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Posted: 10/24/2004 1:28:53 PM EST
Pulled from EV.com




Here is an example of the kind of issue that might turn Ohio into Florida.. Take a look at the absentee ballot for Cuyahoga County, where Cleveland is located. Suppose you wanted to vote for George Bush. Which square would you fill in? If you picked the one I colored in green, congratulations, you just threw your vote away. The one in red is the correct choice to vote for George Bush. Blue is for Kerry. I guess that after losing her reelection bid, Palm Beach County, FL, elections supervisor Theresa LePore must have gotten a new job designing ballots in Ohio. I didn't think ballot design was rocket science. Shows you what I know.




The dems at DU are saying this will win them Ohio. Get the word out. It fucking amazes me that any one would come up with a ballot like this.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:30:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:33:33 PM EST
Is that how the ballot is presented, with the arrows pointing like that???
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:34:53 PM EST
Here in erie county the ballots are the old fill in the circle .Fill in the circle next to the name(s) you want
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:35:26 PM EST

Is that how the ballot is presented, with the arrows pointing like that???




From what I understand yes. I am thinking this was intentionally done. This from what I am reading comes from a heavily democratic area. Is the election clerk in this area a dem??
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:38:41 PM EST
jeezus..how freakin' hard is it to make a ballot? Little girls in grade school make their own and THEY don't seem to have problems with 'em

Do you like me? Check this box


Do you like Skanky Susan? Check this box

maybe we ought to turn over our ballot R&D to the 5th grade!
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:41:02 PM EST
This is going to become a shitstorm again
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:41:59 PM EST
What morons make up these ballot configurations?
You would think for a national election, all the ballots would be the same. Exactly the same.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:44:33 PM EST
WTF does a ballot to elect 3-4 groups of people need 228 itty bitty little boxes?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:46:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 1:47:01 PM EST by Airwolf]
Holy #U$OU%(&#$&$#(&$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is for real it's total and complete FRAUD. This is just as bad as any Communist or old-style dictator where it's reported that 100% of the people voted and 99% voted for the dictator in charge.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide
everything."

Attributed to Joseph Stalin
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:47:42 PM EST
That is a very suspect layout. If that's for real and was designed by Dems this is definitely trying to illegally manipulate the vote for the POTUS - if it was designed by Reps then their ignorance will bite them in the ass (ala the Dems butterfly ballot design in S. FL for the 2000 elections) and they really can't complain. My guess is it was designed by the Dems.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 1:52:29 PM EST
Republicans can probably figure this out. It is shady though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:00:34 PM EST
From DU


2" and "4" should be "12" and "14". Someone covered up the "1"s.




Who knows. I run the photo through photoshop and see if there are any signs of alteration.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:55:15 PM EST
This looks like the punch cards we use in my county in Idaho. You put the card in a guide and the guide will only let you punch the one square next to the canidate of your choice. Fo example if the guide has a hole by Bush you could only punch number 14 not number 13. The arrow by the name also points directly to the hole where you stick the stylus (punch device) so it is very difficult not to punch the right hole unless your to stupid to read your canidates name.

Paraord16
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:00:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By spm681:
From DU


2" and "4" should be "12" and "14". Someone covered up the "1"s.




Who knows. I run the photo through photoshop and see if there are any signs of alteration.



That looks like the logical explanation.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:01:12 PM EST
looks photoshopped.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:01:46 PM EST
That is very shady.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:05:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 3:05:53 PM EST by JohnnyMcEldoo]
Im guessing republican voters are a little smarter than your average democratic voter especially when you take into account the democratic party scours the ghettos threatening the people Bush will burn down your churches and enslave you if you dont vote kerry. They also have alot of the union types (der takin er jerbs!) that believe kerry wont take ther huntin guns away cuz hes a hunter and a second ammendment supporter.

But thats just my opinion
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:11:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 3:12:58 PM EST by Engineer]
My initial impression is that it is photoshopped - I believe candidates are listed in alphabetical order, as is done on the sample ballot:



My guess is that Nader was between Kerry and Peroutka.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:16:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 3:19:49 PM EST by bookertbab]
I'm in Ohio and I voted already and I don't remember my ballot looking like that. Iknow there were no colored boxes on the ballot itself. And the instruction book was something like that but I don't think it was exactly that way. Anyway as long as you read the instructions it tells you how to vote and it warns you not to try and line u the ballot with the arrows.

As long as you can read and follow instructions you will have no problem voting in ohio. If you are a retard you might have a problem.

Edit to ad, I'm not in Cuyahoga county, and they may use a differnt ballot there. Cuyahoga is where Cleveland is and is very heavy democrat. They could be trying to fool people.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:19:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
looks photoshopped.



