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Posted: 4/13/2006 9:36:34 PM EST
‘Recipe for disaster’

BY MICHELLE VOLKMANN, SUN STAFF WRITER
Apr 13, 2006, 9:05 pm

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A proposed bill giving local law enforcement agencies the ability to stop, question and arrest illegal immigrants as trespassers is a "recipe for disaster," said Yuma County Sheriff Ralph Ogden.

It will create a "ripple effect" on the jail, records department, county attorney and court system, Ogden said.

"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."

Wednesday, the Senate voted 17-12 to say that people who violated federal law by entering this country without permission can be charged and convicted under state law with trespassing, whether the person was on public or private property, with or without the permission of the owner.

House members followed suit less than an hour later on a 33-27 vote. Yuma representatives were in the minority, all three voting no on the bill.

"No one along the border wants this bill," Sen. Robert Cannell, D-Yuma, said. "They have enough to do without arresting people for being here illegally. It's a bad bill and I hope it gets vetoed."

And it looks like that might happen.

Napolitano has received more than a dozen letters from law enforcement agencies and prosecutors around the state urging her to veto the measure.

"I listen very closely where law enforcement is,'' she said, according to a Capitol Media Services' article.

That widespread opposition is the reason Rep. Amanda Aguirre, D-Yuma, voted against it.

"We don't need more burden on a system that is already overwhelmed," she said.

Rep. Russ Jones, R-Yuma, said he voted no on this bill because of the financial burden it would put on counties.

"It's just not very practical," he said. "It's just an unenforceable piece of legislation. I had to vote no."

Yuma Police Chief Robby Robinson said the bill would have a "negative effect" on his department.

"I think it's going to have a tremendous impact our officers' ability to deal with aliens," he said.

Ogden sees all kinds of problems with this legislation. It "exposes the law enforcement officer in the field to greater hazards, unnecessarily drains resources at the county level and expands local law enforcement duties into unfamiliar areas," he said.

"We are less able to respond to everyday calls for service because a person is tied up with this," Ogden said. "They are just putting us in a box. It doesn't make sense. We don't have the resources, manpower, jail or courts to handle this."

The measure would make a first-time offender guilty of a misdemeanor, subject to up to six months in jail. But those who are caught a second time could end up serving up to a year in state prison, according to the Capitol Media Services report.

Every day an inmate sits in jail, it costs Yuma taxpayers $80, Ogden said.

The jail is already crowded and this legislation would compound the problem. Then Ogden would be faced with the problem of who to release from jail.

"At some point there is no more room at the inn," Ogden said. "It's a crunch situation. I don't want to get to that point."

Time also would have to be spent training officers to identify and question illegal immigrants, and the state legislation doesn't provide any shield for federal civil rights claims, Ogden said.

"The last thing we want to do is accuse people of being illegal aliens when it turns out that they are not," Ogden said.

San Luis Mayor Nieves Riedel also wrote a letter to the governor asking her to veto the bill. The San Luis Police Chief Heriberto Bejarano could not immediately be reached for comment Thursday afternoon.

Capitol Media Services contributed to this report..
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:52:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:06:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:07:24 PM EST by www-glock19-com]
I know you are a police officer and this is not directed at you (mostly chiefs sheriffs etc)
just do your fucking job , the people and the elected officals decide what needs to be done they are welcome to their personal opinion but when the put on their uniform that they wear maybe once a year and go to the state house to lobby or stand behind the gov, pres, or whoever when they sign shit into law it is a fucking joke

you enforce the law you do not write if you want to do that run for fucking office ....besides sheriff

rant off

Im just real rilled lately
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:23:23 PM EST
Thankfully their priorities are in order.

1- Arrest people for burning Mexican flags
2- shoot moms in SUVs
3- Write speeding tickets
4- Develop computerized cameras to write speeding tickets
5- Develop red light cameras



21,743,186,759,836,921­,696,192,436,3296- enforce laws against illegal invaders of this country

Maybe the highway patrol could do something other than being speed trap nannies.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:27:34 PM EST
As a police officer who works a border state, I will say i would be thrilled with a state law that allowed me to arrest illegal aliens on state charges.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:23:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
As a police officer who works a border state, I will say i would be thrilled with a state law that allowed me to arrest illegal aliens on state charges.



