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Posted: 10/8/2004 3:02:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:05:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 3:06:27 PM EST by Ker-Pow]
Very good - I think. The whole point to the new Gortex system is the layering of clothes. It is supposed to be a shell only. They could've made them so that the old jacket liners would button into them, like the M-65. That would've been nice.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:10:32 PM EST
I have one and its super. I wear a sweat shirt under it and am quite warm. But its value is waterproof not insulation.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:14:57 PM EST
love mine. +1 on the layered concept. They cut the wind completely and don't let a drop in. I used my goretex suit (issued) in Alaska and have no complaints at all.



(and after field dressing/butchering a moose they're a helluva lot easier to clean up--get a buddy to hose you off while you're wearing it to get most of the ick off)
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:06:21 PM EST
The old style field jacket is warmer IMO. But for waterproofness the Gore-Tex is pretty outstanding. And it is warm too - just not as warm as the Field jacket. The Gore-Tex is cut to be roomy enough to wear layers underneath.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:12:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 6:15:18 PM EST by Ross]
As noted, the Gore-tex jacket is not designed to provide any insulation. It keeps wind, water, and snow off of you, and the layers that you do wear for insulation, underneath. The ECWCS replaced several different items, so now the GI only has to carry the one ensemble instead of three. It's whole purpose is to stop wind and rain, and let perspiration out.

Prior to the Gore-tex, we had the field jacket and liner, the fish-tail parka and over pants, and the wool trousers and wool shirt worn with the rain suit. Each for a separate temperature and climate type.

Now with the ECWCS you have Goretex parka and pants, fleece shirt and pants, polypro long johns.

Not only is it a reduction in weight and bulk, but it's much more effective because it's easier to stay dry and adjust your clothing for the climate. With the "cold-wet" wollies and rain-suit, you were assured of being wet from sweating. That's why they made it wool, so it would still work when wet.

You can still use the old field jacket liner with the Goretex parka, just sew some buttons on it so you can button it up and use it as a layer. (ed to add: sew the buttons on the liner, NOT the parka. Buttons on one side, and use the existing holes on the other to fasten it on you, THEN put the parka on over it.)

If you're going to get one, buy a new one. Used ones in a surplus store are there for a reason. Usually leaks, or they're worn out. When you wear a ruck, or body armor, or whatever over it, the Goretex membrane will take a beating and delaminate. Once that happens, the parka will leak like mad. Usually it happens at the wear points, shoulder, back, etc.

Also buy the newer gen one if you can. The first gen had the big hood, and that fills with snow, or rain if you had it down doing stuff, or just wearing a helmet, headset, etc. The second gen has about as good a hood, and it rolls into the collar. The first one also had a lining that would start to migrate water from the sleeves and other openings. Yeah, it took along time for it to happen, but it happens and that's why the new one doesn't have that type of lining. You'll also notice the high-dollar goretex raingear for backpackers has a net lining for the same reason.

They're great if you use them right. If you don't know what you're doing, then you'll think they suck.

Ross
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:21:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:24:47 PM EST
The old field jacket liner can be tucked into the goretex jacket for a nice medium- cold all weather combination.

I'd love to have a military goretex that was made in plain khaki, I don't usually wear any type of camouflage or BDU attire out of uniform. I like the goretex well enough to make an exception.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:18:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ross:


They're great if you use them right. If you don't know what you're doing, then you'll think they suck.



+1

I've worn the system in the field at Fort Drum in February. It works. But it is a system. The fleece undies are important. The jacket is a great windbreaker/water repeller when it's not cold enough for the fleece.

Regards,
Chris
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:29:59 PM EST
It's not the Gortex jacket that keeps you warm. It's the cool ass Fleece coat that goes under it that does the job.

Dg84
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:35:28 PM EST
layers, I love the fleece but never wore it with the gortex I just wore the poly-pros,
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:36:28 PM EST
This is a silly question but has anyone in the military actually used a poncho (as it was intended to be used) since Vietnam? When I was in I never saw one worn. We were issued them but the only time I ever used it was to wrap around other equipment. Are they still issued? Does anybody use them? Just curious.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:36:39 PM EST
what...nobody wears the field jacket liner under the shirt, instead of attaching it to the parka?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:41:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:23:43 PM EST
P38, did you use the poncho during Robin Sage because it was a good choice or because that was part of the equipment that they issued you? It's such an impractical piece of equipment. It could be turned into a Guillie (sp?) suit. But beyond that it's so restrictive and cumbersome. The wet weather gear and Goretex is so much better.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:41:07 PM EST
It always pissed me off that you never saw any range of sizes late 80's/early 90's. I always wanted one, but every time I looked, there were only S and M sizes-it was like the Soviet Union. I finally lucked out at Ft. Devens and got the only L long there (I'm 5'10", but IMO if you have a waterproof jacket, you should be able to keep your ass dry when you sit down)
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:59:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By ScoutOut:
This is a silly question but has anyone in the military actually used a poncho (as it was intended to be used) since Vietnam? When I was in I never saw one worn. We were issued them but the only time I ever used it was to wrap around other equipment. Are they still issued? Does anybody use them? Just curious.




I was a Medic, and that ment that I had to carry less gear to offset the Aid bags, I used to use the Ponch with my Woobie (the poncho liner) in place of my sleeping bag.


I still have my woobie, and now Im going to see if I can find a new Poncho!(...hint...hint...any of you active guys want to help a old medicout?)
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:14:18 AM EST
Gortex Jacket + Hamsters = Gortex Hamster nesting material!

When I was stationed in Germany I bought a Gortex jacket as soon as they were available at clothing sales. I used to hang it on the chair back of our desk chair when I got off duty. Well one day my wife was dusting the house and set our hamster cage on the floor next to my jacket. Well those little bastards pulled part of the sleeve of my brand new jacket into the cage and began chewing it up! I was out of the house at the time, but when I came home I knew something was wrong by the look on my wife's face. After she told me what happened I looked into the cage and the hamsters had a gortex/camo material nest!

Jacket was repaired with a iron on camo patch.......hamsters were looking for a new home soon after!
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:08:39 AM EST
I've been issued several different gortex jackets/pants since the mid 80s. Never wore the standard issued wet weather gear and only used the poncho between basic-AIT-jump school and SFQC. Still carry my poncho for poncho hooches and litter use. Since then been using usually the lightweight gortex even in the Alps during ski training. Layer yourself approiately and enjoy the change of seasons. Bring on the bad weather for it makes the training more challenging. I do wish I still had my early solid tan desert gortex with the reversable night pattern.

CD
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