european.bmw, porsche, mb or audi . Go to a good tech school and make absolutly the most of it possible, decided which manufacture you want to go with and get any experiance they require before finishing tech school.
Other wise youll hate your life working on poor peoples piles of shit cars. Youll still ru into the ocasional pile but there much less common. They are much more difficult to repair then your average jap car, which is good because it means if your worth your salt your not a expendable employee but an asset. But you have to be good, the car has to be repaired so it looks as if nothing was done at all. My current tech used to be a lexus tech, they treated their techs as highly expendable trash. |
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FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. Quoted:
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I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. too many techs out there I suppose. |
| We're i 18 again I'd get a job changing oil at a Chevy dealership and start taking their training. The dealer will pay for your education. I've never seen a gm master tech draw unemployment. When I worked at Chevy my 2 best techs were 23 years old and making $75k per year. |
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I get by working on Volvos. I'm not rich but I'm not poor.
The pay scale is so fucked up that it is a fight to get the time you need on the job. Just say I am replacing control arm bushings. I want 4 hours and then the 4WA. By the time the car is done I might make a little bit more than time spent. If you do join the ranks of some techs out here, fix it right the first time, can't tell what has been replaced, and leave no trace of you being there then you have a big +1 to lots of guys in the feild. I see some shitty work here and there. Yesterday I had a car get towed in, fuckheads put a non-turbo engine in a turbo car......with a turbo. 
Be prepared to spend a shit ton of money on tools, messed up back, bloody fingers and burns. If YOU have a passion for problem solving then you can beat it. If you want to get rich don't fix cars. I spend most of my time with my face in a computer and fingers on a wiring diagram. Most of my time is spent thinking not replacing parts. Be prepared for that. I love it. To me each car is a fight and I don't like losing. 
When you pick out a brand to work on pick something that you have no idea how it works. Start from stratch 
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Believe it or not Heavy Equipment Technician is always in demand, I know some who with overtime made six figures in a year. Unless you work for a large dealer who has a lot of contracts to customers who rent machines. Like those in the construction part or quarries, your next bet is to work for the city or state were you reside. They don't have to work as hard as the private sector and once you pass the required probation, your in for the rest of your life. The pay might be less, but the trade off is job security. As far as training, Heavy Equipment & Bus 1800 hr Certificate from a tech school, you could learn on your own and buy some ASE books and get certified that way, some employers offer raise increases by how many ASE'S you have. It's not easy work. Like others have mentioned, be prepared to spend a ton of money on quality tools. 
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I am Fleet and Facilities Manager for a local Municipality, self taught wrenching on vehicles, heavy equipment as well as Facilities operations. Started 33 years ago as the City's only Tech and now looking to retire in about 5 more years, lots of experience. Raised 2 boys and the same wife for 30 years while providing a very nice life for all.