It is...I just ran the pic through some image processing...there is an obvious discontinuity on the left side of the 2 and the 4...looks like the 1 in front of both the 2 and the 4 were photoshopped out.

JMHO...
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:20:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:23:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Engineer:
My initial impression is that it is photoshopped - I believe candidates are listed in alphabetical order, as is done on the sample ballot:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/eywong/ar15com/ohballot.jpg

My guess is that Nader was between Kerry and Peroutka.



Where are the arrows or number designations on that sample ballot?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:23:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By paenutz:
tinypic.com/ed1yv



I rest my case...thanks, paenutz...
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:25:18 PM EST
Alrighty, just dug up this news article:

www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2460394&nav=LQlCSEtg


Ballot Layout, Precinct Questions Plague BOE


Absentee voters in the most populous county of a critical state in the presidential election are complaining about a ballot layout that they say might prompt some people to choose the wrong candidate, or none at all.

Another voting issue was left in limbo for Ohioans Wednesday when a federal judge rejected Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell's latest order on how to handle people who try to vote in the wrong precinct. The dispute means election boards may receive two sets of orders as they wait for an appeals court to rule.

The absentee voting problem in Cuyahoga County occurs when voters align the ballot portion, which shows a candidate's name, a number and an arrow, with the punch card, which also bears numbers. The pieces are designed to align in the voting machines used on Election Day, but the numbers don't always line up for people voting absentee.

The elections board in the traditionally Democratic county has fielded numerous calls from voters confused about the layout of absentee ballots.

The county, which includes Cleveland , is receiving more than 2,000 requests for absentee ballots every day. Both presidential campaigns have focused on the county in a state both candidates consider crucial to what's expected to be a close election Nov. 2.

If absentee voters cast their vote by trying to line up the arrow with the punch card, they could punch the wrong number. "It's incredibly confusing," said Aaron Greenspan, a 21-year-old absentee voter from Shaker Heights . "Every day that goes by, more people are going to send in these ballots and more of them are guaranteed to be wrong."

Absentee voters are supposed to ignore the arrows and punch out the chad that matches the candidate's number, Jacqueline Maiden, a coordinator with the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections, said Wednesday.

Maiden said the same ballot system has been used for previous elections, and that officials may be getting more calls from confused voters because many people who have requested absentee ballots have never voted before. The instructions tell absentee voters to punch the corresponding number but don't specifically say to disregard the arrows.

In the statewide voting issue, U.S. District Judge James Carr of Toledo rejected an order from the secretary of state in which voters would be informed their entire ballot could be thrown out if they vote in the wrong precinct.

Carr gave Blackwell a revised order in which voters would be told that only their ballots for federal races, including the president, will be counted if they vote in the wrong place.


Election boards may soon receive both versions of the order as Ohio waits for a ruling from the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Democrats sued after Blackwell, a Republican, issued his first order last month saying voters would not be allowed to cast a vote unless they were in their correct precinct.

Blackwell says allowing voters to cast a ballot wherever they show up, even if they're not registered to vote there, is a recipe for Election Day chaos.

Democrats say the order could restrict the number of poor and minority voters, who move more often.


(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

-------------

OK, so it looks like arrows are printed on the absentee ballot that are supposed to line up with the voting machines but do not line up with the absentee ballot card. Now, given that statement, we would assume that the order of the absentee ballot would look exactly like the sample ballot, which does not look like the one provided by the Cuyahoga BOE (although the sample ballot does not show arrows).

I'll ask some of my coworkers tomorrow to see if anybody received an absentee ballot.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:26:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:27:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
tinypic.com/ed1yv



I rest my case...thanks, paenutz...




LOL, dude I inserted the 1's
But it does seem to make alot of sence when you see it.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:28:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
tinypic.com/ed1yv



paenutz has photoshopped this to add a "1".



Lake City 5.56 doesn't fragment at 3200 fps, either...right???
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:28:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
tinypic.com/ed1yv



paenutz has photoshopped this to add a "1".



Ya beat me to it.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:29:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
tinypic.com/ed1yv



I rest my case...thanks, paenutz...




LOL, dude I inserted the 1's
But it does seem to make alot of sence when you see it.



The first pic is a photochop...I thought you might have found the original pic...is there one out there??? Anyone in Ohio have one of those ballots???
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:32:32 PM EST
BTW, paenutz...your alignment is a bit off on the "12"...
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:32:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 3:34:04 PM EST by Engineer]
Just another news story - looks like those arrows are indeed on the absentee ballots .


Absentee ballot layout giving some voters fits
Thursday, October 21, 2004
By CONNIE MABIN Associated Press writer

CLEVELAND — The elections board in Ohio’s most populous county has fielded numerous calls from voters confused about the layout of absentee ballots.