You could have at them if it was up to me.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:26:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.




Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:30:54 AM EST

"No one along the border wants this bill," Sen. Robert Cannell, D-Yuma, said. "They have enough to do without arresting people for being here illegally. It's a bad bill and I hope it gets vetoed."





WTF? So it is ok to arrest someone for breaking laws.....just not the laws that would be an inconvenience.


People need to think about what they are going to say before they open their mouths.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:33:53 AM EST
Waaaaaaahhh, an "unfunded obligation" to ENFORCE the law. what a pity.



*what's this handbasket thing, and where are we going again?*
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:42:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 2:43:58 AM EST by raven]
This cop in Washington said the same thing after 9/11. He said there's no way in hell they were going to even attempt to report or deport illegals. And if ordered to they'd just refuse.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:41:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlueEyedEvil:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.






Why BS? Take the jail, for instance. Start throwing a lot more bodies in the jail, exceed maximum allowed jail capacity and you have to ship out bodies as board outs to other jails that have empty beds, pay board out fees and overtime to transporting officers, etc. All this guy is saying is: "who is going to reimburse me for the added expenses?". You can bet your last dollar that the next time this guy runs for office, his opponents are going to seize on the fact that he ran X per cent over budget as a campaign issue, without explaining the context. I have seen it happen here.

And thats just the jail. You can bet that a per centage of the added costs will be OT for the arresting officers involved.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:46:15 AM EST
At least the legislators of the Great State of Arizona have some balls. Now if we can get Texas to pass the same.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:09:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:19:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By BlueEyedEvil:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.






Why BS? Take the jail, for instance. Start throwing a lot more bodies in the jail, exceed maximum allowed jail capacity and you have to ship out bodies as board outs to other jails that have empty beds, pay board out fees and overtime to transporting officers, etc. All this guy is saying is: "who is going to reimburse me for the added expenses?". You can bet your last dollar that the next time this guy runs for office, his opponents are going to seize on the fact that he ran X per cent over budget as a campaign issue, without explaining the context. I have seen it happen here.

And thats just the jail. You can bet that a per centage of the added costs will be OT for the arresting officers involved.



I'm all for the legislation, but this guy knows the money is NOT going to come fromt he state. The federal government is not going to take these illegals off his hands either. What's left? He can't caravan the lot of them across the border and kick them out.

They're going to sit and rot in his jail and he can't do anything with them because while he had to "just do his damn job" others will not and he is stuck with illegals that his office arrested and can't get rid of.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:53:29 AM EST
You’re paying for them no matter where they are. I’d rather pay for them to sit in a jail than to pay for their healthcare, their family’s healthcare, my car insurance (underinsured, uninsured), their active crime, the education of their children… Let the state put them in jail.

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:05:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 7:05:29 AM EST by fallingwrench]
So have a bus (or busses) heading to the border daily. Round the assholes up and take them to the border and hand 'em over to ins. The deportation process takes too long as it stands now. If they are not legal, ship 'em the fuck out. Not home, Just to Mexico. Let them deal with the cost.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:10:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 7:16:15 AM EST by ffsparky26]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.



Thats easy. The state needs to create and immigration inforcement law that states if you are an employer that hires illegal immigrants all of the assets associated with the immigrant worker, directly or indirectly will be seized. With no recourse to get your property back, the only affirmative defense is if the immigrants have proper papers. This is similar to how they handle illegal hunting, you seize the equipment associated with it. If the poacher wants it back he can buy it at auction.

If you have illegals that are operating your backhoe and the government finds out, we seize the truck that pulled it, the trailer, the backhoe, and and other associated equipment including the storage location and sell it at auction. The procedes fund immigration enforcement.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:18:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By tfod:
You’re paying for them no matter where they are. I’d rather pay for them to sit in a jail than to pay for their healthcare, their family’s healthcare, my car insurance (underinsured, uninsured), their active crime, the education of their children… Let the state put them in jail.