Dual Master ASE Certified, L1,L2 along with some other Certifications. No formal Training although I do some training and presentations. This will be long but I hope give you some good advice if you are determined that this is your career path. My oldest son graduated High school in 2005 and had determined early in school that he wanted to get in to wrenching. We talked with UTI (have a friend that teaches in Houston) and also looked at our Local Community Collage as well a Pittsburg State in Kansas. They have a very well respected 4 year Bachelors Degree in Auto Technology. I encouraged him to go the 4 year route, we were fortunate that our local Community Collage has a great Associates Degree program in Automotive Tech and 100% of the credit transferred to Pitt State. That way he could stop at two if he wanted too or complete the BS as well, he completed his 4 year and had interned with Firestone as a service adviser...... Hated it. He has been working at CarMax as a tech now for the past 4 years and really likes it, enjoys CarMax and what he does. Is now starting to enter the Management side of CarMax. In his case the advantage the 4 year degree gives him is the jump start to going into upper management on a faster track, if that is what your long term goals are. He is off to a good start and enjoys what he does. As someone who works with Techs I can tell you that should be your longer term goal, management, teaching or ownership. Something that doesn't break you physically eventually. This kind of work is hard on you physically and will beak you down at some point. My advice if you have read this far....... Go for the 4 year degree over a trade school, while nothing is wrong with being a Tech having the degree in your back pocket or toolbox may open many more opportunities for you down the road. It can be done, my son worked at Sam's Club tire and Battery and basically paid for a substantial part of his degree as well as his internship at Firestone, had minimal student debt which was paid off within a year, he also bought a very nice 2000 Corvette and paid it off quickly. Married a wonderful girl and bought his first house about a year ago so it can be done!!!!! If you can't tell I am very proud of him and what he has accomplished! Feel free to PM me if I can offer any other advice, my family has been there, done that. Best of luck and you are asking the right questions. |
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Quoted: I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) |
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The pay sucks starting out. Hell, for the apprentice I hired (and recently fired) I paid WAY above the board and it was still shit pay. Especially considering how much you need to put into tools. To do my job I have close to 150k in tools right now and I am picking up another tool today to complete a job on Monday. And continue to buy specialty and other tools to make the job go faster. The UTI or LTI or some such is going to tell you that you can make 60k plus a year. Sure. In 3-5 years you might be close. But you are going to live on Ramon noodles for those three years while you actually learn to apply the knowledge from the school to actually doing the job. While purchasing tools and getting yourself into hock with the tool trucks. Here is the real problem in the industry right now. The pay is not truly compensating you for the money you are going to spend on tools and education. So all the good techs are getting out. Meaning that the pay is reasonable for what is left. Crap techs. Hell, I just had a car come to my shop from the DEALERSHIP where on the service ticket it says "Changed oil and filter: did not reset service indicator". WTF? Not only did you do the job wrong on a simple job, you WROTE IT DOWN ON THE SERVICE TICKET? I went through 100 resumes and 10 interviews to find the apprentice I hired. And he wasn't really all that. But he was the best I could find. Sadly this doesn't really mean you can write your own paycheck if you ARE good. Typically the dealerships and high volume shops are concerned more with how many hours you bill, not how much you fuck things up. They would rather a guy send out 60 hours a week and fuck up cars left and right then 40 hours a week and not fuck anything up. So they will pay someone who is a half assed tech 17-22 bucks an hour flat rate and not pay a GOOD Master Tech 30+ an hour. Even though the Master actually has good work. He just wont be able to send as much out the door. The flip side to this is the cars are not getting less complex. They are getting more complex at an accelerated rate. Especially in the high end market like German cars. So here is what is going to happen in about 5 years. I am going to be able to charge MORE then the dealership. Because there isn't going to be anyone left in the field except for a few people who can fog a mirror. Though it is probably going to switch to two labor rates in my shop, one for general work to compete with the other mouth breather shops and one for when I have to turn wrenches and get it right, like with diag and "A" line work.
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Quoted: too many techs out there I suppose. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. too many techs out there I suppose. |
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To many shitty UTI and Wyotech grads who don't have the knowledge and skill that the dealer program grads have. I've had lots of UTI tech work for me, and he still does now and happens to be one of my best techs. However, that is not the norm.
Making a living being an auto tech isn't that bad. I did it 10 years before I took my best employee and opened our own shop. |
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there arent too many techs out there, quite the opposite really from my experience, atleast quality techs.... but thats what the industry is calling for unfortunately
if i were to do it again and actually go into this field, id go through one of the manufacturers. im a wyo tech grad from the late 90's, im in a ford dealer as a diesel master tech, and get paid very well and turn good hours. it is work though. Ford has the ASSET program, go in and come out with everything to get your senior master except your tenure. wish id of gone that route honestly. course my year in wyoming was priceless as a life experience. from my experience id offer this advice. i can and have written a ticket anywhere in this country based on my skills, knowledge and certifications with ford, meaning the diesel stuff. my opinion, and keep in mind its only really with ford, is that the cars are getting better and better, warranty repairs are going down in frequency, and maintenance schedules are getting longer. also, the independents are getting better and better and more importantly to the customer, CHEAPER. i really think that in the future, with the exception of a few, youll have two kinds of techs. low paid maintenance people, and high paid truck/diesel techs. youll always need one or two guys that can solve tough problems on regular cars, but im already seeing more "b" and "c" techs than front line guys. fleet work is really the future of of the dealerships, atleast the domestics. engine blows up in a 2014 focus, its got a long warranty, and honestly is kind of a disposable car. company has a fleet of f550 boom trucks with 150k beds on them, theyll fix that fucker till the frame rots in half, and then price a new frame. good luck, its a tough industry. its not what it was even when i started. our times get cut quarterly, tools get more expensive, never quit training, the hoops you jump through in most dealerships, the stress of being productive, its not easy(wish id of gone to law school, lol), but it can be rewarding. I work with a lot of people that have good lives and are doing just fine. |
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OP, do you enjoy turning wrenches?