The ballots are from traditionally Democratic Cuyahoga County, which is receiving more than 2,000 requests for absentee ballots every day. Both presidential campaigns have focused on the county in a state both candidates consider crucial to what’s expected to be a close election Nov. 2.

The problem occurs if voters align the ballot portion, which shows a candidate’s name, a number and an arrow, with the punch card, which also bears numbers. The numbers don’t always line up.

For example, a Cleveland Heights absentee ballot book lists the numeral six next to Democrat John Kerry’s name. If a voter tries to line up the arrow with the punch card, the number across from Kerry’s name, however, could be for another candidate or for a no vote.

It’s also possible for Republican President Bush’s name to be misaligned should an absentee voter mistakenly try to follow the arrows.


“It’s incredibly confusing,” said Aaron Greenspan, a 21-year-old absentee voter from Shaker Heights. “Every day that goes by, more people are going to send in these ballots and more of them are guaranteed to be wrong.”

Absentee voters are supposed to ignore the arrows and punch out the chad that matches the candidate’s number, Jacqueline Maiden, a coordinator with the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections, said Wednesday.

The punch cards and arrows are designed to work with machines used by people who vote in person on Election Day, she said.

“When the ballots are placed in the machines, the numbers line up with the arrows,” she said, sliding a sample ballot into a machine similar to the ones that will be used Nov. 2 to show how it lined up correctly.

The instructions tell absentee voters to punch the corresponding number but don’t specifically say to disregard the arrows. That has some voters worried, epecially because the outcome of the election is predicted to be close.

“The arrows shouldn’t be there if they want people to ignore them,” Greenspan said.

He said he got confused when he tried to line up the arrows on his ballot and realized the numbers didn’t match up. He called the elections board and a local lawmaker, who helped him understand how to correctly vote. But Greenspan said he’s worried about others who may not get help.

Many people who have requested absentee ballots have never voted before, Maiden said. She suspects that may be why so many absentee voters are confused.

The Voter Protection Program, a group sponsored by the Ohio Democratic Party, is looking into the issue, program spokesman Myron Marlin said Wednesday night.

In Cuyahoga County, more than 71,000 voters so far have asked to cast absentee ballots, nearly equaling the total from four years ago. The deadline to request a ballot is Oct. 30.

The racially diverse county of 1.4 million people expects 1 million registered voters, 160,000 of them new. Turnout is predicted to be a record 70 percent.

-------

So it looks like the "6" next to Kerry's name is legit ... unfortunately, still no way of knowing whether it's a "4" or "14" by Bush's name.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:37:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:41:48 PM EST
The arrows are on the booklets, but the instructions tell you to ignore them, and just punch out the chad at the correct number spot on the ballot.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:50:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 4:20:35 PM EST by AeroE]
[Didn't read the topic close enough]
The ballot is not laid next to the booklet, it is slid into the machine over two alignment buttons - the voter can't see which square is being punched, and they don't need to. Aligning the ballot afterwards is just dumb, the arrow only points you towards the hole where the stylus is inserted, not precisely at the square that will get punched out.

It's a disingenous attempt to stir up controversy where none exists. Again.

The only absentee ballot I ever voted was a simple paper ballot with a square to mark with an X, then the whole thing was folded, sealed, and mailed back with prepaid postage. Seems like a good plan for the new century, too.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:58:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By AeroE:
The ballot is not laid next to the booklet, it is slid into the machine over two alignment buttons - the voter can't see which square is being punched, and they don't need to. Aligning the ballot afterwards is just dumb, the arrow only points you towards the hole where the stylus is inserted, not precisely at the square that will get punched out.
It's a disingenous attempt to stir up controversy where none exists. Again.



There is no voting machine when you vote with an absentee ballot. All they send you is the booklet and the ballot itself. You do have to find the correct number on the ballot and punch out that chad.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:13:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 4:17:00 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter:
WTF does a ballot to elect 3-4 groups of people need 228 itty bitty little boxes?



You are looking at the infamous 'Punch Card' of Florida fame....

Aren't thsoe supposed to be extinct nationwide?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:34:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
uh...there are helpful folks at the precincts that will gladly explain how things work.

all you gotta do is ask.



Yeah, but these are absentee ballots - and people too dumb to read instructions will probably be too dumb to make a phone call.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 5:59:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:02:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:
BTW, paenutz...your alignment is a bit off on the "12"...



It was the color that gave it away.



What color??? The numbers look black and white to me...
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:05:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By GC456:
This is going to become a shitstorm again



No shit...I am starting to get worried.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:19:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By GC456:
This is going to become a shitstorm again



No shit...I am starting to get worried.


SGatr15



Stop it!
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