BING fuckin GO!

The most insightful comment I've yet to hear about this whole subject!
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:21:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
‘"Both for the officer on the street and the officer in the jail that will incarcerate the trespassers," Ogden said in a letter to Gov. Janet Napolitano. "This legislation represents an enormous unfunded obligation for state, county and local law enforcement ... I strongly urge you to veto this bill if it comes to your office."


In other words, who is going to compensate me for the added expenses involved. Depending on the numbers involved, he has a legitimate complaint.



Thats easy. The state needs to create and immigration inforcement law that states if you are an employer that hires illegal immigrants all of the assets associated with the immigrant worker, directly or indirectly will be seized. With no recourse to get your property back, the only affirmative defense is if the immigrants have proper papers. This is similar to how they handle illegal hunting, you seize the equipment associated with it. If the poacher wants it back he can buy it at auction.

If you have illegals that are operating your backhoe and the government finds out, we seize the truck that pulled it, the trailer, the backhoe, and and other associated equipment including the storage location and sell it at auction. The procedes fund immigration enforcement.



Isn't that the crafty way LE delt with all of the "unfair and unfunded" drug laws that were handed down from the feds? Show them $ and watch them get off their lazy asses.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:32:26 AM EST
Even considering the expenses of increased arrests, they're still admitting that the government IS NOT DOING ITS JOB.


THAT is what we need to focus on.


CMOS
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:33:01 AM EST
At least if they are locked up, preferably in those cost efficient sprawling outdoor tent city type facilities, they can't breed more anchor babies which drain the welfare system.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:02:24 AM EST
the idea is to let illegal aliens know Arizona is not welcoming you, fuck off somewhere else and leach off their state. CA comes to mind first (not meant as an insult to CA arfcommers, but you know what we mean).
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:04:18 AM EST
States are fully justified in putting the burden of enforcing the borders on the Federal Gov. CA attempted to go it alone by Prop. 187 which would have denied services to illegal aliens and it was declared unconstitutional. Right or wrong it's the Feds ball park and they'll have to do the work. They already have our money and should uphold their Constitutional oath.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:06:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By psyops4fun:
At least if they are locked up, preferably in those cost efficient sprawling outdoor tent city type facilities, they can't breed more anchor babies which drain the welfare system.


You can't lock them up forever.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:59:14 AM EST
Re-open Andersonville Prison and put them there. Bet we could fit 75,000 in that sort of open air prison.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:39:11 PM EST
Yep, just heard it on the news. Our POS governor veto'd it. Fucking bitch.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:04:24 PM EST
Send the bill for their incarceration to Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:30:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By fallingwrench:
Yep, just heard it on the news. Our POS governor veto'd it. Fucking bitch.



Aiding a foreign invasion during time of war. Nice.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:28:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By NeedMoreAmmo:

Originally Posted By fallingwrench:
Yep, just heard it on the news. Our POS governor veto'd it. Fucking bitch.



Aiding a foreign invasion during time of war. Nice.



The bitch is so confident of being re-elected that she thinks she can do anything to piss off Arizonans. I think she's wrong. I hope and pray she's wrong.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:08:07 PM EST
This is all I hear from the people interviewed for this article:

Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:24:16 PM EST

Just think of the money lost in the decrease in traffic fines. Traffic laws are way more important than federal immigration laws....
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:42:28 PM EST
They should just send them to China for slave labor so we can get cheaper stuff. The minute they start bitching about being treated fairly, well you know...
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:55:28 PM EST
Here's my plan.
The State gives a $50.00 refund to anyone who puts forth the name and address of an illegal in this state. 50 per illegal. . . . hell ou citizens would go crazy! I'd make a few thousand dollars. . .
We line em all up at tent city and have Sheriff Joe yell at them for a few hours, then we ship em all back to their country!
Win-win!
Maybe I'll run for govna . . . . .