If so, I wouldn't make a career out of it. Doing it for a living will kill any enthusiasm you have for building/fixing cars. I thought long and hard about turning wrenches for a living. In the end, I decided to screw up my other hobby (electronics) by making that a career. Still enjoy turning wrenches, now loathe doing anything electronics/automation related. |
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LMAO, thanks for the daily chuckle Quoted:
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Snip Other wise youll hate your life working on poor peoples piles of shit cars. Youll still ru into the ocasional pile but there much less common. LMAO, thanks for the daily chuckle Trust me, you could be having a shitty day, then you pull in someones old pile of crap with a wendys cup filled with spit and cigarette butts, trash on the floors, stains on the seats, with tons of repairs required to suspension and engine but all the customer wants in the AC to work again, and now you have to pull the dash on a car to change the evap and your laying down on carpets that haven't been vacuumed in a decade.. its goddamn depressing, and those are the moments you wonder what else you could have done with your life. then you get under the hood and everything is covered in grease because its been leaking oil for 5 years, but they just keep topping it up. they'll ask if you can take a short cut to make it cheaper. rich people (generally) don't live in squaller like that, there cars aren't nasty messes inside or under the hood, they don't want drips of oil on their garage floor, they don't have fast food packages under their seats, the cars are clean and vacuumed often. when you do good work on the car you know the owner appreciates the work you've done and is willing to pay accordingly. but you have to do the job perfectly. I went to VW school, I worked in a dealer for 2.5 years before opening my own shop. I only work on vw and audi, and I've priced my self to get rid of the losers with the trashy cars and have plenty of work coming in. is there something better I could do with my life? probably, but the grass is always greener and I make enough to make it worth my time so I can't really complain. |
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Quoted: Trust me, you could be having a shitty day, then you pull in someones old pile of crap with a wendys cup filled with spit and cigarette butts, trash on the floors, stains on the seats, with tons of repairs required to suspension and engine but all the customer wants in the AC to work again, and now you have to pull the dash on a car to change the evap and your laying down on carpets that haven't been vacuumed in a decade.. its goddamn depressing, and those are the moments you wonder what else you could have done with your life. then you get under the hood and everything is covered in grease because its been leaking oil for 5 years, but they just keep topping it up. they'll ask if you can take a short cut to make it cheaper. rich people (generally) don't live in squaller like that, there cars aren't nasty messes inside or under the hood, they don't want drips of oil on their garage floor, they don't have fast food packages under their seats, the cars are clean and vacuumed often. when you do good work on the car you know the owner appreciates the work you've done and is willing to pay accordingly. but you have to do the job perfectly. I went to VW school, I worked in a dealer for 2.5 years before opening my own shop. I only work on vw and audi, and I've priced my self to get rid of the losers with the trashy cars and have plenty of work coming in. is there something better I could do with my life? probably, but the grass is always greener and I make enough to make it worth my time so I can't really complain Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snip Other wise youll hate your life working on poor peoples piles of shit cars. Youll still ru into the ocasional pile but there much less common. LMAO, thanks for the daily chuckle Trust me, you could be having a shitty day, then you pull in someones old pile of crap with a wendys cup filled with spit and cigarette butts, trash on the floors, stains on the seats, with tons of repairs required to suspension and engine but all the customer wants in the AC to work again, and now you have to pull the dash on a car to change the evap and your laying down on carpets that haven't been vacuumed in a decade.. its goddamn depressing, and those are the moments you wonder what else you could have done with your life. then you get under the hood and everything is covered in grease because its been leaking oil for 5 years, but they just keep topping it up. they'll ask if you can take a short cut to make it cheaper. rich people (generally) don't live in squaller like that, there cars aren't nasty messes inside or under the hood, they don't want drips of oil on their garage floor, they don't have fast food packages under their seats, the cars are clean and vacuumed often. when you do good work on the car you know the owner appreciates the work you've done and is willing to pay accordingly. but you have to do the job perfectly. I went to VW school, I worked in a dealer for 2.5 years before opening my own shop. I only work on vw and audi, and I've priced my self to get rid of the losers with the trashy cars and have plenty of work coming in. is there something better I could do with my life? probably, but the grass is always greener and I make enough to make it worth my time so I can't really complain Yup. German car shop specializing in BMWs. I set the price so people with shit boxes call and typically don't come in. When they do still come in for a diag I always try to write up enough estimates so it totals more then the vehicle is worth.
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I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. This all day long. Former Auto technician, adult technical school and college auto tech program graduate who wised up after a few years of working in the field and switched careers. At least I learned how to build better hot rods in my spare time. 
ETA: Or go high end if you insist on figuring this out the hard way. |
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Same. The job isn't what it used to be. People are starting at less than I started at back in 95. FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. Quoted:
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I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I did a local Voc-Tech School......and bailed on the industry after better than 20 years. folks are willing to spend 50k+ on highly sophisticated pieces of machinery...then cheap out when it comes to maintaining and repairing it. |
| I would do diesel if I was you. I don't think theres a big demand for high end auto techs. Just think about it. There isn't many high end dealers compared to gm,ford, etc. I would choose gm or ford if I was you. Then again I wouldn't be a mechanic if I could do it all over again. |
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too many techs out there I suppose. Quoted:
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I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. too many techs out there I suppose. No..too many cheap asses. |
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Quoted: No..too many cheap asses. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would recommend a training program in another career field. Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be automotive techs. Signed, -Former automotive tech of 15 years (I went to a local tech school right out of high school, worked at independents, tire stores, and a few different dealers - I ultimately settled in with Ford and stayed there almost ten years. Knees and back don't work as well as they used to, and I've got tens of thousands of dollars in tools and equipment I'll never get back. There are easier ways to make a living, IMO.) FWIW, I do have a degree from UTI and did Ford FACT program, and have never looked for a job more than the time it takes to drive to the next place. I sling parts to heavy truck techs who make less than I did starting out with Ford in 2001. The pay scale is messed up something fierce for techs nowadays. too many techs out there I suppose. No..too many cheap asses. "You want how much for brakes? Well Brakes Plus will do it for only 99 dollars, why can't you?" "You want to charge me for a diagnosis? But autozone will do it for free! All you are doing is pulling codes it isnt hard." "I really don't think you should charge me that much for that job. I watched a youtube video on how to do it and it looks really easy."
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I too wrench for a living. I used to love working on cars to go fast when I was younger. My passion to go faster and faster is what fueled me to stick in the automotive/heavy equipment repair industry. After over 20 years of this, I actually don't like working on my own cars. I keep putting these little speaches of not becoming a mechanic to my son. I actually learned more in my high school automotive class than the US Army Tech school in Maryland. In high school I was basically rebuilding engines and transmissions. I dabbled with a few modern day fuel injection systems.
From my experience, the big money is in the heavy equipment side of the house. Especially if one works for the big name brands. A friend of mine was making 6 figures being the head technician at a Komatsu dealership. But like mentioned, the downside of the biz, is investing over $100k in tools over a career, most times one is dirty, working with a variety of chemicals so health issues later in life, etc... |