My next plan would involve game and fish to eliminate possible illegals . . .
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:05:25 PM EST
So, if the officer likes a certain controversial law, "I'm just doing my job. I don't make the law, I just enforce it."

If the officer does not like the law, it is too much trouble, "I won't enforce it."

Or if it is and activity the officer does not like, "We need the legislature to address this issue and get us a law we can enforce."


So, we are paying tax dollars to have laws enforced. We the People want a refund.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:36:26 PM EST
You can't realistically just go and arrest ALL of the illegals for trespassing. Any fool knows it would be impossible to get them all in the jails. What it does though is give some bite to the laws that are already on the books (which are not being enforced) by sending a stronger message to these invading bastards that they are in fact law breakers. Obviously politicians don't give a rat's ass about immigration laws but it's pretty hard to ignore a legitimate 'other' offense'. Besides that, when they deport these slimebags they can have a record on them if they ever come back into the country with the same ID. But our politicians are too pussified to do anything about it.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:45:06 PM EST
Gee doing your job is hard work...

It's real hard for pilots to fly all the way to your destination, it takes a long time and it's expensive. They are gonna start only going half way.

It's real hard for cooks to prepare your meal, it takes a long time and it's expensive. They are only gonna cook it part way and leave off some side items.

It's real hard for teachers to educate your children, it takes a long time and it's expensive. They are only gonna teach them part of the curriculum and only for half days.

It's real hard for firemen to put out fires, it takes a long time and it's expensive. They are only gonna answer half the calls and will try for 15 minutes.

That sheriff should be arrested and brought up on charges. Of course so should my local sheriff.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:02:40 PM EST
Gee here's a thought, maybe if laws like this were enforced the word would get out that illegal aliens are NOT welcome here and in very short order the run on the border would end. In essence this would help the local LEO in the long run since I'm sure that a disproportional amount of crime can be directly related to illegal aliens.

Theivery would go way down, gang activety would decrease, traffic crimes/violations would also go down, I'm sure that violent crimes and DUI's would go down too.

I'm sure it would be rough at first, but once the word got out I think LEO's would find their days and especially their nights would be a whole lot easier. Besides it all has to start some where. As always this is strictly my take on the subject, you all opinions may vary....
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:05:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By CMOS:
Even considering the expenses of increased arrests, they're still admitting that the government IS NOT DOING ITS JOB.


THAT is what we need to focus on.


CMOS




+1
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:36:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By fallingwrench:
Yep, just heard it on the news. Our POS governor veto'd it. Fucking bitch.



Hope the Veto is Overridden
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:02:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By HEADACHE:
Here's my plan.
The State gives a $50.00 refund to anyone who puts forth the name and address of an illegal in this state. 50 per illegal. . . . hell ou citizens would go crazy! I'd make a few thousand dollars. . .
We line em all up at tent city and have Sheriff Joe yell at them for a few hours, then we ship em all back to their country!
Win-win!
Maybe I'll run for govna . . . . .

My next plan would involve game and fish to eliminate possible illegals . . .



Only problem is that Sheriff Joe is a friend of both Napolitano and illegals
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:35:42 PM EST
If the state can round up the leaches that would be a great thing, who gets to take out the trash?

My limited knowledge of who does what I dont believe the state can take them to the border (would be a geed theing to keep the cost down of feeding these oxygen thieves). The .Gov will not pick up the ball and get rid of them so if they can only round them up it would be a great drain on the taxpayers.

If they add something to the effect that they get deported immediatly that would be a good thing. Or put them to work building a wall having them earn thier food so to speak.

There has to be a way to take out the trash.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:40:04 PM EST
Bills to treat illegals as criminals are not a good idea. We want these people OUT OF OUR COUNTRY, not in our jails. When they are found they need to be tossed back across the border. And we need to get rid of all those frickin water stations along their routes as well.

Ideally we'd bring all our soldiers back from Korea where they are not wanted and placed on our southern border, to protect our people from Mexican military attacks as well as illegals.
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